Leivo or Ennis?

Leivo or Ennis


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    262

Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
11,360
9,539
Leivo, Ennis is not head and shoulders above Leivo in any part of the sport besides maybe skating but Leivo checks off many more needs than Ennis does

Leivo doesn't satisfy anything I would call a need for this team. And that isn't even a shot. Just he is the very definition of someone just being there.
 

Ratboy

I made a funny!
Jul 15, 2009
16,855
3,343
Leivo doesn't satisfy anything I would call a need for this team. And that isn't even a shot. Just he is the very definition of someone just being there.
I agree, he hasn't been anything special this preseason.
But Ennis seems to have figured out how to play well with Matthews, and there's value in that since Nylander will hold out for .. we don't know how long yet.
I'd take Ennis.
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
17,317
4,121
NHL player factory
They got dominated by Eichel, Okposo and Skinner, who combined for 12 shots and 4 points.

On the first PK, where the Sabres scored, Lindholm is desperately out of position and trying to hook Eichel.
View attachment 141621

On the second goal against, Lindholm fails to cover the passer on a cross-crease play.
View attachment 141623


Lindholm bears partial direct responsibility for both GA. Yes, he played against good players. He didn't do well against them.
Lol the break down on the PK was not on him at all. He was not the responsible party to cover that cross crease pass as our D missed an easy rotation.

He played very well the fact that all you got is the pk speaks volumes.

His line mates were not so good. They missed easy reads turned the puck over at the O zone blue line and were skating like they were in sand.
 

dimi78

Registered User
Aug 9, 2008
4,348
294
It's obvious to me anyway that Ennis is a place holder for Nylander right now and an injury depth player for the season. Camp has never been anything more than to get players prepared for the season. This notion that it's some type of tryout is pure phony. The team has already been predetermined for the start of the year. How they've made up the lines and the make up of what is 2 squads is telling. When it comes to the forwards there's only one decision that hasn't been made and it's not between Leivo and Ennis.

Marleau - Mathews- Nylander
Marner - JT - Hyman
Leivo - Kadri- Brown
A.J - ? - Kaps
Ennis

That's how the team will start if or when Nylander signs it's so obvious with the lone decision to be made on who will be the 4th line center.
 
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leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
13,819
8,327
It's obvious to me anyway that Ennis is a place holder for Nylander right now and an injury depth player for the season. Camp has never been anything more than to get players prepared for the season. This notion that it's some type of tryout is pure phony. The team has already been predetermined for the start of the year. How they've made up the lines and the make up of what is 2 squads is telling. When it comes to the forwards there's only one decision that hasn't been made and it's not between Leivo and Ennis.

Marleau - Mathews- Nylander
Marner - JT - Hyman
Leivo - Kadri- Brown
A.J - ? - Kaps
Ennis

That's how the team will start if or when Nylander signs it's so obvious with the lone decision to be made on who will be the 4th line center.

I doubt Leivo plays on Kadri’s wing, he’s not really suited for a matchup line.
 

Boutette

Been there done that
Sep 28, 2017
2,991
1,056
I agree, he hasn't been anything special this preseason.
But Ennis seems to have figured out how to play well with Matthews, and there's value in that since Nylander will hold out for .. we don't know how long yet.
I'd take Ennis.

He's figured out that when he's on a line with two players like Marleau and Matthews, they are going to be the center of attention because they take up so much space. As we've seen, Ennis, for the first time playing a third-wheel on a top line, is able to do what he apparently does very well. Appear and disappear at will, swoop in from out of the frame when its the right place at the right time. He'd be useful on either Matthews or Tavares' lines, because he will be able to do that while the other players are concentrating on big and flashy.
 

Boutette

Been there done that
Sep 28, 2017
2,991
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I honestly think Ennis is on another level than Levio. Ennis has so much damn skill. If he was a little taller he would be such a beast. Babcock isnt dumb he put Ennis on AM34's wing for a reason. And theres a reason Levio after all these years still isnt an NHL'er

They are completely different players who do things the other cannot do. Ennis can't be as physical or play the possession game Leivo does. Leivo can't disappear and reappear at will like Ennis can. Oil and water.
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
13,819
8,327
Actually, if you watched the games, he is. Ennis, however, is most definitely not.

We’re on a freaking hockey forum on a Sunday, everyone here is watching the games. Leivo has not looked good enough to earn a spot and Ennis has.

If you watched the games is just the laziest comment to make here.

Oh and I never said Ennis would, it’s going to be Brown and one of Johnsson or Kapanen.
 
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saltming

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Oct 6, 2015
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possession is a balancing act, it's not realistic that you'll be in the offensive zone all the time but maintaining forward zone possession is just as important as regaining possession in the defensive zone for the purposes of winning the possession game, which correlates strongly to winning games. Keeping possession or getting it back in the offensive zone really isn't different than getting it back in the defensive zone for the purposes of winning games

again though, I think Leivo's being painted as an abysmal player in his own end which hasn't been the case in his career so far. He looked less than stellar last year there when he was playing in heavy defensive zone start usage with Matt Martin and Dominic Moore because Leivo ended up being having to cover more than his share of defensive zone, but in high-point coverage like he gets with good players he's really not bad. Nothing wrong with putting guys in positions to succeed, last year Babcock really put him in the least complimentary usage

