TSN: Lebrun: Re-signing Jake Gardiner still an option

[Pookie]

Could you just not? For one thread, just restrain yourself.

I've listed a variety of options.

Not sign Gardiner
Not sign Kapanen
Not sign Hainsey
Trade Zaitsev
Trade this "HF untouchable"

Let's not get bent out of shape over one of the above.

 

[Bluelines]

you don't like to have good d-men?

We need someone to keep Holl company in the press box.

 

[Pookie]

We need someone to keep Holl company in the press box.

To work on the high fives?

 

[Bluelines]

I've listed a variety of options.

Not sign Gardiner
Not sign Kapanen
Not sign Hainsey
Trade Zaitsev
Trade this "HF untouchable"

Let's not get bent out of shape over one of the above.

When you have $22,000,000+ tied up in your two top centers, you have to make tough decisions.

Our LW is terribly weak in relation to our Center and RW positions, and I think it is about to get weaker for reasons I will explain below, how do you improve your top 2 LW positions and remain under the cap? You could "find" someone on the farm, you could move someone from your bottom 6, just because Kadri is a C on the "third" does not mean he wouldn't be a good fit on the 1st or 2nd line LW.

My gut tells me Johnsson is going to get moved, he has been part of rumors that Carolina wants him and its not just one mention, its been a constant theme. the reason why I think he will be moved is because he is arbitration eligible, the Leafs will not want to risk having him win his arb case and then have to pay him something that will blow out their cap. They would probably want to pay that 4 mil + to Pesce.

Toronto has sent one their VP's to watch the Carolina game tonight. I have to think that its either Pesce or Ferland.

In a perfect world we could move about 15 mill off our books before the start of next year, 6mil ish in Marleau, 4 mil -ish in Zaitsev and then another 4.5 to 5 mil in someone other players. Then we reinvest that in LW and defence.

 

[Bluelines]

To work on the high fives?

He;s photogenic, got great teeth for when they pan over to the pressbox...

 

[Duke Silver]

I've listed a variety of options.

Not sign Gardiner
Not sign Kapanen
Not sign Hainsey
Trade Zaitsev
Trade this "HF untouchable"

Let's not get bent out of shape over one of the above.

The sheer irony of you suggesting not to get bent out of shape about anything is side-splitting.

Up until that point of the thread, you wrote a snarky reply about someone not valuing good dmen (Gardiner) and then mentioned this "untouchable" player out of the blue.

If you were any more transparent, birds would be flying into you.

I'm pretty sure you could be asked how to cure world hunger and you'd suggest "trade Kadri".

Just stop. It's been more than 5 years of this.

 

[Nineteen67]

It’s funny that a guy who should want out would like to stay and take a discount, but the young guys want every penny they can get!

I think you’re confusing “fan think” with “player think”

 

[kb]

Do we really want to sign Gardiner with term having Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin, and Rosen as LD depth?

 

[Nineteen67]

Ask Marleau to retire and give him a front office job with a BS title like Leafs Ambassador to the Pacific West Coast. Pay him a truckload.

Ask Zeitsev very nicely if he will go play in Russia (or maybe he can be TML ambassador to Russia?)

Imo

That’d be a nice gesture but it doesn’t help the cap situation

 

[Egghead1999]

Do we really want to sign Gardiner with term having Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin, and Rosen as LD depth?

Can Sandin or Rosen be a NHL D?
For the right price (~4.5 AAV with no more 5 yrs), it is a no brainer

 

[kb]

No one said to take a paycut. It's the same cap hit. (His cap hit is like 4.050, I left out the 50K, which doesn't change anything).

Toronto could even go to 4.5M in scenario 1, and 5M in scenario 2.

It all comes down on how badly Gardiner wants to stay here. We also need to keep in mind Gardiner isn't exactly having a great year. On pace for his lowest point total since 15-16, and has looked his worst defensively in a few years as well.

So re-signing a declining asset long term?

 

[kb]

Can Sandin or Rosen be a NHL D?
For the right price (~4.5 AAV with no more 5 yrs), it is a no brainer

Frankly, it doesn't matter right now. We already know the first 3 are, and they are signed beyond this year. They just got Muzzin, so he's not being traded. Rielly is on a steal of a contract having a Norris caliber year, so he's not moving. Dermott is young and his trajectory is matching or exceeding Gardiner's, so he's not being moved.

Sandin looks like he will be ready in a year. Rosen can play now. And there is also Marincin and Borgman for depth.

 

[TMLeafer]

Everyone wants a piece of that 95% upfront signing bonus.

 

[Havoc]

I want to see Gardiner paired with someone competent (aka Zaitsev out the lineup) before I write him off.

Hopefully that AJ for Pesce rumor is true.

I think with someone like Pesce, Gardiner becomes a fan favorite again.

 

[kb]

I want to see Gardiner paired with someone competent (aka Zaitsev out the lineup) before I write him off.

