Confirmed with Link: Leafs to sign Pär Lindholm

[kindalaidback]

it does hurt our winger depth because he is arguably our best transition player. you need guys like those on the wing. look what the f***ing rest of our team does-- stretch passes and dump-and-chase.

 

[Fogelhund]

Moving Nylander to C, likely means we have to go out and either sign (and overpay), or trade (and overpay), for a quality winger to play with Matthews, in order to keep our lines balanced. I'm not opposed to this, Kovalchuk, if he were interested for example.

Bottom line, moving Nylander doesn't solve anything, it just moves the pieces around the board, with a hole opening up elsewhere.

 

[kindalaidback]

also, its not really about if he can play center in the future (i'm his biggest fan, i don't doubt his offensive skills, lol), its about if babcock and this organization still see him as a center for this team. and i don't care about something babcock said 5 million years ago, plans can change obviously (e.g. still not happy with his defensive game, might think he is better suited on the wings; the way matthews and nylander play with each other etc.)
i think he would've said so if he thinks william will play at c next season.

 

[Boutette]

It certainly hurts our high end depth.

Hyman marner
Marleau brown
Kapanen Johnsson
Grundstrom???

So on the top line we look good. Kadri line all of a sudden turns to a grinding line... nylander I assume would C kap and Andreas... could be a good line but very unproven.

Every line that marner joined became a scoring threat. By putting him with Matthews, we can no longer roll 3 scoring lines.

Why can't Johnsson or Kapanen play with Matthews (or maybe even Bracco for his playmaking abilities - its not like Matthews hasn't excelled with rookies on his wing before). We also have Martin and Leivo and potentially can resign Komarov as a 4th liner where he is not terrible. And that's before we draw from the Marlies one or two rookies after seeing what they can do in the playoffs and in the pre-season.

We had no problem inserting rookies like Hyman, Brown, Nylander and Marner, as well as Kapanen and Johnsson over the past 2 years. They were all *unproven* before making the team and are now viewed as fixtures. What is the problem now with adding the likes of Leivo or Bracco or Marchment or Brooks into the mix for next year? Bracco has been repeatedly praised for having elite playmaking abilities by Keefe and both he and Brooks were point a game players when pulled up from 5 minutes a game 4th line usage. Leivo has done well when given the chance and Marchment has offered a Hyman like progression on the Marlies.

 

[Boutette]

Moving Nylander to C, likely means we have to go out and either sign (and overpay), or trade (and overpay), for a quality winger to play with Matthews, in order to keep our lines balanced. I'm not opposed to this, Kovalchuk, if he were interested for example.

Bottom line, moving Nylander doesn't solve anything, it just moves the pieces around the board, with a hole opening up elsewhere.

We have half a dozen AHLers who could be promoted next year on the wing. We promoted half a dozen players from junior/the ahl over the past 2 years. Are the leafs now a no-rookies allowed roster?

 

[Fogelhund]

We have half a dozen AHLers who could be promoted next year on the wing. We promoted half a dozen players from junior/the ahl over the past 2 years. Are the leafs now a no-rookies allowed roster?

With the probability that JvR and Komarov are gone... that is already two spots opening for rookies, not to mention Kapanen moving in at the expense of Martin sitting, and Kap only had 38 games in the regular season this year. So, we are already looking at three players, with less than a season under their belts in the lineup next year. Plus, either Aaltonen and Lindholm as the #4C, so that's FOUR rookies.

After you add Johnsson, Kapanen maybe Grundstrom and either Aaltonen or Lindholm.... who then also moves into the lineup that is a Nylander replacement? Timashov, Bracco?

 

[Buds17]

also, its not really about if he can play center in the future (i'm his biggest fan, i don't doubt his offensive skills, lol), its about if babcock and this organization still see him as a center for this team. and i don't care about something babcock said 5 million years ago, plans can change obviously (e.g. still not happy with his defensive game, might think he is better suited on the wings; the way matthews and nylander play with each other etc.)
i think he would've said so if he thinks william will play at c next season.

I imagine he doesn't want to box himself in with anything absolute at this point, which is wise.

Nylander definitely at C also essentially means no chance of Tavares becoming a Leaf. Even if that's an unlikely possibility, there's always that chance while he remains unsigned and there's no point in closing doors for several reasons.

They'll have a list of plans for any possible C vacancies next season. I can see how Nylander there might not be Plan A, but so much depends on what ideas they have and what they will or won't be able to accomplish.

 

[Liminality]

With the probability that JvR and Komarov are gone... that is already two spots opening for rookies, not to mention Kapanen moving in at the expense of Martin sitting, and Kap only had 38 games in the regular season this year. So, we are already looking at three players, with less than a season under their belts in the lineup next year. Plus, either Aaltonen and Lindholm as the #4C, so that's FOUR rookies.

