LeBrun: LeBrun sees Vegas, Toronto and Calgary as best landing spots for Pietrangelo

shortfuze

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Apr 23, 2007
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Kerfoot and Johnsson gone,,gets the job done,,that 7m cap right there

friendly also has rosen/marincin on the books,,they will be in the ahl,,that frees up another 1.5m

those 2 in the AHL AP would have us at 6D and 1.5m cap for barabanov and Korshkov to fill those 2 forward foles.
5 million. those 2 players need to be replaced.
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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Just imagining if our 3 RFA just took "paycuts" aka not exploit Dubas. Extra 3M in cap space would've been phenomenal right about now. I don't see how this signing can work without moving Marner or Nylander. You need depth if you wanna win in the nhl, star players are nice and all, but you need the other 17-19 guys on the team to contribute.
Would it be better for Dubas to move out Marner or Nylander before signing Pietrangelo? Just wondering if any GM taking on MM or WM would offer less in return if Leafs have signed AP and are in serious need to shed cap.
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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Just imagining if our 3 RFA just took "paycuts" aka not exploit Dubas. Extra 3M in cap space would've been phenomenal right about now. I don't see how this signing can work without moving Marner or Nylander. You need depth if you wanna win in the nhl, star players are nice and all, but you need the other 17-19 guys on the team to contribute.
Compare the cap hits of Tampa’s top guys to the Leaf’s top guys, and it’s not hard to see why Tampa has a roster full of really good players in support roles, and the Leafs don’t. The wisest move for the Leafs might be to stay clear of AP. The last big dollar UFA they added (Tavares) kind of made them go backwards in season total points.
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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You have to replace them with players though. At absolute minimum, that's 1.5M to fill their roster spots, so you're actually only saving ~5.5M.

Also going with a 3rd and 4th line made up entirely of bargain bin UFAs and rookies IS gutting the depth. It would likely cause problems all year with our secondary scoring, special teams, etc, and if we had multiple injuries up front (which happens every year), it'd get even worse.
Error - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

and we still have 3.2m cap left
 

BLONG7

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Maybe a Leaf fan can enlighten me but having looked at the numbers briefly, wouldn’t the Leafs need to move Nylander, Johnson and replace Andersen with a $3M goalie to make a Pietro signing work?
Common sense and perspective....but they will tell ya they can make it work with just 20 guys on the roster.
I would think,if he leave the Blues, the Avs have a huge shot at him.
 
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PatriceBergeronFan

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Best, or most likely? There is a significant difference. Which is it? The former would render this as non-speculation, pure opinion, and a load of fluff for clicks.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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Just imagining if our 3 RFA just took "paycuts" aka not exploit Dubas. Extra 3M in cap space would've been phenomenal right about now. I don't see how this signing can work without moving Marner or Nylander. You need depth if you wanna win in the nhl, star players are nice and all, but you need the other 17-19 guys on the team to contribute.

Paycuts?

How about simply signing market-value deals based on being RFAs coming off ELCs?

Nylander at $500k less.
Marner at $1.5m less.
Matthews at $1m less (better than Eichel, but less term)

Like you said, $3m right there.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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Would it be better for Dubas to move out Marner or Nylander before signing Pietrangelo? Just wondering if any GM taking on MM or WM would offer less in return if Leafs have signed AP and are in serious need to shed cap.

All it takes is 2 GMs who want a player to make sure that they're getting "the most they can" for either of these guys. Doesn't really matter whether you do it before or after.
 
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93gilmour93

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Feb 27, 2010
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Leafs currently have 6.1 million in cap space. Send Marincin and Rosen to the Marlies and now they have 7.5 in cap space.

Now move AJ for a draft pick and replace him with Robertson to save another 2.6 to give the leafs 10.1 in space.

Next up is to move Holl for a pick and he's replaced by Lehtonen to save another 1.1 million. Now the leafs are at 11.2 in space.

Use the cap money to sign AP to a front loaded deal with a 9.0 cap hit and resign Spezza at say 1.0. At this point the leafs would still have 1.1

Next is Kerfoot out for pick/prospect and it's back up to 4.6 in space. Take 3 million of that to sign Mikheyev and Rodrigues and back to 1.6 in space.

Hyman Matthews Marner
Mikheyev Tavares Nylander
Robertson Spezza Engvall
? Rodrigues Barabanov

Rielly AP
Muzzin ?
Sandin Lehtonen

At this point the leafs still haven't made a move with Andersen and I really believe Dermott is moved which would fill in the two "?" I have listed either witg a player coming back or UFA and would have to assume saving a bit more cap with the moves.

