TSN: Lebrun: Re-signing Jake Gardiner still an option

[Trapper]

The problem is that it's pretty much going sideways. Keep Gardiner and we're so much better, really hope we can work it out somehow.

It all depends if we can pull in a D from Carolina.
Gardiner or Zaitsev or both could be casualties.

 

[Trapper]

Its hard to imagine other than if Gardiner gives the Leafs a huge discount would they be able to re-sign and keep him beyond this year.

Only other option would be deal Zaitsev for futures and use that recaptured free space money to sign Jake.

Zaitsev is Leafs only real RHD so trading him does have its downside as well.

We also have to keep in mind the Seattle expansion draft.
Can we only protect 3 D?
Rielly then Muzzin/Gardiner/Dermott.

Then if we trade for a Carolina D, you need to re-evaluate.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

The only way I see it working on paper is offering Gardiner full term (8 years) understanding that a 34, 35, 36 year old Gardiner at a $5M some-odd is an anchor to deal with later. If you think about, teams will be offering Gardiner up to $8M per year on 5 year deals this summer. After a deal like that is done Gardiner will probably be close to retirement (34 years old) unable to demand little more than a half or third his previous contract. So I'll do the math: 5 x ~$8M + 3 x ~$3M = ~$49M, ~$49M / 8 = ~$6M, hometown discount: $5.5M AAV over 8 seasons. Probably wishful thinking...

Teams will offer 8 million per year? We're talking about Gardiner right? Jake Gardiner?

 

[Gary Nylund]

We also have to keep in mind the Seattle expansion draft.
Can we only protect 3 D?
Rielly then Muzzin/Gardiner/Dermott.

Then if we trade for a Carolina D, you need to re-evaluate.

Exactly this. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to lose Dermott to the draft so we would only look a acquiring a top 4 Dman if we're saying goodbye to Gardiner (which is probably the case).

 

[Egghead1999]

We also have to keep in mind the Seattle expansion draft.
Can we only protect 3 D?
Rielly then Muzzin/Gardiner/Dermott.

Then if we trade for a Carolina D, you need to re-evaluate.

Seattle is on June 2021; if leafs only signs Dermott for one year ext, leafs does not need to protect him.

 

[Mess]

Seattle is on June 2021; if leafs only sign Dermott for one year ext, leafs does not need to protect him.

Too far away to worry about protection lists in 2019 for 2021. IMO

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I think he would take 8×5 make it mostly singing bonus and keep him for the five yrs

Signing bonuses still count as part of the AAV. No way the Leafs have cap to sign Gardiner next year. And actually from a position of strength the Leafs are good at LHD, even with out Gardiner.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Signing bonuses still count as part of the AAV. No way the Leafs have cap to sign Gardiner next year. And actually from a position of strength the Leafs are good at LHD, even with out Gardiner.

We could sign him as a left winger

 

[Trapper]

Too far away to worry about protection lists in 2019 for 2021. IMO

For the fans sure.
But it’s never too early. If you aren’t thinking about Cap, contracts, asset management, UFA, expansion, why are you the GM.

Just hire a different guy every year.

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

I think it stays on the cap.

No he doesn't, its a 35+ deal.

Yea, pretty sure cap hit stays.

He has the option of “mutually terminating his contract” instead of “retiring” - which is essentially the same thing. It is almost cap circumvention but it is technically allowed.

If Marleau agreed to “mutual contract termination” the leafs could then hire him at 2 million a year for the next 30 years on a front office job, where he does nothing but make appearances, kiss babies and so on.

The league might be furious about it, but it’s all allowed.

 

[Nineteen67]

He has the option of “mutually terminating his contract” instead of “retiring” - which is essentially the same thing. It is almost cap circumvention but it is technically allowed.

If Marleau agreed to “mutual contract termination” the leafs could then hire him at 2 million a year for the next 30 years on a front office job, where he does nothing but make appearances, kiss babies and so on.

The league might be furious about it, but it’s all allowed.

Examples of cap circumvention from the CBA
26:15 e

“A Club and a Player, during the Player's active career, agree that upon the Player's retirement, he will receive a sum of money for services to be provided to the Club after retirement.”

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Examples of cap circumvention from the CBA
26:15 e

“A Club and a Player, during the Player's active career, agree that upon the Player's retirement, he will receive a sum of money for services to be provided to the Club after retirement.”

Right, during the players active career. Mutually terminate contract. Two days later. Make deal with club.

 

[Nineteen67]

Right, during the players active career. Mutually terminate contract. Two days later. Make deal with club.

It wouldn’t fly.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He has the option of “mutually terminating his contract” instead of “retiring” - which is essentially the same thing. It is almost cap circumvention but it is technically allowed.

If this is possible... this is what he does.

He got 3 years pay for 2 years anyway.

 

[Legion34]

It wouldn’t fly.

The nhl has allowed an injured player to both be on the roster of a team and be a member of the NHL player safety.

They let berglund go home. They let
Kovalchuk. And Richards.

They even let mario be an owner and a player at the same time I’m. Pretty sure

I’m not saying they will. But they just do whatever they want. They could. They have done a lot worse in the past

 

[Nineteen67]

The nhl has allowed an injured player to both be on the roster of a team and be a member of the NHL player safety.

