Speculation: Let's say hypothetically this is the team next season....

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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Gotcha, UFAs only sign with rebuilding teams if they're trying to win or for other reasons. So that excludes all the options except the ones it doesn't.

I definitely see now that no UFA will ever come here unless a UFA comes here.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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May 17, 2012
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Gotcha, UFAs only sign with rebuilding teams if they're trying to win or for other reasons. So that excludes all the options except the ones it doesn't.

I definitely see now that no UFA will ever come here unless a UFA comes here.

Wait. You aren't actually suggesting that we are a better team today than we were a year ago or that we are actually rebuilding, are you? I also missed the part where we recently acquired a free agent good enough to materially change the trajectory of this team and its future. I get, however, that we signed Mike Green.

Remind me again of all of those awesome free agents that lined up in recent years to sign in Edmonton, Columbus, Carolina and Toronto. When we inevitably hit the same stage, good free agents will be avoiding us like the plague.

Rebuilding sucks. Most posters haven't figured that out yet.
 

TheOtherOne

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I don't get what you think Mike Green is. The guy plays 20 minutes per game and he leads our defensemen in points. Is that not an impact? It looks like an impact. Sounds to me like something that could easily be the difference between 18th place and 15th, at the very least, especially when we typically have like 4 teams competing for the same points percentage by the last week of the regular season.

So last year, we didn't have Mike Green, and then a Mike Green-level impact player willingly chose to sign with us.

This year, we will have plenty of money available (this is an assumption that I'm sticking with and if I end up being wrong sue me) and a Mike Green-level impact player will again choose to sign with us. He might be worse and he might be better than Mike Green, but my point is we won't know anything until we see who it is.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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May 17, 2012
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I don't get what you think Mike Green is. The guy plays 20 minutes per game and he leads our defensemen in points. Is that not an impact? It looks like an impact. Sounds to me like something that could easily be the difference between 18th place and 15th, at the very least, especially when we typically have like 4 teams competing for the same points percentage by the last week of the regular season.

So last year, we didn't have Mike Green, and then a Mike Green-level impact player willingly chose to sign with us.

This year, we will have plenty of money available (this is an assumption that I'm sticking with and if I end up being wrong sue me) and a Mike Green-level impact player will again choose to sign with us. He might be worse and he might be better than Mike Green, but my point is we won't know anything until we see who it is.

Mike Green is a good NHL defensemen with very good offensive skill. Does he make our team better? Yes. Does he fit on a top pair? No. Does he materially alter the trajectory of the team or move the needle in any significant manner? No.

Did we have a better product to sell him when he hit free agency? Yes. Have Pav, Z and Kronner declined substantially this season? Very much so. Do we now know that Franzen is done with hockey? Yes. Have Tatar, Gus and Sheahan taken significant steps forward in their development this year? No.

I guess if your standard is "we will sign a UFA" you are probably right but you haven't exactly gone out on a limb. I do not think that Ken Holland will sign any UFA that materially alters the trajectory of the team moving forward. If such a UFA hits the market this summer, he will see Detroit as a team on the verge of a rebuild and will avoid us like the plague. I am a firm believer that the only reason we have been able to sign as many UFAs as we have in the last 20 years is that we had very competitive teams to offer.
 

Bench

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Because we weren't a rebuilding team at the time we signed Green. He probably thought he was getting two seasons with Pav and that we would patch things together and continue to at least make the playoffs. It is also very possible that more competitive teams did not want him. He is far from the player he was at his peak.

I guess he worked out with Helm in the off-season and Helm had all kinds of great things to say about the Wings. So he really only negotiated with the Wings when free agency hit. Green was looking for a place he could regain that top pairing impact we saw from him in the past. Detroit was a great fit. Too bad the offense was so bad even Karlsson would struggle to score 45 points.
 

TheMule93

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May 26, 2015
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Hmm. Parayko would be my dream. He's massive, has a booming shot, and is a good two-way guy. Comparable to Weber maybe.

