Lemieux's top scoring seasons in perspective

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by WingsFan95, May 2, 2011.

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  1. WingsFan95

    WingsFan95 Registered User

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    First, Mario's greatest points total of 199, the only other guy to come within 200 aside from Gretzky.

    Had he played 82 games that season it would have been 215 points, or at least averaged out that way.

    His famed 160 in 60 season would have registered 219 points.

    And his 95-96 season where he would be the last player until Ovechkin to register 60+ goals in a season would have gotten him 189 points.

    Of course, the NHL had an 80 game season in the 80s while Lemieux's 92-93 season would have lasted 84 games if he was healthy the entire year.

    I'll just leave with the fact if he did play all 84 games in that 92-93 season he would have, by average, hit 97 goals.

    Here's how the Top 5 scoring chart would have looked like if Lemieux played all his games in those big scoring seasons:

    1. 224-Lemieux 92-93
    2. 215-Gretzky 85-86
    3. 212-Gretzky 81-82
    4. 209-Lemieux 88-89
    5. 208-Gretzky 84-85

    Though Gretzky would have hit 222 points in the 83-84 season had he played healthy
     
  2. Irato99

    Irato99 Registered User

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    Why don't you put that season on the list? What you do for Mario's seasons you should do for Wayne's, right?

    By the way Gretzky has the two most productive seasons if we go with PPG, he has seven in the top 10 while Mario has 2.
     
  3. Blades of Glory

    Blades of Glory Troll Captain

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    I have never, ever, seen anything like Lemieux's 1992-93 season. It might be the most remarkable individual season in the history of pro sports. Lemieux had 107 points in 40 games before he was diagnosed with non-Hodgkins lymphoma. He had a 26-point lead in the scoring race over Pat Lafontaine and was on pace to legitimately challenge Gretzky's single-season goal and point records. After missing two months, Lemieux re-joined the Penguins in Philadelphia on the same day that he received his final radiation treatment. Lafontaine was leading the NHL in scoring, 12 points ahead of Mario, on that day. Lemieux notched a goal and an assist in a loss against Philadelphia, and proceeded to score 51 points in the following 19 games that remained in the regular season. The Penguins won 17 consecutive games following that loss in Philadelphia, and altogether went 17-2-1 after Lemieux returned. He won the Art Ross by 12 points over the second-place Lafontaine. That means Lemieux outscored Lafontaine by 24 points in the 20 team games that both the Penguins and Islanders had remaining when he came back. Simply incredible.

    For the record, if Lemieux had played a full 84 games in 1992-93, here are his predicted totals: 96 goals, 127 assists, and 223 points. He was averaging 2.60 points/game through 40 games before he went down. After two months of energy-sapping radiation therapy, he averaged 2.65 points/game in the final 20 games. He scored more than 2 goals in a game only once in 40 games prior to cancer, a 3 goal-game against Detroit. In 20 games after cancer, he scored 4 goals in a game twice, and 5 goals once. Typical. :sarcasm:
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  4. mpp9

    mpp9 Registered User

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    Mario was toooooooo good. Unfortunate we lacked any sort of defense in his latter years let alone the health problems. I hope sid wins the big man many cups.
     
  5. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Lemieux was quite the marvel. To me the most amazing aspect is the fact he proved that he could score in the dead puck era as well - as an old guy no less. You simply can't dismiss him as a creature of the 80s.
     
  6. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

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    mario's 'adjusted points per game' for the 1995-96 season is actually better than any of gretzky's seasons.
     
  7. Irato99

    Irato99 Registered User

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    Really remarkable season, but still far from Gretzky's 83-84 season where he averaged 3 PPG before his injury. He had a point streak of 51 games and was heading for a 96 goals, 144 assists and 240 pts season (in 80 games). Even if he didn't come back from his injury and played only 52 games, he would still have led the league in goals, assists and points... in fact he won the scoring race at game no.42, that's typical Gretzky.
     
  8. Irato99

    Irato99 Registered User

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    I don't know where you got that information. Anyway I don't think adjusted stats are worth much, they don't take a few points into consideration. Just for the record, there were twelve 100 pts scorers and eight 50 goals scorers in 95-96, that's the same amount as season 83-84, which is Gretzky's best season.
     
  9. Dark Shadows

    Dark Shadows Registered User

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    It is true. The 95-96 season, top players were still scoring at an incredible clip due to the crackdown on obstruction and additional PP's. The reason goals per game is lower across the board has more to do with secondary scoring being lower. Adjusted points means little for this season, much like 92-93, it was an anomaly.
     
  10. Actually no it's not. Gretzky has 5 seasons with as many or more adjusted points.

    Here's the links to both of their career stats and adjusted stats below.

    Lemieux http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lemiema01.html

    Gretzky http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gretzwa01.html

    Lemieux's best adjusted season is actually 92-93 on a per game basis, better than any of Gretzky's including 83-84. Both I think are the "best" seasons ever.
     
  11. Derick*

    Derick* Guest

    We normally think high scoring = 80s so people sometimes forget that 92-93 was the highest scoring season in league history. Gretzky was past his peak by then and only played half the season. Mid-80s Gretzky would probably have had an even higher PPG than Lemieux did had he played in 92-93.
     
