Salary Cap: Leafs Salary Cap 2016-2017 season

666

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Jun 27, 2005
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^I couldn't find that anywhere in the CBA

My understanding is that SOIR is like LITR but the key is that SOIR doesn't start until training camp. A team can only be 10% over the cap during the off season so my understanding is that the Leafs could sign UFA's up to 10% over that cap and then at the start of training camp the SOIR comes off. So while the SOIR adds up to over $8M we can only go about $7.3M over during the off season. Not all of the SOIR is available until training camp if we exceed the 10%. I could be wrong though.
 

The Podium

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Feb 19, 2010
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My understanding is that SOIR is like LITR but the key is that SOIR doesn't start until training camp. A team can only be 10% over the cap during the off season so my understanding is that the Leafs could sign UFA's up to 10% over that cap and then at the start of training camp the SOIR comes off. So while the SOIR adds up to over $8M we can only go about $7.3M over during the off season. Not all of the SOIR is available until training camp if we exceed the 10%. I could be wrong though.

This is what I understood from it as well. Basically from training camp to the end of the season you don't have to worry about shifting salary on to LTIR or any penalties in doing so. But there still on the Cap during the offseason which can pose a problem.
 

keon

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Again like everything else shanny and company have done is hire the best capoligist
In the league. He was the cap king for the NHL so he definitely knows all the ins and outs.

In saying that I read an article on sports net sorry can't find it now maybe someone else can

The article stated that due to Horton and robidas not being on the roster for a full year we can use a clause that says something like they are exempt from counting against cap

I think they called it LOITR or something like that
I didn't really understand all of it so maybe some other hockey guru on here could look it up and explain it in more detail

You are getting LTIR confused with loiter.

LTIR is Long Term Injured Reserve

Loiter is casually hanging around the gym and the physio-therapy room.

Horton will be on LTIR. Lupus will be loiter-ing.
 

Xscout*

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the SOIR loophole makes me smile. Pridham you're decent dude.

8.3M erased.
 

Mess

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I'm not sure how Leafs management is going to get away with Lupul on LTIR?

Lupul had sports hernia surgery and that is not season nor career ending and if he shows up at training camp and passes his team physical how can the Leafs arbitrarily place him on long term injury reserve if he is healthy enough to play?

The league watches cap circumvention very closely and this is one where Lupul might file a grievance against the Leafs if they try and ice him without full cause.
 

TML Dynasty

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I'm not sure how Leafs management is going to get away with Lupul on LTIR?

Lupul had sports hernia surgery and that is not season nor career ending and if he shows up at training camp and passes his team physical how can the Leafs arbitrarily place him on long term injury reserve if he is healthy enough to play?

The league watches cap circumvention very closely and this is one where Lupul might file a grievance against the Leafs if they try and ice him without full cause.

Im guessing a little side chat with 'Lou's Boys' and he wont be fit enough to start camp. Promised a well paid broadcast role??
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Jun 17, 2010
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why will Bozak be gone?

Because if we get Stamkos or we don't Bozak is expendable

It's either a too 3 of

Stamkos
Mathews
Kadri

OR

Mathews
Nylander
Kadri

Either way we have 3 guys better thank Bozak and 4.2 is WAY to much for a 4th line guy
 

rrc1967

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any type of LTIR does not "erase" the cap hit, the difference is when you are allowed to claim the LTIR exemption.

to use the LTIR exemption, the leafs have to be at cap max. if the leafs are at cap max with 6 rookies, then they will most likely have cap penalties being put on them next season.
 

rrc1967

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Jan 9, 2014
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I'd like to know where this author got this "season opening injury reserve" from, outside of thin air.

especially considering there's no mention whatsoever of it in the CBA.

not to mention it's really not that great of a loophole. teams can place players on the LTIR before the season starts regardless.

16.11 Injured Reserve List/Injured Non-Roster.

(a) The Injured Reserve List is a category of the Reserve List. A Club may place a
Player on the Injured Reserve List only if such Player is reasonably expected to be injured, ill or
disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player for a minimum of seven (7) days
from the onset of such injury, illness or disability. A Player who finishes an NHL Season on the
Injured Reserve List and continues to be disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey
Player by reason of the same injury at the time he reports to the Club's Training Camp in the next
League Year, will again be eligible to be placed on the Club's Injured Reserve List. For any
other Player who fails the Club's initial physical examination in any League Year, or is injured,
ill or disabled while not on the Club's Active Roster, he shall not be eligible for, and may not be
placed on, Injured Reserve, but instead shall be eligible to be, and may be designated as, Injured
Non-Roster.

