Leivo or Ennis?

[saltming]

we probably have different impressions of him, I have a hard time seeing him being less than a 20/20 guy if he gets opportunity and has potential for quite a bit more, he's already produced like a 60pt player for stretches (he's on a pace around there for his career based on average top 6 minutes)

Anyway I agree that it needs to be this year for him to get a shot here, I just really hope that happens here. I agree on the silver lining too, I think we'll be disappointed with at least one of Johnsson/Kapanen

I think 20/20 is a good projection for him too. I hope you don't think I'm trying to put him down? I like him as a player I'm just arguing why I think hes not getting regular ice time.

If I had to choose one that would be a letdown I would vote with Kapanen. He has all the skills but it will be tough for him to produce enough to satisfy the expectations some fans have put on him.
Johnsson my contract was unknown or over looked for years around here. He was regularly out of the top 10 prospect list and sometime not even in some posters top 20, so I think the bar is much lower for him. Add the draft position between the 2 and Kapanen has a steep hill to climb.
That said I've always been a johnsson fan so my bias might be showing here, but hes always produced at every level he played at and I expect that to continue.

 

[saltming]

That would work out for everyone then!!!!

..... except maybe Ennis.

Oh with his injury history it could be the end of his career.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Time for Leivo to step it up.He was drafted way back in 2011

 

[Randy Randerson]

I think 20/20 is a good projection for him too. I hope you don't think I'm trying to put him down? I like him as a player I'm just arguing why I think hes not getting regular ice time.

If I had to choose one that would be a letdown I would vote with Kapanen. He has all the skills but it will be tough for him to produce enough to satisfy the expectations some fans have put on him.
Johnsson my contract was unknown or over looked for years around here. He was regularly out of the top 10 prospect list and sometime not even in some posters top 20, so I think the bar is much lower for him. Add the draft position between the 2 and Kapanen has a steep hill to climb.
That said I've always been a johnsson fan so my bias might be showing here, but hes always produced at every level he played at and I expect that to continue.

no I get it, I believe in Leivo's numbers a little more I think, I care less about the footspeed shortcomings than the results and think he could be a deadly addition to a line with good players, sort of like a Hyman with talent - go get the puck, get it to the good guys and finish the opportunities he gets, then repeat. He won't get to the dump ins like Hyman does, but he'll sustain forward zone possession for lots of dominant shifts

I'm thinking similarly about Kapanen, his brain doesn't seem to move as fast as his hands or feet. I think he'll be fine as a 3rd wheel on a good line and his speed will make room for the linemates and chances for him, but I don't see him getting to be an offensively creative player in a vacuum

I'm bullish on Johnsson too, I think he'll be another guy who is very good as a compliment to good players. I've never seen him be wowing but very good as a finisher in high danger areas, great speed, all over the puck when the other team has it. I do think his talents translate well and he becomes a good middle 6 player

 

[saltming]

no I get it, I believe in Leivo's numbers a little more I think, I care less about the footspeed shortcomings than the results and think he could be a deadly addition to a line with good players, sort of like a Hyman with talent - go get the puck, get it to the good guys and finish the opportunities he gets, then repeat. He won't get to the dump ins like Hyman does, but he'll sustain forward zone possession for lots of dominant shifts

I'm thinking similarly about Kapanen, his brain doesn't seem to move as fast as his hands or feet. I think he'll be fine as a 3rd wheel on a good line and his speed will make room for the linemates and chances for him, but I don't see him getting to be an offensively creative player in a vacuum

I'm bullish on Johnsson too, I think he'll be another guy who is very good as a compliment to good players. I've never seen him be wowing but very good as a finisher in high danger areas, great speed, all over the puck when the other team has it. I do think his talents translate well and he becomes a good middle 6 player

I agree on Leivo as I've watched him do that regularly with the Marlies, but very sporadically with the leafs. When he can get the puck, yes he dominates.

Regarding Kapanen. I don't think his strengths lie in the game he's playing. He needs to be in the right place at the right time to score. He doesn't seem to be very dangerous off the rush, even with that speed. He still has time but that clock is ticking too.

And agreed on Johnsson. He will be a nice compliment and sniper on a talented line with puck hound instincts and solid defensive IQ.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I agree on Leivo as I've watched him do that regularly with the Marlies, but very sporadically with the leafs. When he can get the puck, yes he dominates.

