Leo Komarov

[Daisy Jane]

Sad that despite 100 years of history we still haven't learned when to properly cash out on a fan favorite.

Komarov is a good but not great player yet may bring back a great return.

Players like him play a style that results in them slowing down over time due to wear and tear.

History tells me that the point when people want him moved the least is probably the smartest time to move him as that's when we maximize the return on the asset.

Bingo.

like - honestly, I like Komarov very much. he's done better that I thought he would have when he signed that contract (even considering his whiplash/concussion last season). he has a lot of attributes that make him a lockerroom favourite (which is important) and he does have the language thing going on.

but i mean - most NHL places as far as I know, really want "English only." which is why MOST european players pretty much find a translator/ESL instructor right away.

like again I'm sorry if we're being offered a first rounder + (or like Samsonov etc + or something like that) - you go. YES. thank you. Please deliver to Bay Street. We'll drop Leo off at the airport.

then - in July - you look at the people you can get that brings in that leadership ability, or that "good people" mentality - acknowledge you probably lost the language thing, but maybe you get more goals, or more. playoff experience, SOMETHING. I don't know - and you move on.

like yes. maybe this sounds like a "we need all the draft picks!" but I'm fine with whatever (overpaid) package someone wants to overpay for someone who will more than likely not be on the first line as early as next year. And - who will more than likely NOT BE on this team by the time his contract is over.

 

[mikebel111*]

This is getting silly. I love Komarov as much as the next guy, but if a team offers a top 25 pick, he is gone for me.

 

[ACC1224]

This is getting silly. I love Komarov as much as the next guy, but if a team offers a top 25 pick, he is gone for me.

Yep, absolutely

 

[Drew75]

Bingo.

like - honestly, I like Komarov very much. he's done better that I thought he would have when he signed that contract (even considering his whiplash/concussion last season). he has a lot of attributes that make him a lockerroom favourite (which is important) and he does have the language thing going on.

but i mean - most NHL places as far as I know, really want "English only." which is why MOST european players pretty much find a translator/ESL instructor right away.

like again I'm sorry if we're being offered a first rounder + (or like Samsonov etc + or something like that) - you go. YES. thank you. Please deliver to Bay Street. We'll drop Leo off at the airport.

then - in July - you look at the people you can get that brings in that leadership ability, or that "good people" mentality - acknowledge you probably lost the language thing, but maybe you get more goals, or more. playoff experience, SOMETHING. I don't know - and you move on.

like yes. maybe this sounds like a "we need all the draft picks!" but I'm fine with whatever (overpaid) package someone wants to overpay for someone who will more than likely not be on the first line as early as next year. And - who will more than likely NOT BE on this team by the time his contract is over.

It seems like the vast majority here all agree that for the right deal, you move Leo, the point of contention seems to be more around 'what IS the price' that makes the return more valuable than the man?

I'm with you 100% on a 1st + .... take it an run. Where I'm not totally sold is moving him for a 1st (25-30 range) only.

Yes, you can easily replace what he brings on the ice, and yes, there are other 'character' guys out there - I'm not sold that it is so easy to replace a guy who so prototypically exemplifies what it should mean to be a Maple Leaf - and to do so for less than $3mil cap hit.

Here's my question - who, in the league - would truly represent what it should mean to be a Maple Leaf? I'm not referring to scoring, etc, but the desire, work effort, willingness to sacrifice, experience, etc. The language thing, in my mind, is a huge bonus due to the number of Russian and European kids we seem to be bringing into the organization ... but can we at least replace the rest?

Personally, looking through our teams lineup, I don't see anyone else really representing what I think it should mean to be a Leaf more than Leo does.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It seems like the vast majority here all agree that for the right deal, you move Leo, the point of contention seems to be more around 'what IS the price' that makes the return more valuable than the man?