(b) A Player on whose behalf a Club has exercised the Bona Fide Long Term
Injury/Illness Exception shall be placed on Injured Reserve for the period of such Exception,
including any period the Player is on a Bona Fide Long Term Injury/Illness Exception
Conditioning Loan.

(c) Players on the Injured Reserve List may attend team meetings, travel with the
Club (at the Club's option) and participate in practice sessions with other Players on the Club's
Active Roster. Players on Injured Reserve are prohibited from appearing in NHL Games,
participating in pre-game warm-ups with their Clubs, or dressing in game uniforms on NHL
Game days. Players on Injured Reserve and Injured Non-Roster shall have access to the Club's
primary training and medical facilities during regular business hours provided, however, that the
Club may restrict such Players' access during periods when Players on the Club's Active Roster
are expected to be present at such primary training and medical facilities (e.g., pre-game skates,
practices, games, medical and physical treatments for other Players) and within a reasonable
period of time before and after such time periods.

(d) Once a Player is placed on the Injured Reserve List, the Club may replace said
Player on its NHL Active Roster with another Player, and during such period of his designation
as an Injured Reserve Player he will not count against the Club's Active Roster limit, provided,
however, that the Injured Reserve Player's Player Salary and Bonuses and his replacement's
Player Salary and Bonuses are each included in calculating a Club's Actual Club Salary and
Averaged Club Salary, and the Players' Share, for purposes of Article 50.

(e) Any determination that a Player is eligible to be placed on the Injured Reserve
List, or designated as Injured Non-Roster, shall be made by the Club's physician in accordance
with the Club's medical standards and documented by a verification signed by the Club physician
and countersigned by a Club executive in the forms attached to this Agreement as Exhibit 28
(which shall also be signed by the Player) and 28-A, respectively. Such forms must be received
by Central Registry and sent to the NHLPA and the Player, all in accordance with Exhibit 3,
prior to the Player being added to the Injured Reserve List or designated as Injured Non-Roster,
as applicable.

(f) The Commissioner may take whatever steps he deems necessary to investigate the
circumstances under which a Player is: (i) placed, or remains, on the Injured Reserve List, or (ii)
designated Injured Non-Roster. If the Commissioner has reason to believe that the Injured
Reserve List or Injured Non-Roster status has not been utilized properly by the involved Club or
otherwise Circumvents any provision of this Agreement, or if he determines that the Club has
used the Injured Reserve and/or Injured Non-Roster designations to evade the Active Roster
limit, he may take such disciplinary action against the Club as he deems appropriate.

(g) A Player placed on the Injured Reserve List will be ineligible to compete in NHL
Games for a period of not less than seven (7) days from the date of the injury, illness or disability
for which the Player was placed on the Injured Reserve List. A Player will be eligible for
activation to play in NHL Games beginning on the 8th day following the date of injury, illness or
disability for which the Player was placed on the Injured Reserve List or any day thereafter that
the Player is medically cleared to play by the Club physician. The Club must notify Central
Registry, the NHLPA and the Player, in accordance with Exhibit 3, of its intent to activate a
Player who is on the Injured Reserve List, or to remove the designation of Injured Non-Roster,
prior to the Player playing in an NHL Game by way of a verification signed by the Club
physician, and countersigned by a Club executive, attached as Exhibit 28-B. This form must be
received by Central Registry, the NHLPA and the Player, all in accordance with Exhibit 3, on the
day the Club activates the Player to play and, upon Central Registry's receipt of such verification,
the Player will be officially removed from the Injured Reserve List or have the designation of
Injured Non-Roster removed.
 
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Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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any type of LTIR does not "erase" the cap hit, the difference is when you are allowed to claim the LTIR exemption.

to use the LTIR exemption, the leafs have to be at cap max. if the leafs are at cap max with 6 rookies, then they will most likely have cap penalties being put on them next season.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with the cap overages penalties moving to next year from the rookies hitting bonuses. With the amount of cap we have opening up next year it shouldn't be a major issue, we don't have many RFA's to sign next year, Zaitsev maybe if he haves an amazing year will be the only one getting a bigger contract.

