Value of: Leon Draisaitl

[ChaoticOrange]

Is this enough from NYR?

EDM trade:

Draisaitl

NYR trade:

Igor - Get a potential franchise goalie
Lundqvist - Get one of the best rated D prospects
Kravtsov- Get a RW that has top 2 lines potential
Strome - can fill 2nd or 3rd line C spot until you have better option. Has value to be traded for something else or 2nd round pick.

EDM gets 3 prospects that all rank in the top 30 for all nhl prospects overall.

For NYR

We still have Georgiev who is a solid NHLer

We can move ADA back to RD and we also just drafted Schneider. We can go Trouba, Fox, Schneider on the right side.

We have Buch and Kakko on the RW for the top 2 lines. A future of Kravtsov on the 3rd line is not maximizing his value when we have a need at C.

Also, EDM gets 3 guys on ELC who’s ready or close to ready in cracking the lineup. This is much better than say trading for draft picks who will be 3-4 years away.

It is not, no. No interest in Strome, too futures heavy.

Start with Zib and add from there.

 

[Viqsi]

until he does it long term, he is a magic bean. Or do you think our nearly PPG over his career spark plug Yamamoto straight up for PLD is a fair comparison?

No, because Yamamoto is a winger. I don't expect Edmonton to go for that kind of deal, but that doesn't excuse the sort of insulting nonsense you were throwing around.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

No, because Yamamoto is a winger. I don't expect Edmonton to go for that kind of deal, but that doesn't excuse the sort of insulting nonsense you were throwing around.

and wingers have no value? Yamamoto's done it more reliably and longer than Texier has.

The only thing that's insulting nonsense is CBJ fans thinking that PLD and Kekalainen's lunch leftovers gets them Draisaitl. Texier doesn't move the needle *at all*.

 

[Viqsi]

and wingers have no value? Yamamoto's done it more reliably and longer than Texier has.

The only thing that's insulting nonsense is CBJ fans thinking that PLD and Kekalainen's lunch leftovers gets them Draisaitl.

That proposal was not made by a Jackets fan, so kindly get over yourself.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That proposal was not made by a Jackets fan, so kindly get over yourself.

Uh, excuse me? "No matter how much anyone begs or adds" was I believe your wording. You get over yourself first, we're talking about the reigning Art Ross and Lindsay winner, and YOUR guy wants out.

If you come to us begging for Draisaitl like Oliver Twist asking for more gruel, it's gonna hurt. A lot. Throw any ideas you have about "fair value" or "pieces off the table" out the damn window.

 

[Viqsi]

Uh, excuse me? "No matter how much anyone begs or adds" was I believe your wording. You get over yourself first, we're talking about the reigning Art Ross and Lindsay winner.

Why, yes. I do believe I was responding to the idea of losing two of our best centers simultaneously. If you look really carefully, you might notice that there's not one word about how the Oilers react. Pro tip: that means that no opinion on the Oilers reaction was given. It does not mean that I think it is a win for the Oilers. It means I do not think it is acceptable to the Jackets. Trades can be lose-lose.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Why, yes. I do believe I was responding to the idea of losing two of our best centers simultaneously. If you look really carefully, you might notice that there's not one word about how the Oilers react. Pro tip: that means that no opinion on the Oilers reaction was given. It does not mean that I think it is a win for the Oilers. It means I do not think it is acceptable to the Jackets. Trades can be lose-lose.

Okay great, you're talking about the Jackets POV. From the Oilers POV, I tell Jarmo to polish up his head until I can see my face in it, and then he can take any thoughts he has about acquiring Leon Draisaitl for "fair prices" and stuff them in his favorite orifice.

Any Draisaitl - PLD trade that doesn't feature staggering and monumental adds from Columbus' side is a massive loss for the Oilers. Pieces like Texier, Foudy, that Russian guy you went way off the board for, picks - they might as well be drive through napkins for all the value they add to us.

 

[Viqsi]

Okay great, you're talking about the Jackets POV. From the Oilers POV, I tell Jarmo to polish up his head until I can see my face in it, and then he can take any thoughts he has about acquiring Leon Draisaitl for "fair prices" and stuff them in his favorite orifice.