I'm with you 100% on a 1st + .... take it an run. Where I'm not totally sold is moving him for a 1st (25-30 range) only.

and why? why not. 25-30. is still 1 more shot at choosing someone really special. Like I said - a lot of people I feel so wrapped up in 'well it's just a late 1st" or "it's just a 2nd" or it's "only a 4th."

Let Mark Hunter etc, do his job. get someone really great. (or - if it's prospects - trust the scouting/Lou to think this guy is great).

I am dead serious here. It would be one thing if Komarov had like 4-5 years left and not as old as he is. (and before anyone says anything - everyone knows that I am not against signing or trading for older players north for support as long as they can continue to contribute). but with the physical way that Leo plays - and how the team will be - i'd firmly look to see who on the Marlies could be "Leo"-ish.

It's Leo. Komarov.

Yes, you can easily replace what he brings on the ice, and yes, there are other 'character' guys out there - I'm not sold that it is so easy to replace a guy who so prototypically exemplifies what it should mean to be a Maple Leaf - and to do so for less than $3mil cap hit.

and. so. what are you doing in two years? are you going to keep on paying him 3 million ++ so he can continue to be a Maple Leaf? I personally don't that is mattering as much as people are making it out to be. Case in point - the way they are going on about Dion - he is exactly what it is like to be a Maple Leaf. Hunwick is what it is like to be a Maple Leaf.

do you see my point?
the "cost" means nothing really if they're doing what you need them to do.
and everyone can be had at a price.

We could sign Stamkos and HE could be what it means to be a Maple Leaf to touch on your next point:

Here's my question - who, in the league - would truly represent what it should mean to be a Maple Leaf? I'm not referring to scoring, etc, but the desire, work effort, willingness to sacrifice, experience, etc. The language thing, in my mind, is a huge bonus due to the number of Russian and European kids we seem to be bringing into the organization ... but can we at least replace the rest?

A: the language thing is such a copout i feel. like.
1: if it's learning a new language. it's Toronto. We've GOT language schools
2: the Euro-Russian kids are coming up together so they've got that bond already so Leo being the bridge that unites us all.. i'm not seeing it

(she says as someone who lived and worked in a complete foreign control. you learn, and adapt. and I didn't have a 1 billion dollar corporation behind me ensuring that i do well).

B: that's not my job. that would be Hunter and his staff. Or Lou. but these types had if you find them

oh. and in our organization?

i'd like to volunteer Conner Brown as tribute.

 

[RoadWarrior]

You forgot the word "non" in front of team in your sentence above when suggesting top 6 player.

I love Leo and and appreciate everything he brings to the Leafs, but he would be just as happy and effective if you took away his hockey stick and just let he skate around out there doing his thing, hitting, blocking shots, agitating etc.

No question teams need veteran presence and leadership and Leo provides that in spades but his skillset is not top 6 caliber. You can't confuse heart & effort with hockey talent. We are talking intangibles verses tangibles here.

Even on the Leafs team in the near future if Komarov stays he will be bumped out of the Top 6 when Nylander, Marner and others join the team and the talent level increases of the top 6.

Not sure if you're aware of this fact but Leo leads the leafs in goals and points this year........ just an inconvenient fact getting in the way of your argument that Leo is a plug.

No I wouldn't replace him with any of the kids until they've proven themselves at the NHL level which in some cases may never happen.

So many leaf fans suffer from 'shiny new toy' syndrome.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Nor sure if you're aware of this fact but Leo leads the leafs in goals and points this year........ just an inconvenient fact getting in the way of your argument that Leo is a plug.

Leo isn't a plug

but at the same time i doubt very much he's playing top six here in two years should he stay.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Leo isn't a plug

but at the same time i doubt very much he's playing top six here in two years should he stay.

Well he's Babcock's favourite player so assuming Babs is around in 2 years he'll be getting his ice time.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I would love it if Leo gets more goals than Kessel did last year.
Please Hockey Gods, make it happen !!