That being said yes people just overestimate LTIR just erasing things. It shouldn't be that tough to get up to the max when LTIRing someone to get max benefit but you can't LTIR all of Robidas, Lupul and Horton, because we can only have 10% over right now in the offseason which is like 7.4 million or so, so unless with that extra space you're bringing in guys mid-season it's not going to be useful cap room since we can get up to the cap ignoring those players in the offseason because with those players we'd be way over the 10% offseason overrage

and yes then there's also the thing where you actually have to be injured, we didn;'t use LTIR on Robidas last year either so people assuming we can just erase him and Lupul are out t lunch of that regard too.
 

bobermay

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Mar 6, 2009
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Bump

Can someone fill me in on how much cap space we really have?

If we put Lupul, Robidas and Horton on LTIR, don't we have nearly 14mil in salary to play around with? But as a consequence, all ELC bonuses will be deducted on next year's cap...?

Edit: I should add, I'm just thinking of how we can take advantage of this space... possibly get 1st round picks?
 

therealkoho

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Jul 10, 2009
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Bump

Can someone fill me in on how much cap space we really have?

If we put Lupul, Robidas and Horton on LTIR, don't we have nearly 14mil in salary to play around with? But as a consequence, all ELC bonuses will be deducted on next year's cap...?

Edit: I should add, I'm just thinking of how we can take advantage of this space... possibly get 1st round picks?

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams

keep this for reference
 

Henchmen 21

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Jul 4, 2011
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FWIW, This is with Lupul, Robidas and Horton NOT placed on LTIR.

Thats what I'm asking, if we put those three on LTIR, we open up 14 million in cap space, don't we??

It would seem that way, but this season's leafs are extremely confusing. That list has 23 players at just a shade under 50.4 Million, but that includes Cowen's cap credit, (do we have an answer yet if his buyout is legal). I have no clue what the deal is with Horton, Lupul, and Robidas, theyre not part of our 23-man roster, so are they assigned to the Marlies? Horton is easily placed on IR, i would assume the same of Robidas, but Lupul is a complete unknown.

I kinda hoped we'd have answers to these questions by opening day, but let's just count ourselves lucky we're not dealing with anywhere near the issues Anaheim is atm.
 

bobermay

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Mar 6, 2009
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It would seem that way, but this season's leafs are extremely confusing. That list has 23 players at just a shade under 50.4 Million, but that includes Cowen's cap credit, (do we have an answer yet if his buyout is legal). I have no clue what the deal is with Horton, Lupul, and Robidas, theyre not part of our 23-man roster, so are they assigned to the Marlies? Horton is easily placed on IR, i would assume the same of Robidas, but Lupul is a complete unknown.

I kinda hoped we'd have answers to these questions by opening day, but let's just count ourselves lucky we're not dealing with anywhere near the issues Anaheim is atm.

All three are on IR... but not LTIR.

This is my understanding:

By staying put and keeping them off LTIR, we stay under the Cap (have 800k in cap space)... this extra cap space will without a doubt be filled by Matthews/Nylander/Marner's ELC bonuses... what is left over will go towards NEXT YEAR's cap.

However, if we wan't more cap space now, we CAN put Horton, Robidas, Lupul on LTIR. What this does is give us more cap relief this season (How much, I'm not sure), BUT we DON'T get that extra money that would go onto the cap for next season (ELC bonus salary).

Basically, we likely have around 5-10 million in cap space that we have the option of playing with. So if a team or two wants to give up a 1st round pick to dump a contract, that is an option for us.

I could be wrong... so it would be good to have someone that knows a bit more about this to clarify.


I bumped this thread because I'm particularly interested in Anaheim's dilemma right now, and how we could possibly take advantage of it.
 

Henchmen 21

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Jul 4, 2011
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All three are on IR... but not LTIR.

This is my understanding:

By staying put and keeping them off LTIR, we stay under the Cap (have 800k in cap space)... this extra cap space will without a doubt be filled by Matthews/Nylander/Marner's ELC bonuses... what is left over will go towards NEXT YEAR's cap.

However, if we wan't more cap space now, we CAN put Horton, Robidas, Lupul on LTIR. What this does is give us more cap relief this season (How much, I'm not sure), BUT we DON'T get that extra money that would go onto the cap for next season (ELC bonus salary).