Any Draisaitl - PLD trade that doesn't feature staggering and monumental adds from Columbus' side is a massive loss for the Oilers. Pieces like Texier, Foudy, that Russian guy you went way off the board for, picks - they might as well be drive through napkins for all the value they add to us.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[TFHockey]

Thanks for sharing.

If the shoe was on the other foot and the CBJ had Draisaitl and we had a PLD ,who was on record as wanting out of Edmonton, would you make a deal where PLD was the best piece coming to you? The season immediately after Draisaitl won the Hart, Art Ross and the Ted Lindsey?

Let's be fair about this. The Oilers would ask for the moon in a Draisaitl trade and rightfully so.

 

[Fro]

If the shoe was on the other foot and the CBJ had Draisaitl and we had a PLD ,who was on record as wanting out of Edmonton, would you make a deal where PLD was the best piece coming to you? The season immediately after Draisaitl won the Hart, Art Ross and the Ted Lindsey?

Let's be fair about this. The Oilers would ask for the moon in a Draisaitl trade and rightfully so.

Do we have McDavid too? Because for me, getting a legit #1D when thats my teams black hole, while also getting a good, young C back that has a solid chance of picking up some of the slack lost from that 2C...it doesn't sound that bad to me...

And yes, they should absolutely ask for the moon...but to call that deal insulting is crazy

 

[TFHockey]

Do we have McDavid too? Because for me, getting a legit #1D when thats my teams black hole, while also getting a good, young C back that has a solid chance of picking up some of the slack lost from that 2C...it doesn't sound that bad to me...

Sorry, what are we discussing here? I was replying to another poster.

 

[DropTheGloves]

If the shoe was on the other foot and the CBJ had Draisaitl and we had a PLD ,who was on record as wanting out of Edmonton, would you make a deal where PLD was the best piece coming to you? The season immediately after Draisaitl won the Hart, Art Ross and the Ted Lindsey?

Let's be fair about this. The Oilers would ask for the moon in a Draisaitl trade and rightfully so.

We've already seen what it looks like when the shoe is on the other foot, and it's Columbus fans demanding nothing less than a PLD clone (or more) for PLD. I don't see how in good conscience they can then turn around and claim Dubois + spare parts for Draisaitl is at all fair. It would be have to be something mammoth like PLD + Jones. Why would Edmonton consider anything less?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

We've already seen what it looks like when the shoe is on the other foot, and it's Columbus fans demanding nothing less than a PLD clone (or more) for PLD. I don't see how in good conscience they can then turn around and claim Dubois + spare parts for Draisaitl is at all fair. It would be have to be something mammoth like PLD + Jones. Why would Edmonton consider anything less?

I don't think Edmonton would consider Jones+PLD at all if I'm being honest.

Jones only has a year after this one. His next contract will be astronomical, if he even stays.

If he won't, we're looking at whatever he brings back at the next trade deadline. Is PLD+1st+2nd+prospect+warm body enough for Draisaitl? I sure don't think so. It'd be the Pronger situation all over again, set us behind even further, when we could just keep our superstar C with a great contract instead.

We have the capspace to make a big add this offseason. IMO, go all in on Hamilton, let Barrie walk. Klefbom is supposed to be back next offseason, rolling

Klefbom-Hamilton
Nurse-Bear

Would be the best D corps we've had, maybe ever.

 

[Viqsi]

If the shoe was on the other foot and the CBJ had Draisaitl and we had a PLD ,who was on record as wanting out of Edmonton, would you make a deal where PLD was the best piece coming to you? The season immediately after Draisaitl won the Hart, Art Ross and the Ted Lindsey?

Let's be fair about this. The Oilers would ask for the moon in a Draisaitl trade and rightfully so.

Perhaps you should back up a post or two where I pointed out that trades and trade proposals can be lose-lose.

 

[Viqsi]

I don't see how in good conscience they can then turn around and claim Dubois + spare parts for Draisaitl is at all fair.

That would therefore probably explain why no Jackets fan here has done that.

 

[WaW]

Draisaitl+ for Nichushkin, as per that QAnon-level-of-delusion advanced stats guy on twitter.

