Series Talk: Leafs vs Jackets- Series Preview and Discussion - MOD WARNING POST #816

[stickty111]

Let's also remember this fact. Last year was the first time a John Tortorella coached team won a playoff series since 2013. These were the previous results of Tortorella's Blue Jackets teams in the playoffs.

In 2017 the Blue Jackets lost in 5 games to Pittsburgh.

In 2018 the Blue Jackets blew a 2-0 series lead after winning Games 1 & 2 on the road, losing to Washington 4-2.

Yeah but aren't they supposed to have 3 different sysyems all at once, why did Torts lose those series then?

 

[stickty111]

Agreed, that’s what I said.

So why were the Jackets this low in the standings, despite 3 completely different systems at once?

 

[stickty111]

I think its only when the other team gets .856sv% goaltending.

Maybe the Jackets superness caused the goaltending to be bad?

 

[stickty111]

Toronto also ended up #8 due to points percentage and Columbus was #9. So if anything the Blue Jackets were more of a bubble team.

Kind of strange when their team is so good apparently

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yup the Leafs will do that as well. Leafs likely go all out on attack in the O zone, and then shut things down in their blueline.
Wierd how the 3 systems things applies to the Jackets, but not the Leafs.

Agreed again, you need to read the context of the post I was referring to, I was commenting on there is different plans depending on which zone your in, no teams were in the context, it was style in general. Bit of reading comprehension I guess.

 

[IPS]

@Mess you do realize we have a coach, too...right?

These long novels you are writing about how Torts will do this and that...you make it seem like we are going up against the Jackets with no gameplan of our own.

Yeah what are we going to do without Mike Babcock leaning on Marleau and Brown to tie a game up in the 3rd period and making injured players take faceoffs on the PK.

We only became the best offensive team in the league under Keefe, surely we didn't play any defensive juggernauts like Columbus along the way.

 

[Golden_Jet]

So why were the Jackets this low in the standings, despite 3 completely different systems at once?

Nobody said at once, like usual making crap up.
Why are 30 teams not in first place..

Edit: Please go show me where I said a team employs 3 different systems at once, I’ll see what you come up with, tired of you putting words in my mouth.

 

[IPS]

So is it confirmed that we're just this horrific defensive team that can only win games with run and gun hockey or am I off the mark here?

We actually finished 16th in GA/GP under Keefe. Are we going to get lit up like a christmas tree against Columbus' world class offense?

 

[stickty111]

Agreed again, you need to read the context of the post I was referring to, I was commenting on there is different plans depending on which zone your in, no teams were in the context, it was style in general. Bit of reading comprehension I guess.

Your context was to make the Leafs look bad because of the 3 system sudden change Jackets can do.
If your going to use this nonexistent 3 system change for the Jackets, you better use it for the Leafs, but your argument was all going against the Leafs.
A team can either have a heavy forecheck system, a trap style or a balanced. You can't shift from one to another in seconds. You can use certain aspects from each, but a system doesn't change completely just because it got beat once.

 

[stickty111]

Yeah what are we going to do without Mike Babcock leaning on Marleau and Brown to tie a game up in the 3rd period and making injured players take faceoffs on the PK.

We only became the best offensive team in the league under Keefe, surely we didn't play any defensive juggernauts like Columbus along the way.

"Never say never to a Mike Babcock coached team".

 

[Golden_Jet]

Your context was to make the Leafs look bad because of the 3 system sudden change Jackets can do.
If your going to use this nonexistent 3 system change for the Jackets, you better use it for the Leafs, but your argument was all going against the Leafs.
A team can either have a heavy forecheck system, a trap style or a balanced. You can't shift from one to another in seconds. You can use certain aspects from each, but a system doesn't change completely just because it got beat once.

And yet again, with the twisted words, I said teams play differently in the 3 zones, all 31 teams do this.

I’m waiting for you to show me where I said 3 systems at once btw.

 

[stickty111]

And yet again, with the twisted words, I said teams play differently in the 3 zones, all 31 teams do this.

I’m waiting for you to show me where I said 3 systems at once btw.

Absolutely you can, teams don’t employ one tactic.
Ferocious forecheck when deep in leafs zone, f1 and f2, with f3 high in case they don’t gain possession.
if leafs gain possession then switch to a disciplined trap, jeez that’s not rocket science.

Also huge back pressure from forwards.

You said here heavy forecheck, and then trap after that. You can't change them in seconds. The users below explained it to you well. Tactics are not the same thing as system in each zone.
Also backchecking is not a trap.