Basically, we likely have around 5-10 million in cap space that we have the option of playing with. So if a team or two wants to give up a 1st round pick to dump a contract, that is an option for us.

I could be wrong... so it would be good to have someone that knows a bit more about this to clarify.


I bumped this thread because I'm particularly interested in Anaheim's dilemma right now, and how we could possibly take advantage of it.

I'm curious if it's an either/or type decision, for example could we just put Horton (highest cap hit) on LTIR and mitigate the damage to our cap next year?

And if the bonuses were to count this year as opposed to next by keeping them off LTIR, would that then push us over the Cap this season?

Whatever we're paying that Pridham guy, it's not enough

And I'm right there with you, I was just about to search for a salary cap thread when I saw your Bump
 

BoredBrandonPridham

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Aug 9, 2011
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I'm curious if it's an either/or type decision, for example could we just put Horton (highest cap hit) on LTIR and mitigate the damage to our cap next year?

And if the bonuses were to count this year as opposed to next by keeping them off LTIR, would that then push us over the Cap this season?

Whatever we're paying that Pridham guy, it's not enough

And I'm right there with you, I was just about to search for a salary cap thread when I saw your Bump

I think of LTIR as available cap credit you can apply to regular season salaries. You *cannot* apply that credit to ELC bonuses.

If the whole season plays out the way it is right now and we don't touch the roster, we are under the cap by $800k. Then let's say there are $4m in bonuses to pay out, Leafs take a $3.2m cap penalty the next season.

If we put Horton on LTIR and sign a $3m player and that stays the roster for the whole season, then at the end, Horton's LTIR gives us a credit of $2.2m (we had 800k of space, then we signed a player of 3.3m which puts us over by 2.2, therefore we get a 2.2 credit), so we end the season even on the cap. Then let's say there are $4m in bonuses to pay out, Leafs take a full $4m cap penalty the next season.

That's my understanding. So, it's best for us not to hit the ceiling this year.
 

bobermay

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Mar 6, 2009
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I think of LTIR as available cap credit you can apply to regular season salaries. You *cannot* apply that credit to ELC bonuses.

If the whole season plays out the way it is right now and we don't touch the roster, we are under the cap by $800k. Then let's say there are $4m in bonuses to pay out, Leafs take a $3.2m cap penalty the next season.

If we put Horton on LTIR and sign a $3m player and that stays the roster for the whole season, then at the end, Horton's LTIR gives us a credit of $2.2m (we had 800k of space, then we signed a player of 3.3m which puts us over by 2.2, therefore we get a 2.2 credit), so we end the season even on the cap. Then let's say there are $4m in bonuses to pay out, Leafs take a full $4m cap penalty the next season.

That's my understanding. So, it's best for us not to hit the ceiling this year.

Thats how I understand it, but I'm not sure that its best for us to not use our LTIR. 800K isn't THAT much savings, plus we have significant salary coming off the books next year (Laich, Michalek, Greening, Robidas). We can probably get some serious assets in return if we use that extra cap space to pick up a bad contract.
 

Magic Man

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Thats how I understand it, but I'm not sure that its best for us to not use our LTIR. 800K isn't THAT much savings, plus we have significant salary coming off the books next year (Laich, Michalek, Greening, Robidas). We can probably get some serious assets in return if we use that extra cap space to pick up a bad contract.

Whether it's a bad contract move or helping to fit in a Trouba/Lindholm/Fowler contract to help the D moving forward the Leafs should definitely take advantage of that situation by using their LTIR.
 

BoredBrandonPridham

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Aug 9, 2011
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Thats how I understand it, but I'm not sure that its best for us to not use our LTIR. 800K isn't THAT much savings, plus we have significant salary coming off the books next year (Laich, Michalek, Greening, Robidas). We can probably get some serious assets in return if we use that extra cap space to pick up a bad contract.

Yea I agree. Though this cap space we have may be more valuable at the trade deadline, so I could see them hold off and start to make use of it then.

Whether it's a bad contract move or helping to fit in a Trouba/Lindholm/Fowler contract to help the D moving forward the Leafs should definitely take advantage of that situation by using their LTIR.

Isn't there some point in the off-season where you need to be cap compliant including your injured players? Do you know when that is, and if we'd have Laich/Michalek/Greening/Robidas off the books by that time? If not, then we can't fit a Trouba.
 

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