After you add Johnsson, Kapanen maybe Grundstrom and either Aaltonen or Lindholm.... who then also moves into the lineup that is a Nylander replacement? Timashov, Bracco?

I think you're worrying about a spot lower down in the depth chart. Maybe not replacing Nylander's exact spot.

Hyman-Matthews-Kapanen/Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Marner/Kapanen
Johnsson-Nylander-Brown
Grundstrom?-Lindholm?-someone?

I don't think them being rookies is too much of an issue. Johnsson is an older rookie, Grundstrom seems to be a good fit for Babcock's system and Kap seems like he should be with the team full time after everything he's done. I wouldn't mind grabbing maybe a cheap vet ufa for the bottom rw spot. Someone like Joel Ward or Wingels.

Of course none of this matters if Tavares signs here.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Exactly. Just because they have offensive skill in the AHL does not mean they’re top 6 players that can hang on one of the better offensive teams in the NHL. There’s a lot of grass is greener stuff that goes on in this board. The reality is that Kapanen and Johnsson would struggle to hit 50 points with prime minutes, although Johnsson might actually be a diamond in the rough based on his play last year.

Guys like Bracco and Timashov need to prove themselves before they move up. Johnsson was the guy on the Marlies, so was Dermott and so was Kapanen.

 

[barilko05]

Perfect. Now all we have to do is trade for the other two Lindholms (Hampus, Elias). Then we can all watch Don Cherry's head explode together!!

 

[Boutette]

With the probability that JvR and Komarov are gone... that is already two spots opening for rookies, not to mention Kapanen moving in at the expense of Martin sitting, and Kap only had 38 games in the regular season this year. So, we are already looking at three players, with less than a season under their belts in the lineup next year. Plus, either Aaltonen and Lindholm as the #4C, so that's FOUR rookies.

After you add Johnsson, Kapanen maybe Grundstrom and either Aaltonen or Lindholm.... who then also moves into the lineup that is a Nylander replacement? Timashov, Bracco?

And this has worked out miserably for the Leafs over the last two years, hasn't it? I mean, its kept them in the bottom 10 right?

 

[Boutette]

Exactly. Just because they have offensive skill in the AHL does not mean they’re top 6 players that can hang on one of the better offensive teams in the NHL. There’s a lot of grass is greener stuff that goes on in this board. The reality is that Kapanen and Johnsson would struggle to hit 50 points with prime minutes, although Johnsson might actually be a diamond in the rough based on his play last year.

Guys like Bracco and Timashov need to prove themselves before they move up. Johnsson was the guy on the Marlies, so was Dermott and so was Kapanen.

Bracco has been repeatedly praised by Keefe. Marchment's progress has been similarly noted. I guess our #1 in the AHL coach's word means nothing.

As for Kapanen and Johnsson struggling to hit 50 points. Think about who they are replaceing Let me ask: Did Bozak hit 50pts this year? How about Komarov? Marleau? Pleckanec? Despite his 36 goals, JVR barely squeaked over 50 pts. Just 1 of the players we're replacing managed more than 43 points this year, and most of them didn't even make it to 20. And your complaining that our youngsters would struggle? Compared to our UFA lot (+Martin)? LOL

 

[Boutette]

it does hurt our winger depth because he is arguably our best transition player. you need guys like those on the wing. look what the ****ing rest of our team does-- stretch passes and dump-and-chase.

Maybe then we might look at promoting Bracco, he's probably more suited to playing with Hyman/Matthews than anyone in the system other than Marner and Nylander and being an elite playmaker he'd probably put up more points than Brown did last year.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

And this has worked out miserably for the Leafs over the last two years, hasn't it? I mean, its kept them in the bottom 10 right?

Not all of those rookies are the same.

The past two years have been successful with a combination of useful vets and superstar rookies. A whole roster of mostly rookies, with none of the new ones likely to be stars isn't the same thing at all.

I don't know the numbers but as you go higher in the leagues, a bunch of really great prospects pan out and others hit their ceilings. So you need to progress carefully or you'll just go backwards.

 

[kindalaidback]

Maybe then we might look at promoting Bracco, he's probably more suited to playing with Hyman/Matthews than anyone in the system other than Marner and Nylander and being an elite playmaker he'd probably put up more points than Brown did last year.

yeah, i don't think he is ready.

he is not even playing top line minutes on the marlies, and you guys think he is gonna play for the big boys club anytime soon? that's not gonna happen.

 

[Al14]

Until a player has actually SIGNED a contract, how can there really be a Confirmed with Link titled thread. Should the title not be Rumor: So and so to sigh with Leafs.

 

[Trapper]

Well if these guys can make a decision on Nylander, the GM can address the situation in the summer.
Maybe a Simmonds is an option to sign as a Matthews winger with a Nylander move to center.
Dubas challenged Johnsson to be as good as Arvidsson? Well he plays on the top line with Johansson.
So go with a Johnsson...Matthews...Simmonds top line. Or something to that effect. Hyman can be a winger with Nylander for support. Rotate Kappy/Brown on RW.
But you need a clear path for Willy. It's time to put him where he should be long term.