Regarding Kapanen. I don't think his strengths lie in the game he's playing. He needs to be in the right place at the right time to score. He doesn't seem to be very dangerous off the rush, even with that speed. He still has time but that clock is ticking too.

And agreed on Johnsson. He will be a nice compliment and sniper on a talented line with puck hound instincts and solid defensive IQ.

with Marleau being done either at the end of this year or next (that contract is ideal for a trade to a cap floor team after next July 1 if Marleau waives) we'll need some reinforcemencts, and then Brown at the end of next year too. There could be space for all of them so I think we're wise to see what we have on all fronts, this team should cruise to the playoffs so I hope we experiment a bit and give each of them enough time in a few different roles so we get to know

I'm also of the opinion that Hyman is playing too high in the lineup, in a pure meritocracy one of those 3 guys would beat him out for a scoring line role

 

[saltming]

with Marleau being done either at the end of this year or next (that contract is ideal for a trade to a cap floor team after next July 1 if Marleau waives) we'll need some reinforcemencts, and then Brown at the end of next year too. There could be space for all of them so I think we're wise to see what we have on all fronts, this team should cruise to the playoffs so I hope we experiment a bit and give each of them enough time in a few different roles so we get to know

I'm also of the opinion that Hyman is playing too high in the lineup, in a pure meritocracy one of those 3 guys would beat him out for a scoring line role

Ya there will be room eventually so if the kids have patience and keep working they could have their big chance.

I don't see either of those 3 doing Hyman's job. Leivo would be the only one I think that could handle the punishment but Hyman is so much faster.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Ya there will be room eventually so if the kids have patience and keep working they could have their big chance.

I don't see either of those 3 doing Hyman's job. Leivo would be the only one I think that could handle the punishment but Hyman is so much faster.

I actually think any of them could do the same role with slightly different strengths. Hyman gets to the puck on dump ins and doesn't let it get moved until reinforcements arrive, but doesn't usually do anything productive with it on his own. Kapanen and Johnsson both have the speed...arguably both are faster than Hyman but they don't have the weight so they'd give up a little disruptiveness when they got there but would still be in time to stop it being moved cleanly and both would do things that are more useful than Hyman once they're there, and Leivo is actually decently fast in a straight line so I think he'd be alright, he would give up some speed to Hyman but is way more useful at stealing pucks and doing good things with them without reinforcements. Grundstrom is another one that I think could cover that role

so I think we should give some things a try, I really don't see why Hyman gets endowed that job

 

[Antropovsky]

I know our intentions are to stack two lines...and I know that Marner has looked great with Tavares. However...it would be interesting what teams would do if we dispersed the talent over 3 lines. Marner and Kadri were hot last year.

Marleau Matthews Ennis
Hyman Tavares Nylander
Johnsson Kadri Marner
Kapanen Lindholm Brown
Leivo

 

[saltming]

I actually think any of them could do the same role with slightly different strengths. Hyman gets to the puck on dump ins and doesn't let it get moved until reinforcements arrive, but doesn't usually do anything productive with it on his own. Kapanen and Johnsson both have the speed...arguably both are faster than Hyman but they don't have the weight so they'd give up a little disruptiveness when they got there but would still be in time to stop it being moved cleanly and both would do things that are more useful than Hyman once they're there, and Leivo is actually decently fast in a straight line so I think he'd be alright, he would give up some speed to Hyman but is way more useful at stealing pucks and doing good things with them without reinforcements. Grundstrom is another one that I think could cover that role

so I think we should give some things a try, I really don't see why Hyman gets endowed that job

I like grundstrom for that job too but I don't think he's ready yet. Thus far this preseason he seems to be a bit slow. Perhaps it's a cup hangover?
You have a good point that kapanen and johnsson could perhaps do the job using different approaches but imo Hyman seems better at those battles.
I can only assume the coach feels Hyman is best suited for that job, hence why he's still doing it.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ennis has a career year.

Lets hope not. This Team is much better with Nylander on it.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I like grundstrom for that job too but I don't think he's ready yet. Thus far this preseason he seems to be a bit slow. Perhaps it's a cup hangover?
You have a good point that kapanen and johnsson could perhaps do the job using different approaches but imo Hyman seems better at those battles.
I can only assume the coach feels Hyman is best suited for that job, hence why he's still doing it.