 

[Menzinger]

I gets that he's a very likeable guy - but I really think some in this thread are really overrating his role in terms of prospect development.

It's been reported that lots of guys are good leaders in the dressing room - or Polak, Lupul, Winnik, ect. I see no evidence that he's any more of a leader than any of them.

I won't be upset if the Leafs don't trade him - he's higly entertaining player, but I do think trading is the smart decision if another team is offering a 2nd or more.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

if another team is offering a 2nd or more.

A second ?
... what are the chances a second round pick even makes the NHL ?
Let alone lead your team in scoring.

Take a look at the round 2 players in this random draft.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html
It's hard to find players who have scored 20 goals lifetime.
Leo will score 20 this year alone.

You are trading Komarov for that ?

That would be very bad asset management.

 

[Menzinger]

Sad that despite 100 years of history we still haven't learned when to properly cash out on a fan favorite.

Komarov is a good but not great player yet may bring back a great return.

Players like him play a style that results in them slowing down over time due to wear and tear.

History tells me that the point when people want him moved the least is probably the smartest time to move him as that's when we maximize the return on the asset.

Exactly.

Leafs fans and coaches/management have always had a nasty habit of falling in love with bottom six heart and soul guys.

I remember even reading posts on these boards blaming the Leafs missing the playoffs one year on Bolland being injured.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

falling in love with bottom six heart and soul guys.

That lead the team in scoring ?
Heart and Soul guys dont lead teams in scoring.
Sorry, your analogy doesnt really apply.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Exactly.

Leafs fans and coaches/management have always had a nasty habit of falling in love with bottom six heart and soul guys.

I remember even reading posts on these boards blaming the Leafs missing the playoffs one year on Bolland being injured.

Ever since this fan bases childish outburst over losing Wendel Clark in 94 in one of the great steals in Leafs history every GM since has been scared to death to be the guy to have to tell the fans he traded a heart and soul player.

Because of it we ended up bringing Clark back at twice the price he should have cost, signed players like Tucker and McCabe to deals they never should have recieved as they should have been traded, and only fell further into mediocrity.

 

[Oan]

Will keeping Komarov make Leafs fall into mediocrity? If no team is willing to offer a 1st for him?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Leo is listed as a Centre on NHL.com
https://www.nhl.com/player/leo-komarov-8473463

 

[Mugzy97]

That lead the team in scoring ?
Heart and Soul guys dont lead teams in scoring.
Sorry, your analogy doesnt really apply.

He's on a very bad team and he is shooting way higher than his career average. He's not a star player but a heart and soul 3rd line grinder and that's a fact.

Leo isn't a plug

but at the same time i doubt very much he's playing top six here in two years should he stay.

Agreed. I think the general consensus of level headed leafs fans is if we can get a 1st round pick for this guy right now you box him up and ship him out. That being said, we may never get an offer from a contender willing to pay the 1st. In that case we keep him and let him do his thing. Pretty simple.

 

[Menzinger]

That lead the team in scoring ?
Heart and Soul guys dont lead teams in scoring.
Sorry, your analogy doesnt really apply.

He's been hot for 1/2 a season, and has been pretty cold in terms of production the last few games.

This year seems to be a career year that I doubt he'll be able to repeat.

His other two season in the NHL were on the bottom six.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He's on a very bad team and he is shooting way higher than his career average. He's not a star player but a heart and soul 3rd line grinder and that's a fact.

Kessel has the best Centre in the league and Leo has 2 more goals.
Leo will also be money in the playoffs.

Agreed. I think the general consensus of level headed leafs fans is if we can get a 1st round pick for this guy right now you box him up and ship him out. That being said, we may never get an offer from a contender willing to pay the 1st. In that case we keep him and let him do his thing. Pretty simple.

We are rebuilding, and he is 29.
So, you probably have to trade him for a 1st.
But that aint likely to happen unless there were other pieces involved.

