Leipold" "Foreigners can be replacement players"

[transplant99]

Foreign born players enter the US every single year to play hockey. Its not about if there is a work stoppage or not, as even as we speak, the UHL, ECHL, AHL, and even lower leagues are chalk full of Euros and Canadians....all during a work stoppage in the NHL.

Every year these guys move up and down the minor league ladder as well, so it has nothing to do with where they originally sign.


The NLRB is mandated to protect US jobs. When 90% of those existing jobs go to foreigners already, the NHLPA is going to have a hard time arguing to the NLRB that somehow its an unfair labor practice to have foreign born replacements.

 

[Wetcoaster]

See here is where things ARENT so "black letter" as you like to say. This was explained to me a week or so ago by an immigration attorney who is a consultant for minor pro leagues in the US.

The vast majority of pro hockey players in the US that come from Canada dont hold green cards either. They are in the US on H-2 permits.

Also, since its foreign born players taking up these spots to begin with, its now a foreigner replacing a foreigner when it comes to replacement players. Not a foreigner taking up a US citizen's job. Which is part of what the NLRB has to rule on to begin with.

This thing isn't so straight forward as you have been espousing it to be. There are all kinds of circumstances involved with this particular case that the NLRB never usually has to consider when making decisions.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the NLRB.

These are laws that have been in place for decades and are administered by the US and Canadian authorities. The NLRB has no authority.

As I have noted in the past there are not many hockey players who have become immigrants.

NHL players are not on H2-B visas they are issued P-1 visas.

 

[Wetcoaster]

So the players already in the us playing in the ECHL, AHL CHL and UHL could play since they aren't "new"

What about players that have american wives? I know more than a few of our players have married americans and some will be soon (Hartnell)

They require different visas to play in the NHL. H2-B for the minor leagues and P-1 for the NHL.

During the previous ECHL dispute new visas were not being issued and existing visas were cancelled.

Since P-1 visas are issued on the NHL team's application for a one year period, there are not likely to be any in force by the time any replacement league rolls around.

Processing time for a petitioned spouse can run several years before immigrant status is actually granted. Similar procedures apply in Canada.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Maybe this what the NHL lawyers will try and argue. They may say they are not taking away American citizens jobs. That is the whole point of the law I believe and with at least one of the owners (Hicks) knowing George Bush they may try something like this. Not to say it would be successful but the NHL lockout is not like a dispute with GM or Ford where American workers are effected. In fact, they could argue that by keeping the lockout more American jobs are effected due to by-product jobs like concessions, areans upkeep etc. Again not an expert but there are different situations than the average labour dispute and may have to be treated in a new manner (i.e. they could get a professional sport league exemption on the labour laws). They would still need to get an impasse but it is not as impossible as some lawyer posters on here suggest...new ground...open minds.

It is irrelevant. The immigration prohibition is not dependnent upon the workforce. There is no discretion and test of economic effect. Labour dispute = no work visas.

The washinton Capital's immigration attorney has been very clear on this point and he is one of the top imgration lawyers in the US. I have yet to see one US immigration lawyer who supports your theory.

Besides they would be taking jobs away from American hockey players, those who refused to cross the line and those who could be playing as replacement players.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Foreign born players enter the US every single year to play hockey. Its not about if there is a work stoppage or not, as even as we speak, the UHL, ECHL, AHL, and even lower leagues are chalk full of Euros and Canadians....all during a work stoppage in the NHL.

Every year these guys move up and down the minor league ladder as well, so it has nothing to do with where they originally sign.


The NLRB is mandated to protect US jobs. When 90% of those existing jobs go to foreigners already, the NHLPA is going to have a hard time arguing to the NLRB that somehow its an unfair labor practice to have foreign born replacements.

Nothing to do with the NLRB. It is an immigration matter.

 

[eye]

They require different visas to play in the NHL. H2-B for the minor leagues and P-1 for the NHL.

During the previous ECHL dispute new visas were not being issued and existing visas were cancelled.

Since P-1 visas are issued on the NHL team's application for a one year period, there are not likely to be any in force by the time any replacement league rolls around.

Processing time for a petitioned spouse can run several years before immigrant status is actually granted. Similar procedures apply in Canada.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the status of players like Phoenuf, Carter, Perry etc. as to what immigration papers they would need in order to play in their NHL affiliate AHL teams remaining games this year if and when they are eliminated from further CHL play. Are they in fact eligible and does it matter if they already signed NHL deals or not? Can they sign AHL deals and still be eligible to work in the USA? What about NHL draft picks that are NCAA Seniors that are Canadian and want to keep on playing when their NCAA season ends. I find this kind of stuff fascinating since I cross the border for work all the time and have friends on both sides of the 49th.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the status of players like Phoenuf, Carter, Perry etc. as to what immigration papers they would need in order to play in their NHL affiliate AHL teams remaining games this year if and when they are eliminated from further CHL play. Are they in fact eligible and does it matter if they already signed NHL deals or not? Can they sign AHL deals and still be eligible to work in the USA? What about NHL draft picks that are NCAA Seniors that are Canadian and want to keep on playing when their NCAA season ends. I find this kind of stuff fascinating since I cross the border for work all the time and have friends on both sides of the 49th.

They would need H2-B visas to play in in the US and they would need to be signed to contacts. They could not get them this year because these are quota visas and the quota has already been used up.

And with nearly 400 players currently overseas playing in European leagues and many others at various levels in the United States, there could still be others ready to throw in the hat and sign on with a minor league like the Chiefs.

But according to (ECHL Johnstown Chiefs General Manager Jim) Brazill, that number is limited by paperwork and legal issues.

"Toby has been doing his homework the last couple weeks, looking for guys," Brazill said. "But the unique situation that we are in this year, U.S. Immigration has notified us that as of Jan. 3, there are no more H2B visas this year, meaning that we can no longer pursue non-American players. There are just no visas. So the Irbe's, the Jeff Zehrs, some of the names that are flying around out there, we just can't bring them in at this time."

http://www.johnstownchiefs.com/trib/2005/02feb/17.htm

The ECHL was informed last week that U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services had reached its 66,000 cap on distributing H-2B working visas on Jan. 3. No new visas will be issued until Oct. 1 of this year.

The H-2B visa allows for temporary work, less than 12 months, in a variety of professional fields and is the visa all United States-based minor hockey leagues use for their players.

For ECHL teams it means they cannot sign foreign-born players who do not have a pre-existing H-2B visas to play this season.

"It limits everybody's options," Florida general manager Craig Brush said. "We're fortunate to have as many players as we've got."

ECHL vice president of hockey operations Rod Pasma said the visas are not a league issue, but an immigration issue and there is nothing it can do this season. He expects it to especially hurt foreign college and junior hockey players who normally sign with ECHL teams when their seasons end in February and March.

"There are a lot of other businesses out there affected, not just us," Pasma said. "It doesn't look good for any player who isn't currently on an H-2B."