Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 7-4. Good response

Gary Nylund

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Starts exclusively on the PP and the Ozone with Matthew's line.

Same thing happened in Colorado. That's why they moved him.

No one needs to overpay a guy who you need to shelter that hard

They moved him because they wanted Kadri, Barrie was signed for only one more year and their D had enough talent to be able to withstand the loss. Barrie is a very good hockey player.
 

LeafingTheWay

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Starts exclusively on the PP and the Ozone with Matthew's line.

Same thing happened in Colorado. That's why they moved him.

No one needs to overpay a guy who you need to shelter that hard

Those are even-strength numbers, so doesn't account for powerplay usage. Regardless of whoever he's playing with, he's fantastic offensively which is what he's known for.

That's how he's helping the team. No one else on this team can do that (other than a healthy Rielly). Next season I'd look to move on from him because Rielly will return healthy and takeover the best-offensive D role.
 
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Duffman955

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They moved him because they wanted Kadri, Barrie was signed for only one more year and their D had enough talent to be able to withstand the loss. Barrie is a very good hockey player.

They moved him because they had plenty of better Dmen
 

Duffman955

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Those are even-strength numbers, so doesn't account for powerplay usage. Regardless of whoever he's playing with, he's fantastic offensively which is what he's known for.

That's how he's helping the team. No one else on this team can do that (other than a healthy Rielly). Next season I'd look to move on from him because Rielly will return healthy and takeover the best-offensive D role.

Look how he plays. Pinches all the time, forces forwards to cover for him at all times.

Always odd man rushes the other way. Always starts in ozone.

Might as well call him a mediocre winger.
 

Mess

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Freddie does deserve some critiquing at the moment, I'll separate the posters into legitimate concerns and those with three year hangups always looking for a chance to say "told you so".

I wonder why Barrie gets little flack for horrible offensive decision making when we are up big and just need to ride out the minutes for a victory? That's the kind of tone deaf play that drives a coach wild, I assure you.

Barrie plays like a Rover and he does it regardless of game script.
 

JT AM da real deal

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They moved him because they wanted Kadri, Barrie was signed for only one more year and their D had enough talent to be able to withstand the loss. Barrie is a very good hockey player.
He is a very good offensive hockey player yes. But he is not a complete player. When you lack defensive skills, ability to hit and ability to withstand a hit you can't ever be considered a very good hockey player.
 

Gary Nylund

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They moved him because they had plenty of better Dmen

He is a very good offensive hockey player yes. But he is not a complete player. When you lack defensive skills, ability to hit and ability to withstand a hit you can't ever be considered a very good hockey player.

I think he's a lot better than you guys think and I think most COL fans agree with me.
 

Gary Nylund

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Yep. Playoff bound teams do not trade their "#1" dman on a low cap hit. Now we are seeing why they traded him. Hes awful

They needed a quality centre badly, gotta give to get. And they were strong on D so they were dealing from a position of strength. Same thing if we were to trade a forward for help on D, it's not that the guy we trade sucks, it's just that you gotta give to get and sometimes you deal from a position where you're strong to shore up a position where you're weak.

We get it, Barrie's not a perfect hockey player and he's not strong defensively. He's so good at other things though that overall, he's quite good.
 

JT AM da real deal

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I think he's a lot better than you guys think and I think most COL fans agree with me.
Most hockey people believe Sakic traded him because his demands at 8M AAV were outlandish and he had a young kid who could do everything Barrie could do and more. He is a nice PP guy to have on your team at 4M AAV or less if you don't already have that type of guy. We do and another kid ready to break up to big team. So we don't need him.
 

Erdinger

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Getting Barrie for a $2M cap hit this year was crucial. Sure he's been a disappointment but with the cap squeeze this team was in it was something that had to be done to shore up the D on the relative cheap
 

Rants Mulliniks

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It doesn't have to be either/or.
Perhaps the area in between would be the more successful approach?
Continue to press but stay on the right side of the puck.

I agree but teams rarely do this. The biggest problem with trying to kill the clock is if you fail, you usually struggle to get your attack going again.

Go for the jugular. Responsibly but go for the jugular.
 
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GoonieFace

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They needed a quality centre badly, gotta give to get. And they were strong on D so they were dealing from a position of strength. Same thing if we were to trade a forward for help on D, it's not that the guy we trade sucks, it's just that you gotta give to get and sometimes you deal from a position where you're strong to shore up a position where you're weak.

We get it, Barrie's not a perfect hockey player and he's not strong defensively. He's so good at other things though that overall, he's quite good.

Isnt Kerfoot a quality C? Cause they gave him up in the trade as well. You can never have enough D, and them trading him should have been a huge red flag. I mean he just came off a 59 point season, and they had to add Kerfoot to get Kadri. Shows how much Colorado thought he was worth
 
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egd27

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I agree. But when I re-watched that goal after the game, it looked like half of the blame should go to the forward.