If they don't gain possession f1 and 2 are trapped behind the play, hard to set up a trap when we've already gained the zone.

nah, that is not how that works.

sending multiple guys in on the forecheck is by definition not trapping.

a trap isn't just "get back on defense when the other teams gets the puck".

Nowhere have I said that, you just make crap up.

Backchecking is part of team defence, not just hoping your defenseman gets the guy.
One example , backchecking allows a defenseman to step up into a player and stop him from entering your zone, not always backing in.

Well that’s obvious since there are 3 zones, where different game plans exist

You said it here again

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yeah but aren't they supposed to have 3 different sysyems all at once, why did Torts lose those series then?

Kind of strange when their team is so good apparently

Some people will look for any excuses why the Leafs will lose and give them no chance to defeat a team.

Yes I know they lost their previous playoff series to Washington and 2x against Boston. However going into each of those series it was said Toronto will lose in 4 or 5 games in 2017, 2018, and 2019.

Instead every game against Washington was decided by 1 goal, plus 5/6 games went into overtime.

Against Boston those series went to a Game 7. Hell if it wasn't for Mike Babcock's decisions last year when Toronto was up 3-2 going into Game 6, they might win that game and the series which they should have.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Running the trap is what low budget teams have to do to survive, they can't afford the types of players you need to run a strong offense. Playing low-event hockey doesn't necessarily mean you're outplaying the other team defensively if you're neutering your offense more than you're stopping the other team. Their offense is the 3rd worst in the league and they're -8 in goal differential on the year.

It's one thing when Boston can play that kind of defense while controlling the game and scoring at will. When Arizona and Columbus do it to just barely tread water, they're not actually in control of the game, they're just trying to hold on until OT so they can get first round playoff revenue.

I would tend to agree, low budget teams trap/lock more than higher budget teams.,but it’s not just them, Babcock did as well, or wanted the team to, did it before he came to Toronto.

It can more depend on the particular coach, some coaches don’t change their philosophy, not sure why.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You said here heavy forecheck, and then trap after that. You can't change them in seconds. The users below explained it to you well. Tactics are not the same thing as system in each zone.
Also backchecking is not a trap.

You said here heavy forecheck, and then trap after that. You can't change them in seconds. The users below explained it to you well. Tactics are not the same thing as system in each zone.
Also backchecking is not a trap.








You said it here again

You said it here again

Yep I said they play differently in all 3 zones, you said I said they play 3 systems all at the same instance, which I denied, and you failed to show, but appreciate the effort in trying I’d say.

You quoted what I said on backchecking, one example, backchecking allows a defenseman to step up into a player and stop him from entering your zone, not always backing in. Part of the neutral zone

 

[Martin Skoula]

I would tend to agree, low budget teams trap/lock more than higher budget teams.,but it’s not just them, Babcock did as well, or wanted the team to, did it before he came to Toronto.

It can more depend on the particular coach, some coaches don’t change their philosophy, not sure why.

Babcock trapping with the lineup he had when he first came here makes sense, you're not going to run PA Parenteau head to head against Crosby and hope to win 5-4.

But again, that's an example of a bad team running a trap because they have no other choice. Forcing a low-event game increases the chances that a bad bounce or deflection results in the game deciding goal. That's a good way to improve your odds of getting to OT against a good team, but that doesn't really work when OT points no longer matter in the playoffs.

The trap also doesn't have a way to deal with forwards who are bigger, faster, and more skilled than you cycling for full shifts at a time. Sure, it reduces how often those cycles happen, but they're still going to happen. Now, the refs may decide to look the other way on hooking holding and interference against the cycle, but that's not something Columbus can control.

To me, it comes down to whether or not Columbus can hold on long enough to let us beat ourselves, I don't see a situation where they're actually dictating the pace of play and in control of the game.

 

[Mess]

I concur ... it likely comes right down to PP ... and over 5 games our skill will show through ... the only way i see this going sideways is tending ... Keefe while a rook coach is a very smart and savvy guy ... he will make the in game adjustments necessary to win

I think a key for Leafs success is that its critical they start on time and try and get out ahead early and force CBJ to chase the game.. That would take away the opponents best weapon of trapping the Leafs and force them to open up in order to generate more offense for a team that is not blessed with a lot of high end offensive talent, resulting in more opportunities for the Leafs quick strike offense to put the game to rest.

If the Leafs fall behind by 2 or 3 they will have they will have the oxygen sucked out the building and get suffocated.