Hopefully that AJ for Pesce rumor is true.

I think with someone like Pesce, Gardiner becomes a fan favorite again.

Just don't see A) the positional need, and B) the cap room required for what amounts to a luxury.

 

[RLF]

Gardiner gets underrated and overrated on here. He is a good #3.imo
Don't see a big need to re-sign when there is Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott all LHD. I would consider moving him before the TDL for a piece we could use now, especially if they had some term left.

 

[Havoc]

Just don't see A) the positional need, and B) the cap room required for what amounts to a luxury.

Wouldn't really call it a luxury. We've suffered atrocious defence for over a decade now.

Now's not the time to act like we're rich. If Gardiner can turn it around with a new partner, it's worth looking into a scenario where he stays. With Oz out of the lineup I'm getting a good look at Zaitsev and oh man......so bad.

 

[Egghead1999]

Frankly, it doesn't matter right now. We already know the first 3 are, and they are signed beyond this year. They just got Muzzin, so he's not being traded. Rielly is on a steal of a contract having a Norris caliber year, so he's not moving. Dermott is young and his trajectory is matching or exceeding Gardiner's, so he's not being moved.

Sandin looks like he will be ready in a year. Rosen can play now. And there is also Marincin and Borgman for depth.

Rielly will play on the right side. Leafs will need 3 LHD (Muzzin, Dermott, ??)

 

[kb]

Wouldn't really call it a luxury. We've suffered atrocious defence for over a decade now.

Now's not the time to act like we're rich. If Gardiner can turn it around with a new partner, it's worth looking into a scenario where he stays. With Oz out of the lineup I'm getting a good look at Zaitsev and oh man......so bad.

We aren't rich, and that is the whole point. We have 3 very good LD already. A 4th isn't needed. Should be looking at upgrading the RD now.

 

[kb]

Rielly will play on the right side. Leafs will need 3 LHD (Muzzin, Dermott, ??)

Rielly is ok on the right, a Norris caliber on the left.

Why hamstring your best defenseman by shifting him over to the right, just to sign a declining asset on a long term deal that the team cannot afford?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

In a perfect world we could move about 15 mill off our books

I regret to inform you .....

 

[HamiltonNHL]

We don't need LHD. Period.
If Dubas offers anything, which I doubt, it'll be a low offer.

 

[kb]

We don't need LHD. Period.
If Dubas offers anything, which I doubt, it'll be a low offer.

This ^^^^ requires repeating over and over again. Without Muzzin in the fold, a re-sign would have been far more likely. But now it is Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott on the LHD.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I've been saying for a while that there is an easy was keep Jake if the Leafs think he's really part of their core.

1. Trade Nylander and Brown and a 3rd round pick to Carolina for Pesce, Saarela, Kuokannen and a 1st round pick.
2. Trade a 2nd round pick and Patrick Marleau to Arizona or Florida, with an agreement for them to buy him out and have him resign in Toronto for 1 year at $3 million.
3. Trade Zaitsev for whatever you can, to whomever you can.
4. Resign Gardiner at 4.75 million long term.
5. Bridge Johnsson and Kapanen.
6. Sign Michael Ferland as a free agent.

Johnsson (3.0) / Matthews (11.6) / Kapanen (3.5)
Hyman (2.25) / Tavares (11.0) / Marner (10.5)
Marleau (3.0) / Kadri (4.5) / Ferland (3.5)
Saarela (900k) / Gauthier (833k) / Moore (775k)
Kuokannen (750k)

Muzzin (4.0) / Reilly (5.0)
Gardiner (4.75) / Pesce (4.0)
Dermott (863k) / Rosen (750k)
Holl (675k)

Anderson (5.0)
Sparks (1.0)

Phil Kessel (1.5)

Total: $82,646,000

IMO, that's a better, more balanced team than Toronto puts on the ice right now, with a couple more million to play with if the cap winds up being higher than $83,000,000. Also, you add another 1st round pick to keep your prospect pool rich, or to ship in season if you want to upgrade closer to the deadline. As well, you land a couple of Carolina's best prospects in Kuokannen and Saarela. Kuokannen is a 6'1, 190lb C, LW who is close to a point per game in the AHL and has been really impressive. Saarela is a 23 year old 5'11, 185lb left wing who can really skate. He's leading Charlotte in scoring at a near point per game clip and will be NHL ready heading into next season. Both prospects easily project into the top 9 heading forward and I think Carolina would be willing to ship them for a upper tier talent to play with Aho and it leaves them with their top center prospect in their system in Julian Gauthier (former 1st rounder).

 

[The Man with a Plan]

That is indeed the dream, let the prayers begin.

I'll do you one better...

Patty, Z and Brown all moved for picks

AJ in for PM
Moore in for Brown
Z replaced by Rosen or Borgman

I actually like Zs game he just got paid too much to be a 3rd pairing D.