IDK what STL would accept for him though. Hopefully Holland makes a move to set us up in the future.
 

odin1981

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Mar 8, 2013
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Hmm. Parayko would be my dream. He's massive, has a booming shot, and is a good two-way guy. Comparable to Weber maybe.

IDK what STL would accept for him though. Hopefully Holland makes a move to set us up in the future.

He costs us at least Larkin. Or else no deal. Bare minimum.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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Does he make our team better? Yes. Does he materially alter the trajectory of the team or move the needle in any significant manner? No.

I wonder if you could say that out loud in person while keeping a straight face.

"Does ketchup improve burgers? Yes. Does ketchup make burgers better? No."
 

Ezekial

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I wouldn't put that team as a bottom 3 team at season's end but a team with an ok chance to move up to top 3 draft pick. I'd think around 7-10 region.

I wonder if you could say that out loud in person while keeping a straight face.

"Does ketchup improve burgers? Yes. Does ketchup make burgers better? No."

That's not the same as his analogy.

You can put ketchup on a burger but that doesn't turn it into a steak is what he is saying.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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I know exactly what he's saying. A team will always do the same regardless if it is better or worse. Which is rich when you back up to game number 82 and realize that a one point difference takes us out of the playoffs.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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May 17, 2012
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I know exactly what he's saying. A team will always do the same regardless if it is better or worse. Which is rich when you back up to game number 82 and realize that a one point difference takes us out of the playoffs.

Perhaps we should try to sign Jamie McGinn this offseason instead of Steven Stamkos. Both will make our team better.
 

jkutswings

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..make the line combos whatever you want. But this is the roster:

Nyquist - Larkin - Abdelkader
Tatar - Sheahan - Mantha
Pulkkinen - AA - Jurco
Helm - Glendening - Nosek

Dekeyser - Green
Smith - Marchenko
Ericsson - XO

Mrazek

Where do they finish in the standings? Am I crazy for thinking they are worse than this season, but still on the bubble and just miss the playoffs?
Honestly, that's close to a win-win scenario. Either the youngsters shatter expectations, and the team is much more successful than one would expect on paper, or they struggle as much as expected, and Detroit starts to get some high picks to (hopefully) bring in additional impact players.

My best guess? Top ten pick, but not top five, but as far as I'm concerned, standings be damned. I want to build a perennial contender at all costs, even if that means missing the playoffs several years in a row.
 

Mount Suribachi

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If this is the roster going into next year, then I will be officially and permanently supportive of Holland's tenure coming to an end. I've been very critical of him the last few years but he has a long leash (with me included) because of his many years of success.

But this 'rebuild on the fly' bull**** is just that, bull****, if the end result is a full blown rebuild. Why have we been treading water the past several years if we were heading for a full rebuild anyway?

I strongly believe that there is a way out and up from our current situation, but it's going to require an aggressive GM and serious leveraging of our large quantity of mid-above average quality prospects and young players (and even some prime pieces if needed, just not Larkin/DDK/Mrazek). I'm just not sure Holland has it in him. Because if his past half decade is any indication, he really may not. Just because he's been the GM for a very long time, doesn't mean it has to last forever. Lamoriello ain't the GM in NJ anymore.

:handclap: Bravo Ser Zermanator :handclap: Best post I've seen amongst the ocean of bull**** this board has been drowning in for months.

As I said in another thread, Holland has 3 choices

1) Swing for the fences (as proposed above). Best case, instant rebuild, new Dallas. Worst case, cripples us for a few years, leads to option 2 eventually

2) Embrace the suck, burn it down and start again

3) Do nothing. Carry on the slow and inexorable, but accelerating decline, try to address the gaping wounds with sticking plasters. Best case, may sneak into the playoffs again. Worst case, takes another 5+ years of mediocrity* before we get to option 2


* And I hate the word mediocre. It is far and away the most over used, and innapropriately used, word on this forum.
 

taliababa

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Jun 4, 2009
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* And I hate the word mediocre. It is far and away the most over used, and innapropriately used, word on this forum.

Appropriate: "of only moderate quality; not very good." Seems to me, it's the most appropriate word for this organization.
 

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