Lemieux/Jagr vs Gretzky/Messier

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by the_fan, Aug 21, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
View Users: View Users
  1. the_fan

    the_fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    11,463
    Likes Received:
    512
    Trophy Points:
    169
    This probably has been done already but if not, here we go
     
  2. Tad Mikowsky

    Tad Mikowsky Content Cop

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    13,775
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Gretzky and Messier.

    Only way Lemieux gets a nod over Gretzky is when you play the what if game, and only apply the what ifs to Lemieux and not Gretzky.
     
    Midnight Judges likes this.
  3. the_fan

    the_fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    11,463
    Likes Received:
    512
    Trophy Points:
    169
    The question will be, how much do you think Jagr is better than Messier, and is it enough to tilt the poll little towards Lemieux/Jagr duo? Because we all know the best player in this poll is Gretzky
     
  4. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    7,766
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Messier is more valuable then jagr I feel. Especially if you already have a Gretzky or Lemieux. Those 2 are so good they don't need a quality winger like Jagr to produce.

    You put Messier on the 2nd like to provide both offense and defense and you have a championship caliber team.

    If you're considering health - Gretzky is also way ahead of Lemieux
     
  5. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,021
    Likes Received:
    4,760
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Pretty easy one for me. 99 and 11.
     
  6. Sidney the Kidney

    Sidney the Kidney 3-Peat + 1

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    32,065
    Likes Received:
    6,992
    Trophy Points:
    175
    Gretzky/Messier.

    Depth at center > center/winger combination.
     
  7. McDavidCrushedLarkin

    McDavidCrushedLarkin Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    992
    Trophy Points:
    94
  8. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,021
    Likes Received:
    4,760
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Not only that. But Mark Messier is one of the most complete players in the history of the game. Sometimes I do not think he gets the credit he deserves. He won the cup twice without 99, can't say the same the other way. I would put him up there as one of the greatest players in the game to have played. Top 10.
     
  9. authentic

    authentic Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    12,449
    Likes Received:
    1,288
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Lemieux and Jagr. Results are funny.
     
  10. Salmonsnake

    Salmonsnake Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2016
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    414
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    People's Republic of California
    Maroon-Lemieux-Jagr
    Draisaitl-McDavid-Puljujarvi
    Lucic-RNH-Jokinen
     
  11. Ben White

    Ben White Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2,543
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Sigh, clearly Jagr > Messier without a doubt. Messier overrated as usual.
     
    SillyRabbit likes this.
  12. DominicBoltsFan

    DominicBoltsFan Advanced stats are good!

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    19,007
    Likes Received:
    3,359
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    High school student
    Location:
    Tampa
    Gretzky>Lemieux>Jagr>Messier

    I prefer Oil duo, Gretz is too easily the best player here.
     
  13. libertarian

    libertarian Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,671
    Likes Received:
    1,366
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Wow this is so wrong. Did you ever see Messier play in his prime?
     
  14. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,997
    Likes Received:
    1,892
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brampton, ON
    Why wouldn't RNH be on the top line, though? :popcorn:



    I'll take Gretzky and Messier.

    Having a strong 1-2 punch down the middle can make a team very successful.

    Look at EDM, COL, DET, PIT (early 90s and now)

    Gretzky and Messier won four Cups playing for the same team IRL. Lemieux and Jagr won two.
     
  15. the_fan

    the_fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    11,463
    Likes Received:
    512
    Trophy Points:
    169
    I should of done a Gretzky/Kurri vs Lemieux/Jagr. I think that would of made it a little closer poll. Maybe i will, later
     
  16. Tavares91Stamkos91

    Tavares91Stamkos91 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    46
    I think that has already been done and Gretzky/Kurri lost. People said that Gretzky/Messier would be closer (I think).
     
  17. elmaco

    elmaco Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    85
    66/68
     
  18. the_fan

    the_fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    11,463
    Likes Received:
    512
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Interesting
     
  19. Felidae

    Felidae Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2016
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Statistical comparison between Jagr and Messier. Bolded are names specified player finished ahead of in point/hart finishes.