That was a fantastic scoring-chance. IMO, Engvall should have rotated up high when Barrie went to support Nylander for the one-timer. Our D make that play routinely, and Holl/Sandin also did it in their following shifts (Sandin and Holl went deep for scoring chances while the F covered them).

I think that's what the team needs to tighten up in. Defensemen need to make smarter pinches and forwards need to follow the system to make smarter defensive decisions.

  • Engvall had made the initial pass to Nylander behind the net from deep in the Ozone (right side).
  • He then then went to the right corner to provide Nylander with an option as all 5 Devils had collapsed in front of the net
  • If Barrie had stayed on his point, Nylander had options to either skate it out the left side, pass to Barrie at the left point, or put it back to Engvall in the right corner
  • Barrie sees he has two wingers below the goal line, and his centre tied up in front of the net and still decides to pinch knowing that he's leaving his partner as the only man back

If you're behind and need a goal, it was the right play.
In a 6-1 blowout, it was a bonehead play.
 
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Gary Nylund

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Most hockey people believe Sakic traded him because his demands at 8M AAV were outlandish and he had a young kid who could do everything Barrie could do and more. He is a nice PP guy to have on your team at 4M AAV or less if you don't already have that type of guy. We do and another kid ready to break up to big team. So we don't need him.

They had Makar who's amazing, that doesn't mean Barrie isn't good. And no, we don't have a Makar on our team, nor is our D overall as deep as COL.

Isnt Kerfoot a quality C? Cause they gave him up in the trade as well. You can never have enough D, and them trading him should have been a huge red flag. I mean he just came off a 59 point season, and they had to add Kerfoot to get Kadri. Shows how much Colorado thought he was worth

Kerfoot is a quality centre, I'm sure almost everyone would agree that Kadri is higher quality.

If trading a player means "red flag" then almost everyone who has ever played in the NHL has a "red flag". Doesn't make much sense to me.

Barrie had one year left on his contract which reduces his trade value, pretty straightforward stuff.
 
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kevsh

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After Freddie gets shelled in Florida, and with a 6-1 lead the Leafs should have shut the door and made it their primary focus to not let NJ get back into the game. Instead they played like it was shinny and seemed intent on running up the score.

The Leafs can score goals. They know it, the fans know it, anyone that can spell 'NHL' knows it. But this was a chance to rally around their starter and shut down a weak offensive team. Instead they let the Devils - one of the league's most impotent offenses - get 4 and make it interesting enough they pulled their own goalie.

Unless this team learns how to shut down teams, they're going to have to keep scoring 6+ a night to make the playoffs.
 

glue

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Assuming Muzzin comes back for Nashville game, Leafs could go defence pairings like this:
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Marancin-Barrie

Dermott has played the right side before, could work right. I mean would Dermott on the right be worse then Ceci ? Also if the Muzzin rumours are true, next year could be:

Muzzin-Holl
Reilly-Dermott
Sandin-Lilly

That looks pretty solid to me
 
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Schooner

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After Freddie gets shelled in Florida, and with a 6-1 lead the Leafs should have shut the door and made it their primary focus to not let NJ get back into the game. Instead they played like it was shinny and seemed intent on running up the score.

The Leafs can score goals. They know it, the fans know it, anyone that can spell 'NHL' knows it. But this was a chance to rally around their starter and shut down a weak offensive team. Instead they let the Devils - one of the league's most impotent offenses - get 4 and make it interesting enough they pulled their own goalie.

Unless this team learns how to shut down teams, they're going to have to keep scoring 6+ a night to make the playoffs.
Then maybe tell Fred to make a save? Leafs are far from perfect defensively, but at least 2/4 should have been saveable pucks.
 

JT AM da real deal

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After Freddie gets shelled in Florida, and with a 6-1 lead the Leafs should have shut the door and made it their primary focus to not let NJ get back into the game. Instead they played like it was shinny and seemed intent on running up the score.

The Leafs can score goals. They know it, the fans know it, anyone that can spell 'NHL' knows it. But this was a chance to rally around their starter and shut down a weak offensive team. Instead they let the Devils - one of the league's most impotent offenses - get 4 and make it interesting enough they pulled their own goalie.

Unless this team learns how to shut down teams, they're going to have to keep scoring 6+ a night to make the playoffs.
This is what we are. You are going to have to wrap your head around it. I personally think more defenders would help. But this is Dubie's team now and he wants high pace high skill and high scoring hockey. We are going to have to outscore our defensive issues. We can't shut down anyone. But you have to admit it is a lot of fun to watch these guys score. and they do it really well. Also we are going to have to really yell and scream at refs in late season and maybe playoff hockey to call every interference, elbow, board and stick infraction on us when we face Bruins again. As games tighten up and refs start to change their method of calling games we must ensure Leafs get regular season officiating. Keefe knows how to do it. Guys will be falling like Euros all over the ice. Unfortunately everything will have to get exaggerated. We will need everyone to Kadri.
 