I'm fine with however it ends up as long as we're icing the best team, I think there's a lot of evidence that Leivo should be part of that (probably in more than a 4th line role) but if that ends up not being the case, that's fine by me as long as someone pans out. I really don't want us to overlook a James Neal level player that we could have on a 3-5 year team friendly contract when we could really use that though, especially for a 28yo failed top-6-or-bust UFA prove-it contract signing that will probably not stick in any significant capacity, I think that's a worst case scenario for us
I'm not going to extremes, saying he's abysmal in his end, I'm saying Babcock might choose someone better in their end over Leivo. This could be the crux of why Leivo has seen limited I've over the years.
Also, missing out on a Neal level player seems less and less likely as hes had lots of opportunities to work his way into the line up. I'm not saying the potential isn't there, but the chance is getting slimmer by the game played.
 

member 300185

Guest
Ennis has proven himself. He is a tireless forechecker like Hyman but with finishing talent. Leivo is none of those things. Not fast, has decent shot but never in the right place.

And Ennis has taken the pressure off management to sign Nylander, which is good because Dubas can wait him out now.
 

LeafSteel

GO LEAFS GO!!!
Mar 5, 2014
5,614
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Toronto
More I see them the more I think Ennis is competing for top 6 and Leivo is competing for bottom 6.

I think Hyman needs to be looking over his shoulder for Ennis more than Leivo.
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
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I'm not going to extremes, saying he's abysmal in his end, I'm saying Babcock might choose someone better in their end over Leivo. This could be the crux of why Leivo has seen limited I've over the years.
Also, missing out on a Neal level player seems less and less likely as hes had lots of opportunities to work his way into the line up. I'm not saying the potential isn't there, but the chance is getting slimmer by the game played.
I honestly think there might be something we don't know about, like an off ice issue. The work ethic has been lauded by Babcock himself in the last 2 summers, and the on ice results have been good, the fact that he hasn't had much playing time despite playing well to very well is very odd

either way, I'd like to see what we have in an extended look with good linemates in usage that suits him, if its not there that's fine I just don't want to find out that it is there when he's in another jersey
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
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I'm not going to extremes, saying he's abysmal in his end, I'm saying Babcock might choose someone better in their end over Leivo. This could be the crux of why Leivo has seen limited I've over the years.
Also, missing out on a Neal level player seems less and less likely as hes had lots of opportunities to work his way into the line up. I'm not saying the potential isn't there, but the chance is getting slimmer by the game played.
I honestly think there might be something we don't know about, like an off ice issue. The work ethic has been lauded by Babcock himself in the last 2 summers, and the on ice results have been good, the fact that he hasn't had much playing time despite playing well to very well is very odd

either way, I'd like to see what we have in an extended look with good linemates in usage that suits him, if its not there that's fine I just don't want to find out that it is there when he's in another jersey
 

Cleetus

Brick Woll
Jan 2, 2012
19,265
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More I see them the more I think Ennis is competing for top 6 and Leivo is competing for bottom 6.

I think Hyman needs to be looking over his shoulder for Ennis more than Leivo.

:huh::ha::sarcasm: Zachary Hyman simply does not need to look over his shoulder he works to hard and babs loves him, and truthfully im starting to have a soft spot for the hymanator.
 
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saltming

Fan Addict
Oct 6, 2015
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I honestly think there might be something we don't know about, like an off ice issue. The work ethic has been lauded by Babcock himself in the last 2 summers, and the on ice results have been good, the fact that he hasn't had much playing time despite playing well to very well is very odd

either way, I'd like to see what we have in an extended look with good linemates in usage that suits him, if its not there that's fine I just don't want to find out that it is there when he's in another jersey
I think he could well be a good player, maybe even a 20 goal guy but if he doesn't get a regular spot this season, he will be doing that for another team.
The silver lining is that if he doesn't make the team it's because we are that deep that we can afford to sacrifice a player of Leivo's potential.
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
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:huh::ha::sarcasm: Zachary Hyman simply does not need to look over his shoulder he works to hard and babs loves him, and truthfully im starting to have a soft spot for the hymanator.
Hyman, the only player that if he scored zero goals all year would still have a top line job on a Babcock team !
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
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Ennis ,has been better than I anticipated,mind you,that wasn't much. He is however playing with the #1 even strength scorer in the league !!! How nice for him! He has been lucky as well!
Leivo , has not been bad or impressive. He has not played with Matthews or JT. Therefore, a fair comparison is not truly available between the two.
They are different type players. In the long run , I feel that Leivo would be the more useful player. I don't see where Ennis fits once Willy comes back. If the thinking he would be with Kadri,then why not play him there now?
There are other players as well that both players are competing against (none of which are playing with Matthews) but, Waivers,Money and Politics are a reality. I believe the team was already made up on paper and that there would need to be a standout performance to change that!
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
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I think he could well be a good player, maybe even a 20 goal guy but if he doesn't get a regular spot this season, he will be doing that for another team.
The silver lining is that if he doesn't make the team it's because we are that deep that we can afford to sacrifice a player of Leivo's potential.
we probably have different impressions of him, I have a hard time seeing him being less than a 20/20 guy if he gets opportunity and has potential for quite a bit more, he's already produced like a 60pt player for stretches (he's on a pace around there for his career based on average top 6 minutes)

Anyway I agree that it needs to be this year for him to get a shot here, I just really hope that happens here. I agree on the silver lining too, I think we'll be disappointed with at least one of Johnsson/Kapanen
 

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