  12. Given the way powerplays were called that year, he most certainly wouldn't have.
     
  13. Look how much better Gretzky did in the 90's during seasons like 94, 97 and 98, compared to 93, and 96. Even in his prime Gretzky wasn't the powerplay scorer Lemieux was, so any season like 89, 93, 96, prime Lemieux would outscore prime Gretzky I strongly believe.
     
  14. Blades of Glory

    Blades of Glory Troll Captain

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    1992-93 wasn't the highest scoring year in league history. By goals/game, it is the 11th highest scoring full season in history. The 10 seasons ahead of 1992-92 in goals/game were the 10 seasons of the 1980's. In terms of individual scoring, 1992-93 was the highest, but that was because it was essentially a bridge between two eras. There was a ton of young HOF-caliber talent that were just entering their primes at a time that the superstars of the 1980's were still in their prime. The talent pool in the NHL was at it's absolute highest in the early 1990's. There was an infusion of young talent unlike any other period in NHL history.
     
  15. Rhiessan71

    Rhiessan71 Just a Fool

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    Just to expand on this...

    1979 7.00
    1980 7.03
    1981 7.69
    1982 8.03
    1983 7.73
    1984 7.89
    1985 7.77
    1986 7.94
    1987 7.34
    1988 7.43
    1989 7.48
    1990 7.37
    1991 6.94
    1992 6.96
    1993 7.25
    1994 6.48
    1995 5.97
    1996 6.29
    1997 5.83
    1998 5.28
    1999 5.27
    2000 5.49
    2001 5.51
    2002 5.24
    2003 5.31
    2004 5.14
    lockout
    2006 6.05

    Mario's '96 season of 161 points in 70 games (189 point pace) was in a year that is very close to the scoring levels of the first year after the lock out.
     
  16. tazzy19

    tazzy19 Registered User

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    Since we're speaking in hypotheticals about Lemieux, let's do the same for Gretzky... If there were 84 games per season in 83-84 (as there were for the years you are projecting Lemieux's point totals), Gretzky would have scored 99 goals and 233 points that year. And if he hadn't been injured after his 51 points scoring streak, and continued his scoring pace from the start of the season over those 51 games, he would have scored 252 points in 84 games. That's easily the best regular season of all time IMO.
     
  17. Blades of Glory

    Blades of Glory Troll Captain

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    Gretzky's 92 goals and 215 points will forever be the gold standard for individual offensive performance in the NHL. Nobody is arguing that. Lemieux might have surpassed it had he been healthy in 1992-93. In fact, I would go as far to say that he probably would have. But there is "might have" or "would have" and there is "did." Gretzky did it, and while Lemieux might have been able to do it, he didn't. Still, given the situation, I will always find Lemieux's 1992-93 season to be the most remarkable performance in NHL history.
     
  18. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

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    Lemieux scored 156 adjusted points in 70 games, do the math.

    Adjusted stats do matter for the 1995-96 season, especiallly when you compare it to the 1981-1986 seasons. There is no way scoring 115-120 points in the early 80's is equivalent to scoring 115-120 points in 1996. In the early 80's, players like denis maruk and kent nilsson were scoring 135-139 points, they wouldnt score that much in 1996, not a chance they outpoint prime sakic,forsberg and lindros by 20 points.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
  19. hatrick51*

    hatrick51* Guest

    Greatest Season of all time.
     
  20. lextune

    lextune I'm too old for this.

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    Haven't you heard? Even if he was in his prime he would barely be keeping up with Crosby in today's game.

    :sarcasm:
     
  21. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    I thought I would get through the whole thread without something really silly but there it was.

    I haven't seen anyone say that Mario wasn't better offensively than Sid period.

    Mario quite simply is the most gifted player that any of us will ever see in our lifetimes and he did have great production (Coin flip between him and Wayne) when healthy.
     
  22. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

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    If you look at the top 10 scorers from 1996 and then compare it to the seasons from 81-86, it is very clear the 80's were higher in scoring.

    If a prime sakic, forsberg and lindros only scored 115-120 points in 1996. Do you really think maruk, savard, nilsson, nichols would be scoring over 130 points, they did it in the 80's.

    Mario was on pace to score 189 points in a season where eric lindros was on pace for 129 and forsberg was on pace for 116. That is a huge gap of offense.
     
  23. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    1996 had an unusually high percentage of offense on the powerplay, correct? I remember the Penguins powerplay was absurd that year.

    Also, the 1996 Penguins may have been the last true run-and-gun team the NHL has (ever?) seen. Other offense-first teams have been around, but not even recent Washington was as run-and-gun as that Pittsburgh team, which flat out tried to outscore everyone.
     
  24. Irato99

    Irato99 Registered User

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    In 83-84, these Hall of Famers were in the top 10 in scoring, Coffey, Goulet, Stastny, Bossy, Kurri, Trottier. Still Gretzky outscored them all by at least 80 pts, and I'm not talking about pace here but facts... Oh, and Gretzky missed two weeks of play...
     
  25. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

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    Yeah it would be alot harder for lemieux to outscore the league by 80 points when the guy who finished 2nd in scoring his own teammate Jagr, a better scorer than all the players mentioned. Scoring 160 points in 96 is easily as impressive as putting up 200 in a league of 8 goals per game.
     

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