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ACC1224

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After Freddie gets shelled in Florida, and with a 6-1 lead the Leafs should have shut the door and made it their primary focus to not let NJ get back into the game. Instead they played like it was shinny and seemed intent on running up the score.

The Leafs can score goals. They know it, the fans know it, anyone that can spell 'NHL' knows it. But this was a chance to rally around their starter and shut down a weak offensive team. Instead they let the Devils - one of the league's most impotent offenses - get 4 and make it interesting enough they pulled their own goalie.

Unless this team learns how to shut down teams, they're going to have to keep scoring 6+ a night to make the playoffs.
I said pretty much the same thing after the Carolina game and it didn't go over very well.
The Team is what they are. Doesn't seem like a recipe for success though.
 

LeafingTheWay

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They moved him because they had plenty of better Dmen

Nope. Barrie was their best RHD at the time. However, a team really only needs one offensive D-man per side (I.e one lefty, one righty). They already had Erik Johnson as their shutdown defensive RHD and they had Cale Makar coming up, who they knew was an offensive beast as well. No sane person would pick a 29 year old RHD over a similar 20 year old RHD.

Isnt Kerfoot a quality C? Cause they gave him up in the trade as well. You can never have enough D, and them trading him should have been a huge red flag. I mean he just came off a 59 point season, and they had to add Kerfoot to get Kadri. Shows how much Colorado thought he was worth

That's like comparing Morgan Rielly to Travis Dermott. Dermott is a quality D, but no sane person would take him over Rielly. Similarly, no sane person would take Kerfoot over Kadri 1 for 1. Hence the upgrade for Colorado.

Look how he plays. Pinches all the time, forces forwards to cover for him at all times.

Always odd man rushes the other way. Always starts in ozone.

Might as well call him a mediocre winger.

What's wrong with that? Take a look at ANY team and they have a D-man like that.

Barrie ranks 40th in offensive-zone starts. Torey Krug, Victor Hedman, Rasmus Dahlin, Seth Jones, Werenski, etc all start in the offensive-zone more. Heck, look at players like Brent Burns or Rasmus Dahlin. Brent Burns would be called the worst D-man ever if he was on our team. I've said it before, but I would never want some of my favourite NHL players to play for Toronto lol (would ruin it for me). Lidsrom would be called the softest D-man ever.

Believe it or not, players like this exist around the league and are considered stars on other teams.
 
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LeafingTheWay

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  • Engvall had made the initial pass to Nylander behind the net from deep in the Ozone (right side).
  • He then then went to the right corner to provide Nylander with an option as all 5 Devils had collapsed in front of the net
  • If Barrie had stayed on his point, Nylander had options to either skate it out the left side, pass to Barrie at the left point, or put it back to Engvall in the right corner
  • Barrie sees he has two wingers below the goal line, and his centre tied up in front of the net and still decides to pinch knowing that he's leaving his partner as the only man back
If you're behind and need a goal, it was the right play.
In a 6-1 blowout, it was a bonehead play.

I'm not blaming 100% on Engvall, it's blame for both Barrie and Engvall. Both didn't make the smart decisions.

If I were Barrie, I would do that pinch BUT then hold onto the puck to continue the cycle, not shoot the puck.
If I were Engvall, I would rotate to the point (don't get caught puck-watching). That's a standard Sheldon Keefe offensive zone play. Even if Barrie doesn't shoot it, the far-side winger needs to always rotates to the point immediately.

Here, take a look at the sequence of events below.
  • All NJ players are on opposite side of ice, completely leaving a high-danger option to Barrie.
  • Nylander sees Barrie and passes it to him. At this point, the far-wing forward is supposed to immediately rotate up high. Engvall begins doing this.
  • Barrie receives the puck and shoots it (high-danger chance). Engvall suddenly changes direction to look at the net for a rebound.
  • Rebound pops out, and Engvall completely stops and goes for the rebound.
  • No Leaf gets the rebound and NJ gets out on a 2-on-1.
View attachment 308107
View attachment 308109
View attachment 308105
 

mix1home

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Good win overall. Andersen still gives me no confidence.
Well, skaters give me no confidence. Allowed multiple one-on-ones and left players uncovered four feet from the net and no goalie can stop all of those (and Fred did stop couple).
 

Martin Skoula

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I said pretty much the same thing after the Carolina game and it didn't go over very well.
The Team is what they are. Doesn't seem like a recipe for success though.

I'd be worried about the offense translating to the playoffs if we were built around trading rushes, but the way we cycle is a good fit for tighter games IMO. 7 games of their defense having to run around for a minute or more at a time is going to add up.
 
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