I think the Babcock lovechild theory has some merit on Hyman, really don't understand the approach. He always had a Franzen/Holmstrom with his talent lines but those guys could finish the opportunities that got made for them, Hyman is very inefficient with his scoring chances despite the bump in points this past season

 

[saltming]

I think the Babcock lovechild theory has some merit on Hyman, really don't understand the approach. He always had a Franzen/Holmstrom with his talent lines but those guys could finish the opportunities that got made for them, Hyman is very inefficient with his scoring chances despite the bump in points this past season

I think we are staying from the OP so I will leave it here.

 

[namttebih]

Lets hope not. This Team is much better with Nylander on it.

It doesn't necessarily mean that Willy isn't playing.

The guy is getting a second chance after a buy out. He looks like he's going to take every advantage of being able to play with 3 very good C.

 

[ACC1224]

It doesn't necessarily mean that Willy isn't playing.

The guy is getting a second chance after a buy out. He looks like he's going to take every advantage of being able to play with 3 very good C.

I guess a career year would be 50 points which could be doable on any of the top 3 lines.
My mistake, I thought he had a big year at point in his career which he could only surpass playing with Matthews.

 

[namttebih]

I guess a career year would be 50 points which could be doable on any of the top 3 lines.
My mistake, I thought he had a big year at point in his career which he could only surpass playing with Matthews.

A lot of it will depend on his health as well. Multiple concussions is tough for a guy his size.

He's obviously already shown chemistry with AM. He plays both wings as well. It opens a lot of options up if he sticks.

 

[ACC1224]

A lot of it will depend on his health as well. Multiple concussions is tough for a guy his size.

He's obviously already shown chemistry with AM. He plays both wings as well. It opens a lot of options up if he sticks.

He seems to be a lock to stick at this point.

 

[Menzinger]

Even in a scenario where Ennis makes the team (and he’s not a lock yet) and Nylander is trades, Ennis isn’t going to be on the Matthews line during the actual season. There are better options if Babcock has to radically change up the intended lines.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[Sypher04]

Who else on the team is 6’3, plays along the board, can play off wing and has a wicked wrister? No one.

Leivo has size but doesn't really use it to any real advantage. We have far more effective board players who lack the size he has. Several of which are wingers who can play their off-wing.

So he has a wrist shot. That isn't a need

 

[ACC1224]

That's what he says but it's hard to believe.
At this point it would be negligent not to prepare as if Nylander will still be unsigned.

Luckily Ennis looks like he will be an adequate stop gap.

 

[Sypher04]

I think 20/20 is a good projection for him too. I hope you don't think I'm trying to put him down? I like him as a player I'm just arguing why I think hes not getting regular ice time.

If I had to choose one that would be a letdown I would vote with Kapanen. He has all the skills but it will be tough for him to produce enough to satisfy the expectations some fans have put on him.
Johnsson my contract was unknown or over looked for years around here. He was regularly out of the top 10 prospect list and sometime not even in some posters top 20, so I think the bar is much lower for him. Add the draft position between the 2 and Kapanen has a steep hill to climb.
That said I've always been a johnsson fan so my bias might be showing here, but hes always produced at every level he played at and I expect that to continue.

I disagree on Kapanen vs Johnsson.

Johnsson didn't have the hype going back but coming into this year after what he did last year in the Calder cup playoffs especially expectations for him have been clearly higher than Kapanen. And watching him play so far through 2 games he's easily fallen further short imo. Again though, it's very early. Unless Johnsson can find his way up the lineup for an extended period this year I'd expect he falls further short of some fans expectation than Kapanen will. This said, neither is gonna light the world on fire from the 4th. I think many of us envisioned them getting top 9 minutes this year which right now doesn't seem likely yo happen, at least to start.

 

[Boutette]

Luckily Ennis looks like he will be an adequate stop gap.

Luck, however, doesn't appear to have much to do with this. Ennis has worked with the Leafs amazingly hard to earn himself this spot, something that the Leafs org has gone full out to enable. Almost as though they could see this situation of Nylander holding out happening the way that it has. And good on everyone involved.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Leivo has size but doesn't really use it to any real advantage. We have far more effective board players who lack the size he has. Several of which are wingers who can play their off-wing.

So he has a wrist shot. That isn't a need

Leivo uses his size perfectly well. He shields the puck and is physical along the boards. Only other guy like that is Hyman. Size is an asset. He has size and skill, something that no other winger on our club has

 

[Sypher04]

Leivo uses his size perfectly well. He shields the puck and is physical along the boards. Only other guy like that is Hyman. Size is an asset. He has size and skill, something that no other winger on our club has

He really doesn't.