 

[McSuper]

Oil fans taking smack about the value of Hab players.

Sure...what happened in the last two games? How effective was Draistl?

I rather have Dubois...unless McDavid is in play.

2 game does not deflate a players value . Also fans that get a swelled head after 2 games and say they would take the raining Hart winner will sing a different tune when their team hits a rough patch . Suzuki will be so far behind Draisaitl in points by the end of the season when he looks up all he will see is Leon Draisaitl big ass .

 

[DropTheGloves]

That would therefore probably explain why no Jackets fan here has done that.

*cough*

Oh hell no. Throwing in Texier with a PLD trade is an automatic non-starter no matter how much anyone begs or adds.

 

[Fro]

That would therefore probably explain why no Jackets fan here has done that.

I haven't said they should...but I think in their center-rich situation, I would look at a Seth-centric deal...so slight caveat

 

[Viqsi]

*cough*

Please point out the part of my post where I say that that is a fair proposal for any of the parties involved.

I'll give you a hint - you can't, because it's not there and was never there.

 

[Viqsi]

I haven't said they should...but I think in their center-rich situation, I would look at a Seth-centric deal...so slight caveat

I'd agree, and I can understand why they wouldn't be happy with that either (Seth's contract situation is at least a sane worry). What I take umbrage with is this same-old same-old "you said this proposal was bad for your team, that somehow means that you think it's good for our team (despite your never saying anything of the sort and in fact explicitly noting that you don't think that way), OMG HOW DARE YOU IMPOSE THIS ON US YOU'RE SO EVIL AND UNREASONABLE". It's the same thing every single g-ddamn time with some of these people, going all the way back to when they decided for us that Ales Hemsky for Ryan Johansen was fair and got offended when we dared suggest otherwise. It's going out of one's way to claim victimization, and the only difference between whether or not that's just boneheadedness or outright trolling is basically whether or not they're actually aware of the contradiction.

 

[Phillybean]

I'm an Oilers fan and a big Draisaitl fan. I have a framed Kelowna Rocket's jersey with his signature (and the rest of the team) as the show piece in my man cave.

If the Oilers could get PLD, Jones/Werenski/One of the goalies (I'd prefer Korpisalo) for a package built around Draisaitl, I'd do it. PLD as a #2 center behind McDavid would be great, a downgrade for sure, but would still be great. Jones is an upgrade over anyone we have on the back end, and a tandem of Korpisalo/Kosk would be solid. Plugs the holes we have and IMO moves us up to the next elite tier. My worry would be pissing off McDavid by trading what I assume is a good friend, but if it makes the team better and helps them win, I don't think that matters more to him.

Drai, Larsson, Smith - PLD, Jones, Korpisalo

Edmonton gets a downgrade at C, upgrade on D and Goal
CLB gets one of the best players in the league on a great contract, locked up so he won't leave like their big stars seem to. Downgrade at Back Up, but let's Elvis grow into their starter and a downgrade on D.

RNH / McDavid / Kassian
Kahun / PLD / Yam
Ennis / Turris / Puljujarvi
Neal /Shore /Archibald

Nurse / Jones
Koekkoek / Bear
Russell / Barrie

 

[DropTheGloves]

What I take umbrage with is this same-old same-old "you said this proposal was bad for your team, that somehow means that you think it's good for our team (despite your never saying anything of the sort and in fact explicitly noting that you don't think that way), OMG HOW DARE YOU IMPOSE THIS ON US YOU'RE SO EVIL AND UNREASONABLE".

But you are being unreasonable. Just take a breath and listen for one single moment.

Let's pretend Dave Poile called up Ken Holland said he would trade Roman Josi for Darnell Nurse. What do you think Holland's reaction would be? An instantaneous yes. He'd set landspeed records driving Nurse to the airport and laugh like a supervillain all the way there and back.

But what if Poile then said wait- such a trade depended on the inclusion of Kailer Yamamoto (and Adam Larsson for salary purposes)?

Let's look at the facts:

-The Oilers are weak on the wing and tight against the cap.
-Yamamoto is producing at an unusually high clip given his age and draft position. It's probably not sustainable but hey Edmonton eneds the depth scoring so they'll take it.
-The Oilers don't have another Yamamoto further down the lineup, and wouldn't immediately have a player available who could fill the hole trading him creates.