    Jaromir Jagr

    Awards
    5 Art Ross
    1 Hart
    3 pearsons

    Hart finishes: 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 7, 13, 19, 23

    Hart competition
    1994-94: Lindros, Hasek, Coffey, Fleury, Hull
    1995-96: Lemieux, Messier, Lindros, Fedorov, Sakic
    1997-98: Hasek, Selanne, Brodeur, Gretzky, Bondra
    1998-99: Hasek, Yashin, Joseph, Selanne, Lindros
    1999-00: Pronger, Bure, Kolzig, Nolan, Recchi
    2000-01: Sakic, Lemieux, Cechmanek, Brodeur, Elias
    2005-06: Thornton, Kiprussof, Staal, Alfredsson, Ovechkin



    Points
    1993-94 NHL 99 (9th) Art Ross competition:
    1994-95 NHL 70 (1st) Lindros, Zhamnov, Sakic, Francis, Fleury,
    1995-96 NHL 149 (2nd) Lemieux, Sakic, Francis, Forsberg, Lindros
    1996-97 NHL 95 (6th) Lemieux, Selanne, Kariya, Gretzky, Leclair
    1997-98 NHL 102 (1st) Forsberg, Gretzky, Bure, leclair, Francis
    1998-99 NHL 127 (1st) Selanne, Kariya, Forsberg, Sakic, Yashin
    1999-00 NHL 96 (1st) Bure, Recchi, Kariya, Selanne, Amonte
    2000-01 NHL 121 (1st) Sakic, Elias, Allison, Straka, Kovalev
    2001-02 NHL 79 (5th) Iginla, Naslund, Betuzzi, Sundin, Sakic
    2005-06 NHL 123 (2nd) Thornton, Ovechkin, Alfredsson, Heatley,
    2006-07 NHL 96 (8th)

    PPG
    1994-95 NHL 1.46 (2nd)
    1995-96 NHL 1.82 (2nd)
    1996-97 NHL 1.51 (3rd)
    1997-98 NHL 1.32 (1st)
    1998-99 NHL 1.57 (1st)
    1999-00 NHL 1.52 (1st)
    2000-01 NHL 1.49 (2nd)
    2001-02 NHL 1.14 (3rd)
    2005-06 NHL 1.50 (2nd)


    Assists
    1993-94 NHL 67 (7th)
    1994-95 NHL 38 (7th)
    1995-96 NHL 87 (3rd)
    1997-98 NHL 67 (1st)
    1998-99 NHL 83 (1st)
    1999-00 NHL 54 (3rd)
    2000-01 NHL 69 (1st)
    2001-02 NHL 48 (9th)
    2005-06 NHL 69 (3rd)
    2006-07 NHL 66 (5th

    APG
    1993-94 NHL 0.84 (9th)
    1994-95 NHL 0.79 (9th)
    1995-96 NHL 1.06 (3rd)
    1997-98 NHL 0.87 (2nd)
    1998-99 NHL 1.02 (1st)
    1999-00 NHL 0.86 (2nd)
    2000-01 NHL 0.85 (2nd)
    2001-02 NHL 0.70 (5th)
    2005-06 NHL 0.84 (4th)
    2006-07 NHL 0.80 (5th)

    Goals
    1994-95 NHL 32 (2nd)
    1995-96 NHL 62 (2nd)
    1996-97 NHL 47 (6th)
    1997-98 NHL 35 (9th)
    1998-99 NHL 44 (2nd)
    1999-00 NHL 42 (4th)
    2000-01 NHL 52 (3rd)
    2005-06 NHL 54 (2nd)

    GPG
    1994-95 NHL 0.67 (3rd)
    1995-96 NHL 0.76 (3rd)
    1996-97 NHL 0.75 (1st)
    1997-98 NHL 0.45 (9th)
    1998-99 NHL 0.54 (5th)
    1999-00 NHL 0.67 (2nd)
    2000-01 NHL 0.64 (4th)
    2002-03 NHL 0.48 (10th)
    2005-06 NHL 0.66 (3rd)