They let berglund go home. They let
Kovalchuk. And Richards.

They even let mario be an owner and a player at the same time I’m. Pretty sure

I’m not saying they will. But they just do whatever they want. They could. They have done a lot worse in the past

When it’s obvious cap circumvention I’m not sure they’d be as accommodating. But if they are, I’m all for it.

 

[ashs]

is it wrong that I respect Jake more for this, and I respect nylander and mathews less because of what they signed for.

 

[Duke Silver]

Everyone who expects Marleau to just retire because we need him to is having a vivid pipe dream.

 

[member 157595]

Teams will offer 8 million per year? We're talking about Gardiner right? Jake Gardiner?

This is exactly how July 1st and onward is going to transpire re: Gardiner:

1) Jake Gardiner is going to sign a long-term deal for more money than he's worth with some other team
2) Leaf fans are going to dump on him too much for the brainfarts on the way out
3) The fans of the new team will brag about how good he is when he's not brainfarting and point to whatever advanced stats support that narrative
4) Gardiner will begin the season red-hot and new team's fans will gloat their asses off
5) Gardiner will start having the occasional hiccup and new team's fans will shrug it off
6) Said hiccups will gradually start coming more frequent and new team's fans will wonder if it's a pattern
7) One or more major brainfarts will occur in important moments for new team, making new team's fans wonder if they can coach him out of it
8) Gardiner will then go through a period of consistent play, the calm before the storm, and new team's fans relax
9) Just when new team's fans relax and Gardiner is given just a bit too much responsibility, he has a backbreaking collapse of a performance in an absolutely critical game, after which new team's fans make endless trade request threads on the main boards
10) Leafs fans sit back and say "we told you so."

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

We could sign him as a left winger

I am really going to be impressed when the puck is dumped into the corner and Gardiner is expected to do some banging to dig the puck out. When Gardiner is "bonehead" Jake...he's bad at his position despite being an LHD NHLer for 7 years. What's HIS learning curve as a winger?

 

[ITM]

Just did a rough estimate with Capfriendly. Assuming a cap of 83M (though McKenzie recently did a mock up with an 85M cap, which I found interesting)

- Marner, 6 years, 10.5M AAV
- Johnsson, Kapanen, 2 years, 2.75M AAV
- Gardiner, 8 years, 4M AAV
- Horton LTIR
- Marleau LTIR or somewhere
- Zaitsev traded for a pick

Leaves about 1.8Mish in cap room.

So it's possible if Gardiner doesn't get a raise, and Marleau and Zaitsev are moved.

I think Marleau moving is farfetched, so I did a scenario with him in the picture.

Marner is bridged, 3 years, 8M AAV
Zaitsev and Brown both dealt for picks
Leaves approx, 800K in cap room

KK at $2.75M per is your estimate or Bob McKenzie's?

If it's McKenzie's, that's actually encouraging given his generally cautious positions. If it's your estimate...Cor, I hope you're right. But I can't see KK coming in at Brown money. I see him somewhere in the middle, between Brown and Kadri: $3.5M/3yrs.

 

[Faltorvo]

Exactly this. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to lose Dermott to the draft so we would only look a acquiring a top 4 Dman if we're saying goodbye to Gardiner (which is probably the case).

are you not making a big leap that Muzz is still here?

 

[Faltorvo]

This is exactly how July 1st and onward is going to transpire re: Gardiner:

1) Jake Gardiner is going to sign a long-term deal for more money than he's worth with some other team
2) Leaf fans are going to dump on him too much for the brainfarts on the way out
3) The fans of the new team will brag about how good he is when he's not brainfarting and point to whatever advanced stats support that narrative
4) Gardiner will begin the season red-hot and new team's fans will gloat their asses off
5) Gardiner will start having the occasional hiccup and new team's fans will shrug it off
6) Said hiccups will gradually start coming more frequent and new team's fans will wonder if it's a pattern
7) One or more major brainfarts will occur in important moments for new team, making new team's fans wonder if they can coach him out of it
8) Gardiner will then go through a period of consistent play, the calm before the storm, and new team's fans relax
9) Just when new team's fans relax and Gardiner is given just a bit too much responsibility, he has a backbreaking collapse of a performance in an absolutely critical game, after which new team's fans make endless trade request threads on the main boards
10) Leafs fans sit back and say "we told you so."

LMAO ummm YUP, this sounds exactly like my advanced prediction of the

7 Million dollar FRAUD Dion Phaneuf , STILL the 10th highest D cap hit in the league (so much for those that said the league would catch up and make it look better)

Oh, did i mention the worst team in the league has been putting him in the pressbox lately.

 

[cannucky]

I am really going to be impressed when the puck is dumped into the corner and Gardiner is expected to do some banging to dig the puck out. When Gardiner is "bonehead" Jake...he's bad at his position despite being an LHD NHLer for 7 years. What's HIS learning curve as a winger?

Well since he played his jr hockey as a winger and was switched because of team need at the time I would expect a relatively flat curve . I guess it's been a relatively short and cloistered life there lifelonghockeyfan

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Everyone who expects Marleau to just retire because we need him to is having a vivid pipe dream.

He may not want to play that last season for such little money