Last thing to do is what the leafs have done for years and that's trading for a player or two on LTIR to add even more space.

When the contracts for Hyman and Rielly come up that may be when a trade for a player like Nylander might be necessary but for right now it's absolutely possible to fit AP in without touching the big 4
 
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13pacheco31

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Leafs currently have 6.1 million in cap space. Send Marincin and Rosen to the Marlies and now they have 7.5 in cap space.

Now move AJ for a draft pick and replace him with Robertson to save another 2.6 to give the leafs 10.1 in space.

Next up is to move Holl for a pick and he's replaced by Lehtonen to save another 1.1 million. Now the leafs are at 11.2 in space.

Use the cap money to sign AP to a front loaded deal with a 9.0 cap hit and resign Spezza at say 1.0. At this point the leafs would still have 1.1

Next is Kerfoot out for pick/prospect and it's back up to 4.6 in space. Take 3 million of that to sign Mikheyev and Rodrigues and back to 1.6 in space.

Hyman Matthews Marner
Mikheyev Tavares Nylander
Robertson Spezza Engvall
? Rodrigues Barabanov

Rielly AP
Muzzin ?
Sandin Lehtonen

At this point the leafs still haven't made a move with Andersen and I really believe Dermott is moved which would fill in the two "?" I have listed either witg a player coming back or UFA and would have to assume saving a bit more cap with the moves.

Last thing to do is what the leafs have done for years and that's trading for a player or two on LTIR to add even more space.

When the contracts for Hyman and Rielly come up that may be when a trade for a player like Nylander might be necessary but for right now it's absolutely possible to fit AP in without touching the big 4
They could always acquire a ltir contract
 
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MissouriMook

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They could always acquire a ltir contract
I've seen this come up frequently and I don't understand how this helps with cap space. Your cap hit and your cap ceiling go up by the exact same amount based on the LTIR player being acquired. The only value I can see to doing this is accumulating prospects or draft capital, neither of which helps add an expensive player to the roster. What am I missing here?
 

93gilmour93

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Feb 27, 2010
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I've seen this come up frequently and I don't understand how this helps with cap space. Your cap hit and your cap ceiling go up by the exact same amount based on the LTIR player being acquired. The only value I can see to doing this is accumulating prospects or draft capital, neither of which helps add an expensive player to the roster. What am I missing here?
When a player goes on LTIR when the season starts that cap number now is available space to use going past the set cap number. Basically it's a loophole for rich teams to spend past the cap
 

WetcoastOrca

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Jun 3, 2011
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Leafs currently have 6.1 million in cap space. Send Marincin and Rosen to the Marlies and now they have 7.5 in cap space.

Now move AJ for a draft pick and replace him with Robertson to save another 2.6 to give the leafs 10.1 in space.

Next up is to move Holl for a pick and he's replaced by Lehtonen to save another 1.1 million. Now the leafs are at 11.2 in space.

Use the cap money to sign AP to a front loaded deal with a 9.0 cap hit and resign Spezza at say 1.0. At this point the leafs would still have 1.1

Next is Kerfoot out for pick/prospect and it's back up to 4.6 in space. Take 3 million of that to sign Mikheyev and Rodrigues and back to 1.6 in space.

Hyman Matthews Marner
Mikheyev Tavares Nylander
Robertson Spezza Engvall
? Rodrigues Barabanov

Rielly AP
Muzzin ?
Sandin Lehtonen

At this point the leafs still haven't made a move with Andersen and I really believe Dermott is moved which would fill in the two "?" I have listed either witg a player coming back or UFA and would have to assume saving a bit more cap with the moves.

Last thing to do is what the leafs have done for years and that's trading for a player or two on LTIR to add even more space.

When the contracts for Hyman and Rielly come up that may be when a trade for a player like Nylander might be necessary but for right now it's absolutely possible to fit AP in without touching the big 4
Great top six, great D, worst bottom six in the NHL and no depth for forwards after that. Now do the lineup with an injury to two of the top 9 players as this is inevitable for every team.
That team probably makes the playoffs but would be in deep trouble once the injuries start to pile up in a long playoff run imo.
It would be an interesting experiment though as it’s never been done before in the cap era.

I just think you end up wasting one more year of Tavares and AP while they are still very effective players and instead should probably bite the bullet and trade one of Marner/Nylander, sign AP, add some two way forwards and vastly improve a weak bottom six to have a legitimate run at the Cup next year.
 

93gilmour93

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Feb 27, 2010
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Great top six, great D, worst bottom six in the NHL and no depth for forwards after that. Now do the lineup with an injury to two of the top 9 players as this is inevitable for every team.
That team probably makes the playoffs but would be in deep trouble once the injuries start to pile up in a long playoff run imo.
It would be an interesting experiment though as it’s never been done before in the cap era.