    Mark Messier

    Awards
    2 Harts
    2 Pearsons
    1 Smythe

    Hart finishes: 2, 9, 9

    Hart Competition
    1989-90: Bourque, Hull, Gretzky, Lafontaine, Roy
    1991-92: Roy, Hull, Mclean, Roenick, Lemieux
    1995-96: Lemieux, Lindros, Jagr, Fedorov, Sakic

    Selke finishes: 8, 9, 14, 15, 16, 16, 17, 25


    Points
    1982-83 NHL 106 (7th)
    1986-87 NHL 107 (3rd)Gretzky, Kurri(Tied), Lemieux(Tied), Gilmour, Cicarelli
    1987-88 NHL 111 (5th) Lemieux, Gretzky, Savard, Hawerchuk, Robitaille(Tied, Stastny(Tied)
    1989-90 NHL 129 (2nd) Gretzky, Yzerman, Lemieux, Hull, Nicholls
    1991-92 NHL 107 (5th) Lemieux, Stevens, Gretzky, Hull, Robitaille(tied)
    1994-95 NHL 53 (10th)

    PPG
    1982-83 NHL 1.38 (7th)
    1983-84 NHL 1.38 (10th)
    1986-87 NHL 1.39 (3rd)
    1987-88 NHL 1.44 (8th)
    1988-89 NHL 1.31 (10th)
    1989-90 NHL 1.63 (3rd)
    1991-92 NHL 1.35 (7th)
    1995-96 NHL 1.34 (10th)
    1996-97 NHL 1.18 (7th)

    Assists
    1986-87 NHL 70 (3rd)
    1987-88 NHL 74 (5th)
    1988-89 NHL 61 (8th)
    1989-90 NHL 84 (2nd)
    1991-92 NHL 72 (6th)
    1994-95 NHL 39 (6th)

    APG
    1983-84 NHL 0.88 (8th)
    1986-87 NHL 0.91 (3rd)
    1987-88 NHL 0.96 (6th)
    1988-89 NHL 0.85 (9th)
    1989-90 NHL 1.06 (3rd)
    1990-91 NHL 0.98 (3rd)
    1991-92 NHL 0.91 (7th)
    1994-95 NHL 0.85 (7th)

    Goals
    1981-82 NHL 50 (8th)
    1982-83 NHL 48 (9th)
    1989-90 NHL 45 (9th)
    1995-96 NHL 47 (9th)

    GPG
    1981-82 NHL 0.64 (8th)
    1995-96 NHL 0.64 (7th)
     
  20. Ctrain2k

    Ctrain2k Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    687
    Trophy Points:
    95
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Yeah I remember people saying that
     
  21. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    67,946
    Likes Received:
    1,615
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Office Worker
    Location:
    Behind A Tree
    Close but Gretzky and Messier for me.
     
  22. The Winter Soldier

    The Winter Soldier RIP Fugu

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    54,021
    Likes Received:
    4,760
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Jari Kurri was a great player. I don't think people realize just how good he was on both sides of the puck. He also was on the same level of thinking with Gretzky. A perfect winger for him. And when 99 was traded he still had a 100+ points season and a cup. I would have taken Gretzky and Kurri had I seen that poll. Infact I was reading a hockey book this weekend, Marcel Dionne called Kurri the most underrated player that played.
     
  23. ijuka

    ijuka Registered User

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    10,802
    Likes Received:
    1,803
    Trophy Points:
    141
    I pick Gretzky... Not close.
     
  24. jj cale

    jj cale Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Messages:
    4,785
    Likes Received:
    940
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    crazy with some people thinking messier is the weak link here and overrated.

    He is the guy who pushes that duo over the top in a head to head matchup with Mario and Jagr. Messier was a far tougher match playoff player then Jagr ever was and would do what was ncessary to win this match up.

    Underrated player on these boards. one of the best centers and players I ever saw and a real winner.
     
  25. Salmonsnake

    Salmonsnake Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2016
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    414
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    People's Republic of California
    True, but even Gretzky had Kurri and Lemieux had Jagr. Pittsburgh has Kessel and Chicago Kane.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"