For the last 30 games of the year Freddy have been giving the Leafs sub .900 sv%. He has to be on his game and not give up easy goals against. He is probably the biggest key to Leafs winning as goaltending as in most series is key to success. He has the playoff experience and lived through the pressure and CBJ young goalies while strong in the regular season have zero playoff experience and might crumble under the pressure. You have to like the 48 games playoff experience Andersen has here.

As mentioned Leafs PP must be effective as their best opportunities for high grade scoring chances will likely come while up a man, and a dangerous PP will limit the physical attention you receive if it leads to CBJ spending more time in the box. Columbus #12 PK% 81.7 is better than Leafs at #21 PK% @ 77.7, so Leafs specialty teams play will need to be in a positive net result position at end of game.

Leafs greatest strength heading into the series is their offense and biggest mismatch, so its important that Leafs 4 best offensive threats and weapons are factors in the series likely needing PPG production at minimum. If some of Leafs big guns don't show up Leafs chances decrease of advancing. All hands on deck !!!.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Babcock trapping with the lineup he had when he first came here makes sense, you're not going to run PA Parenteau head to head against Crosby and hope to win 5-4.

But again, that's an example of a bad team running a trap because they have no other choice. Forcing a low-event game increases the chances that a bad bounce or deflection results in the game deciding goal. That's a good way to improve your odds of getting to OT against a good team, but that doesn't really work when OT points no longer matter in the playoffs.

The trap also doesn't have a way to deal with forwards who are bigger, faster, and more skilled than you cycling for full shifts at a time. Sure, it reduces how often those cycles happen, but they're still going to happen. Now, the refs may decide to look the other way on hooking holding and interference against the cycle, but that's not something Columbus can control.

To me, it comes down to whether or not Columbus can hold on long enough to let us beat ourselves, I don't see a situation where they're actually dictating the pace of play and in control of the game.

Agreed,
I will say though all 31 teams trap to a certain degree when they are on defence, looking to make a turnover and quickly transition the other way.

 

[zeke]

1. Coaching is EVERYTHING!

2. We must ignore what the leafs have done under their current coach!

 

[Martin Skoula]

Agreed,
I will say though all 31 teams trap to a certain degree when they are on defence, looking to make a turnover and quickly transition the other way.

You can't trap "on defense" though. The trap is a 3-zone system, you can't play offense the same way as a non-trap team if you run the trap. You can't "just" trap when you're in the defensive zone, the whole point is to avoid playing there by clogging up the neutral zone.

How would we start trapping when our offensive zone gameplan involves having one or both of our defensemen pinching as far as going behind the net?

Some teams might switch to a full or partial trap when they're up 2-3 goals with 10 minutes left, but that means they also completely change how they play in the offensive zone.

 

[Merrrlin]

So is it confirmed that we're just this horrific defensive team that can only win games with run and gun hockey or am I off the mark here?

We actually finished 16th in GA/GP under Keefe. Are we going to get lit up like a christmas tree against Columbus' world class offense?

Columbus will be leaning on Elvis harder than Boston leaned on Thomas for their cup.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You can't trap "on defense" though. The trap is a 3-zone system, you can't play offense the same way as a non-trap team if you run the trap. You can't "just" trap when you're in the defensive zone, the whole point is to avoid playing there by clogging up the neutral zone.

How would we start trapping when our offensive zone gameplan involves having one or both of our defensemen pinching as far as going behind the net?

Some teams might switch to a full or partial trap when they're up 2-3 goals with 10 minutes left, but that means they also completely change how they play in the offensive zone.

I should of said neutral zone for my example.
I wouldn’t use the word trap in your own zone

 

[Martin Skoula]

Also, for people bringing up New Jersey taking down Detroit 30 years ago, you guys know that New Jersey paced for 230+ goals that season right? Their offense in their competitive years was similar to Tampa's offense in recent years with seasons of 306, 295, 251 goals for.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Also, for people bringing up New Jersey taking down Detroit 30 years ago, you guys know that New Jersey paced for 230+ goals that season right? Their offense in their competitive years was similar to Tampa's offense in recent years with seasons of 306, 295, 251 goals for.

That’s a good point, I remember Jacques martins senators getting accused of boring trap, even though led the league or top 3 in goals.

 

[Menzinger]

What happens in a prior year doesn’t have any bearing on what will happen this year. The Leafs have been terribly inconsistent this year and many see a team like Columbus as the type of team that could cause them trouble.
I believe the Leafs skill will win out. What some see as underrating others may see as reality.

Yes and no - the core is the same. We know they are capable of playing well in the postseason against good teams that were known for their defensive ability and physicality.

I think some folks are building the Blue Jackets up in this thread to a level they simply arent capable of reaching.