 

[Boutette]

Not all of those rookies are the same.

The past two years have been successful with a combination of useful vets and superstar rookies. A whole roster of mostly rookies, with none of the new ones likely to be stars isn't the same thing at all.

I don't know the numbers but as you go higher in the leagues, a bunch of really great prospects pan out and others hit their ceilings. So you need to progress carefully or you'll just go backwards.

Useful vets: Komarov 19pts, Martin 12 pts. Moore 12 pts. Boyle/Pleckanec 5pts between them. How exactly are we going backwards by replacing these players with our best 24 and under AHLers (you know, the guys who play on (by far) the best team in that league? We still have Marleau, Hainsey, Kadri, Gardiner and others who have several years experience in the elague and all those 'rookies', only maybe 4 of which at best could be considered superstars will now be entering their 3rd seasons. IE, they aren't rookies anymore.

 

[Fogelhund]

And this has worked out miserably for the Leafs over the last two years, hasn't it? I mean, its kept them in the bottom 10 right?

That's truly a weird comment. Can you please list the 30+ goal scorers, and 50 point centers we let walk in those past two years, and replaced them with rookies?

 

[Boutette]

Well if these guys can make a decision on Nylander, the GM can address the situation in the summer.
Maybe a Simmonds is an option to sign as a Matthews winger with a Nylander move to center.
Dubas challenged Johnsson to be as good as Arvidsson? Well he plays on the top line with Johansson.
So go with a Johnsson...Matthews...Simmonds top line. Or something to that effect. Hyman can be a winger with Nylander for support. Rotate Kappy/Brown on RW.
But you need a clear path for Willy. It's time to put him where he should be long term.

Simmonds, the guy who scored 11 fewer non-pp points than Hyman, and only managed 6 more points over all (not to mention a team worst -16)? A guy who takes no face offs. I struggle to think that he would be a better player right now on Matthew's right than Hyman playing on his natural side with Johnsson on the left and is almost twice as expensive.

 

[Boutette]

That's truly a weird comment. Can you please list the 30+ goal scorers, and 50 point centers we let walk in those past two years, and replaced them with rookies?

Well, we got rid of Phil Kessel to set the stage for the rebuild. And we aren't letting a 50 pt center walk, we are letting a 32 year old 40 pt offence-only center find his retirement contract somewhere else. Much like San Jose did with Marleau. By the way, how did San Jose do this year? They must have really paid dearly for letting Marleau go, right?

 

[Trapper]

Simmonds, the guy who scored 11 fewer non-pp points than Hyman, and only managed 6 more points over all (not to mention a team worst -16)? A guy who takes no face offs. I struggle to think that he would be a better player right now on Matthew's right than Hyman playing on his natural side with Johnsson on the left and is almost twice as expensive.

Can't judge his entire career on one season. It's not like he was a one hit wonder. He's been solid throughout his career. But that's not the entire point of the post. It doesn't have to be Simmonds, it can be a trade for a better suited winger on the top line if Nylander moves to center. What's important is the decision is made now for Willy's future. Not a week before the season starts.

 

[Fogelhund]

Well, we got rid of Phil Kessel to set the stage for the rebuild. And we aren't letting a 50 pt center walk, we are letting a 32 year old 40 pt offence-only center find his retirement contract somewhere else. Much like San Jose did with Marleau. By the way, how did San Jose do this year? They must have really paid dearly for letting Marleau go, right?

Ya.. we got rid of Phil, and ended up in last place in the league.

As far as Marleau... bit of a difference between losing one player, and switching out four or five spots. But I digress, your prior point was that we did this the past two years... and we didn't... but now you are dancing around in circles trying to change the argument.

 

[Boutette]

Ya.. we got rid of Phil, and ended up in last place in the league.

As far as Marleau... bit of a difference between losing one player, and switching out four or five spots. But I digress, your prior point was that we did this the past two years... and we didn't... but now you are dancing around in circles trying to change the argument.

You are acting like the 5 rookies who took over the team 2-3 years ago should still be all considered rookies, and acting like I'm suggesting they are all going to be slotted at the top of the line up. This might be news to you but Bozak and JvR, the best of the UFA bunch were bottom six forwards for us for a reason. The reason was there were at least six forwards ahead of them on the depth chart. Any team that has at least six forwards ahead of Bozak and JvR isn't going to collapse if they leave and it isn't going to collapse of those 2 and players like Martin and Komarov are replaced by the under 24 set who pushed them out of the line up this year.

 

[Ratboy]

What are we looking at here? 3rd.. 4th line ceiling.. or Rickard Wallin