 

[RoyalGremlin]

You can't have an all heart team just like you can't have an all skill team. Leo is definitely indispensable and going to be a key playoff performer. I'd keep him.

 

[RoadWarrior]

He's on a very bad team and he is shooting way higher than his career average. He's not a star player but a heart and soul 3rd line grinder and that's a fact.



Agreed. I think the general consensus of level headed leafs fans is if we can get a 1st round pick for this guy right now you box him up and ship him out. That being said, we may never get an offer from a contender willing to pay the 1st. In that case we keep him and let him do his thing. Pretty simple.

Nobody suggested he's a "star" player but he's much better than your average 3rd line grinder.

Babcock says he's the best player on the team and this is a guy who coached Team Canada and such players as Zetterberg and Datsyuk so I think he knows a thing or two about player evaluation.

 

[deletethis]

Sad that despite 100 years of history we still haven't learned when to properly cash out on a fan favorite.

Komarov is a good but not great player yet may bring back a great return.

Players like him play a style that results in them slowing down over time due to wear and tear.

History tells me that the point when people want him moved the least is probably the smartest time to move him as that's when we maximize the return on the asset.

Really?

Wendel Clark? (and Sylvan Lefebve) ----> Mats Sundin

Tomas Kaberle? ----> 1st, 2nd, Joe Colborne

Doug Gilmour? (and Dave Ellett) ----> Alan McCauley, Jason Smith, Steve Sullivan

Tiger Williams? (and Jerry Butler) ----> Rick Vaive, Bill Derlago

Grant Fuhr? -----> 1st, Dave Andreychuk

 

[Banic]

Really?

Wendel Clark? (and Sylvan Lefebve) ----> Mats Sundin

Tomas Kaberle? ----> 1st, 2nd, Joe Colborne

Doug Gilmour? (and Dave Ellett) ----> Alan McCauley, Jason Smith, Steve Sullivan

Tiger Williams? (and Jerry Butler) ----> Rick Vaive, Bill Derlago

Grant Fuhr? -----> 1st, Dave Andreychuk

Sure but had we moved Kaberle earlier the trade was projected to be much better. We also gave the Muskoka no movement clauses which we received NOTHING for.

Grabo Kuli and MacArthur were all alleged to have received high draft pick offers - again, they walked away from the team. The list goes on and on.



Also this "multiple languages" thing to me is a joke. I understand it may comfort some players from foreign countries, but guess what? They have translators... How do I know - because you constantly see Giovinco with his (also with MLSE)- these players are made to be happy and given every luxury the Leafs can provide. Further Toronto is a multicultural city with deep support networks for minorities. Having Leo Komarov speaking your language is not going to be a massive factor.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Really?

Wendel Clark? (and Sylvan Lefebve) ----> Mats Sundin

Tomas Kaberle? ----> 1st, 2nd, Joe Colborne

Doug Gilmour? (and Dave Ellett) ----> Alan McCauley, Jason Smith, Steve Sullivan

Tiger Williams? (and Jerry Butler) ----> Rick Vaive, Bill Derlago

Grant Fuhr? -----> 1st, Dave Andreychuk

Trading Clark for Sundin, and trading Gilmour for McCauley/Smith/Sullivan are exactly the type of trades we should be making, at the right price.

One benefit of playing for the Leafs is you will be over hyped if you play well. Is Komarov an all-star? Not a chance. But with the praise he gets from the Toronto media combined with his all-star appearance, it's the perfect time to cash in. That's exactly what we did with Clark, and we ended up with Sundin who had a hall of fame career with us.

On the flip side, if you do not perform for the Leafs, you will be ripped to shreds far more than what you deserve. We gave Kessel away for peanuts because his reputation was tattered. Had he played for any other team, he would've netted far more. And anyone associated with last year was nearly impossible to trade away last summer. Therefore, we should take advantage of trading players that DO play well for us, if it'll help our team.

 

[JEI]

I think some team will cough up a 1st rounder or some prospect equivalent.