I just think you end up wasting one more year of Tavares and AP while they are still very effective players and instead should probably bite the bullet and trade one of Marner/Nylander, sign AP and vastly improve a weak bottom six to have a legitimate run at the Cup next year.
I think that's where the trade deadline comes into play getting a few guys on the last year of the deal to stack up for a playoff run
 

Big Daddy Cane

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When a player goes on LTIR when the season starts that cap number now is available space to use going past the set cap number. Basically it's a loophole for rich teams to spend past the cap

No, it's not. If the Leafs enter the season with $81 mil in cap hits, they'll have 500k in space. If the Leafs enter the season with $81 mil in cap hits and acquire a Hossa or Kesler, they'll have 500k in usable cap. In fact, LTIR is a negative for the Leafs in that the available space won't accumulate throughout the year for greater flexibility in injury callups and at the deadline.
 

93gilmour93

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You still have to be under the cap at some point.
The Leafs have done this for years. When the season starts they end up under the cap. You can spend over during the offseason and LTIR kicks in at the start of the year to make the team at or under the cap
 

93gilmour93

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Feb 27, 2010
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No, it's not. If the Leafs enter the season with $81 mil in cap hits, they'll have 500k in space. If the Leafs enter the season with $81 mil in cap hits and acquire a Hossa or Kesler, they'll have 500k in usable cap. In fact, LTIR is a negative for the Leafs in that the available space won't accumulate throughout the year for greater flexibility in injury callups and at the deadline.
Well than explain how the leafs are over the cap every year but when the season starts it works?
 

AvroArrow

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Jun 10, 2011
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Compare the cap hits of Tampa’s top guys to the Leaf’s top guys, and it’s not hard to see why Tampa has a roster full of really good players in support roles, and the Leafs don’t. The wisest move for the Leafs might be to stay clear of AP. The last big dollar UFA they added (Tavares) kind of made them go backwards in season total points.

I believe we should still go after Pietro, but immediately follow it with moving one of those RW for cap relief/depth. Dubas wants to keep the core guys together but sadly we live in a cap world. So if you want to be a real contender, it's going to have to happen. Unless someone from the Marlies emerges as a legitimate role player.

I just don't have faith in Dubas' plan. Even if he signs Pietro, i don't think Dubas has the guts/brains to move a necessary contract for team success. How i feel is, he cares more about players as individuals/friends, than he does team success. His job is to make this franchise successful and long term team success, but I feel like he's distracted by trying to be friends with the players and he makes that a priority over team success. This core group is expected to bring a championship to Toronto, so far they have not been able to get out of the first round. And I don't blame the individual core players for it. We didn't lose because of Matthews/JT/Marner/Nylander/Rielly. We lost because of the rest of the team. Something Dubas doesn't get.

Three biggest challenges for Toronto

Cap
The blue line
Depth

Pietro addresses the blue line, but makes an even bigger mess with the cap/depth. I don't know how this potential signing could lead to long term success, without moving a big contract or the cap rising. And with the pandemic, the latter is not happening.
 
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Wandering Cynic

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Dec 2, 2011
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The key is offseason. Nobody wants to live there in the Winter.
Got a lot of responses for this post. Calgary is a nice city, but at the same time, I don’t see why many players would want to play there. For example, Alex Goligoski has Calgary on his no trade list as well (from yesterday’s report). If you are going to deal with Canadian winters, you may as well play in Toronto or Montreal. If you want to play in Canada but don’t want to deal with the winters, then Vancouver is the best option. Teams like Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg would be the bottom of the barrel, which is why all three teams are usually found on players’ no trade lists.

If you’re making millions a year, you would rather play elsewhere. For a normal job, those three cities are great.

Calgary may not have the harshest winters in the country, but it still gets pretty damn cold. And yes, I have been to Calgary in the winter.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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The Leafs have done this for years. When the season starts they end up under the cap. You can spend over during the offseason and LTIR kicks in at the start of the year to make the team at or under the cap

Yes they have... but LTIR doesn't "create" more space. It simply allows you to use the space that an injured player would have occupied.

If you don't have that injured player to begin with, you're better off.

Now, before you point out the trading back for David Clarkson's deal... that was an extremely specific circumstance, driven entirely by Mitch Marner. Remember that the Leafs were without Marner would not be on LTIR -- even with Nathan Horton's deal around. Once the season started, you could only replace Nathan Horton's $5m or whatever it was. Marner was going to cost a lot more than that.

There's no benefit to using LTIR unless you're already going to be "in it".
 

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