Would the Oilers still do that trade? f***ING YES.

You see, some trades are so good, and improve your team so much, that it doesn't matter what immediate holes they create. You will not find another Roman Josi anywhere, and no one else would be sane enough to trade you one for so comparatively little. That player will have a greater impact on the game by virtue of his usage and position than Yamamoto will, even if it means Holland has to then go out and find another second line winger. He can get one for less than the immense difference in value between Nurse + Yamamoto and Josi.

A Texier + PLD for Draisaitl proposal is the same thing. It doesn't matter if you don't have another Texier right now in your system or on your team, because middle six centers are so much easier to find than Hart/Art Ross/etc. winners. That isn't up for debate, no matter how attached emotionally to the player you might be.

However, what you're proposing is that Holland not only hang up on Poile, but block him on FB/IG/Twitter and take out a restraining order. So no, you're not being reasonable. End of story.

It's the same thing every single g-ddamn time with some of these people, going all the way back to when they decided for us that Ales Hemsky for Ryan Johansen was fair and got offended when we dared suggest otherwise. It's going out of one's way to claim victimization, and the only difference between whether or not that's just boneheadedness or outright trolling is basically whether or not they're actually aware of the contradiction.

I would suggest that someone who is mad about a trade proposal I think I read on an Oilers fan/blog site like ten years ago is the one partaking in victimhood, but that's just me. Do you have any more recent examples of Oiler fans being "offended" by your behavior, or just that one from antiquity?

 

[Viqsi]

You see, some trades are so good, and improve your team so much, that it doesn't matter what immediate holes they create.

Wrong. Because the holes they create mean that you end up with a net loss to your team. And when your team is put in that desperation position, GMs recognize you as a fool and start ripping you off whenever you attempt any improvement at all.

And even then, that doesn't say a single g-ddamned thing about whether or not it's a good idea for the Oilers, which is what y'all were screaming at me for. You're taking it as a blood insult that I don't think your superstar overrides every possible consideration about team building, and then calling me the unreasonable one - never mind the fact that we have a handy existence proof that he's not able to do that for the team he's presently on with the help of another superstar, let alone singlehandedly.

Draisaitl is f***ing awesome. He's one of the best players in the game of hockey. But this isn't the NBA. You need more than just superstars.

 

[DropTheGloves]

Wrong. Because the holes they create mean that you end up with a net loss to your team. And when your team is put in that desperation position, GMs recognize you as a fool and start ripping you off whenever you attempt any improvement at all.

GMs don't care. This isn't trading Pokemon cards during Recess. If you have assets that another team feels will improve their team, do you really believe they're going to say no just because you improved your team massively? I mean, I can speak from my experience as an Oilers fan and tell you that Kevin Lowe had no problem making trades even after acquiring Chris Pronger for the hockey equivalent of pocket lint back in 2006. In fact, it probably made it easier, since players wanted to play on a team with Chris Pronger. GMs certainly didn't collude to shut him out of the trade market.

And even then, that doesn't say a single g-ddamned thing about whether or not it's a good idea for the Oilers, which is what y'all were screaming at me for.

Not me. Or are you not reading what I'm saying?

You're taking it as a blood insult that I don't think your superstar overrides every possible consideration about team building, and then calling me the unreasonable one - never mind the fact that we have a handy existence proof that he's not able to do that for the team he's presently on with the help of another superstar, let alone singlehandedly.

Well no, I don't take it as a "blood insult", whatever that is. And I'm not talking about "every possible consideration about team building"- I'm talking about one specific player at one specific position. The Jackets go from PLD-Domi-Texier down the middle to Draisaitl-Domi-?. They are an infinitely better team after that deal, especially since 3Cs can be rented at the deadline all the live long day.

Draisaitl is f***ing awesome. He's one of the best players in the game of hockey. But this isn't the NBA. You need more than just superstars.

But it starts with a superstar more often than not. There's a reason Kucherov/Hedman/Stamkos, Ovechkin, Crosby/Malkin all have their name on the Cup- it's because they're f***ing awesome at hockey.