LeBrun: Leafs, Sabres, Discussing Ristolainen

Blaine8797

Registered User
Nov 26, 2018
745
494
Toronto has tons more talent, and has been playing rubbish, and will get Reilly/and Mik back next month for an extra boost.
they cant continue to play as bad as they have been for the rest of the year (or can they)
By next month they could be miles out of a playoff spot tho, bows the time where a few games can absolutely screw your chances at playoffs, if bob decides to turn up the heat and plays half as good as he is Florida will start rolling
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,914
East Coast
its a good thing you didnt add forward giveaways ...that would be a very ugly list

To be honest, not sure of the accuracy of those stats so I use overall sample size over span of years vs one year approach. I think the errors even out over time and you can establish trends. Kind of like taking +/- out of context is not smart. But when you look at Barrie with the Avs, you clearly notice a career trend.

Actually, forwards are more closer to the 1-1 ration than D man who are between 2-1 or 4-1 range typically. Defenseman and centers have the puck more usually so it's reasonable to expect more giveaways than takeaways. Did you know that Giordano and Pietrangelo are among the best by far in that area (close to 1/1 ratio)?
 

qqaz

Think Happy Thoughts
Oct 25, 2018
2,210
2,843
I like Risto. I think that he could be a gamebreaker with the right team. But I don't know if Toronto is the right fit.

If things go well, hes a legit top pair minute-cruncher. If things go bad hes a liability. I don't know if Toronto can take the risk, given what the expected price would be to land him.

I'll be thrilled if he comes to Toronto. But It would be a big gamble. I'd prefer the safer move with Severson from NJD.
 

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,810
2,315
I like Risto. I think that he could be a gamebreaker with the right team. But I don't know if Toronto is the right fit.

If things go well, hes a legit top pair minute-cruncher. If things go bad hes a liability. I don't know if Toronto can take the risk, given what the expected price would be to land him.

I'll be thrilled if he comes to Toronto. But It would be a big gamble. I'd prefer the safer move with Severson from NJD.
Fair assessment. All of the pros and cons on Risto are heavily biased in my opinion, and not based on fan based or hockey pundit analytics, but the one thing they all keep over looking is the historical environment with which he entered the league. The Buffalo Sabres decision to tear it all down and rebuild from scratch, when combined with the rotating door at the coach and GM levels, which heavily effect player usage merged with roster strategies and on ice coaching philosophies have heavily skewed the analytics on him. It's the the most obvious fact, and it is a fact, but one shunned by an actual shocking number of fans, most often in attempts to negate his over all value as an NHL defenseman. He is what he is, a big bodied, puck moving, offensive d man who can eat minutes, and, in the right system, as you suggested here, can vastly improve those defensive stat numbers in a big hurry.
I can consider him one of the top three 2nd pairing RHD's in the league right now. He needs a "fit", as it were. Maybe Toronto, but I can see him flourishing in Colorado heavily, same with Tampa, Washington, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Columbus and Nashville. All where puck movement is predicated on not just the individuals, but as a team, supporting one another.

We'll see what's offered down the road, but Risto is heavily undervalued by many fans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qqaz

Uncle Scrooge

Hockey Bettor
Nov 14, 2011
13,479
8,022
Helsinki
I understand opinions on Risto differ depending on who you ask but realistically i think Andreas Johnsson is pretty much spot on the caliber of player i could see the Sabres getting for him, secondary piece that slots in on their 2nd line. They've probably looked for a lot more than that in the last couple years (probably still are) but at some point you gotta move on, so if that's on the table in the summer i say take it.

Certainly ticks some of the boxes the Leafs are looking for. Compete, grit, and obviously, RHD. As sad as it sounds going from sucking in Buffalo to being the scapegoat in Toronto, i actually think Risto might grow on Leafs fans. At least he shows up to compete every night and loves to play the body.

I'd prefer the safer move with Severson from NJD.

He's been such a major disappointment for me personally that im past thinking he's a top 4 dman in the league.

Like, he literally does nothing to change anything for the Leafs. Fits right in to uninspiring hockey where you blow coverages and try to play cute.

The difference between Ristolainen and Severson is that when they're bad, at least Risto plays with some balls.
 
  • Like
Reactions: biotk

is the answer jesus

Registered User
Mar 10, 2008
6,587
3,097
Tonawanda, NY
I understand opinions on Risto differ depending on who you ask but realistically i think Andreas Johnsson is pretty much spot on the caliber of player i could see the Sabres getting for him, secondary piece that slots in on their 2nd line. They've probably looked for a lot more than that in the last couple years (probably still are) but at some point you gotta move on, so if that's on the table in the summer i say take it.

Certainly ticks some of the boxes the Leafs are looking for. Compete, grit, and obviously, RHD. As sad as it sounds going from sucking in Buffalo to being the scapegoat in Toronto, i actually think Risto might grow on Leafs fans. At least he shows up to compete every night and loves to play the body.



He's been such a major disappointment for me personally that im past thinking he's a top 4 dman in the league.

Like, he literally does nothing to change anything for the Leafs. Fits right in to uninspiring hockey where you blow coverages and try to play cute.

The difference between Ristolainen and Severson is that when they're bad, at least Risto plays with some balls.
Easy pass from Buffalo. Risto has warts, but you don't trade a good 2nd pairing defenseman for a 2nd line winger. If underwhelming offers like that are the best offers available you move Montour or Miller instead.
 

BananaSquad

Registered User
Jun 13, 2013
4,777
1,699
Niagara
Easy pass from Buffalo. Risto has warts, but you don't trade a good 2nd pairing defenseman for a 2nd line winger. If underwhelming offers like that are the best offers available you move Montour or Miller instead.
I’d make that trade. Keep Montour and Miller, time to move on from Risto.
 

Artorius Horus T

sincerety
Nov 12, 2014
19,124
11,839
Suomi/Finland
Still,.... i keep wondering what kind of ass-backwards idea most hockey fans have about Rasmus Ristolainen.....
Sure, he makes mistakes, but even a blind person and a total hockey noob can see that his upside >> downside.
- everyone seem to have this weird idea that he is the worst player in the NHL what comes to defending, some sort of joke even

Again, he makes mistakes, duh, but dude is a physical beast and when he is having his best day, he is also good defensively.

Awesome skater for that frame. Quality shot, good at passing the puck forwards
solid laterally as well, good blueliner all together for the pp and for o-zone 5 on 5.

Sure, mostly his own d-zone hockey sense is not at NHL level, but dude is only 25 (like only 4-5 months over), still young,
d-men usually improve the most of all players when time goes by (experience), so to speak.

If Toronto was to get Ristolainen, obviously would make their D much better.

Risto needs a complimentary d-pair.
 
  • Like
Reactions: biotk

is the answer jesus

Registered User
Mar 10, 2008
6,587
3,097
Tonawanda, NY
I’d make that trade. Keep Montour and Miller, time to move on from Risto.
Some of the shine has worn off Johnsson. He had a bit of a breakout season last year, but he's been largely underwhelming this year. The opposite is true for Ristolainen. He's been a little better in his own end and has produced more at ES. Minutes scaled down with the right partner has helped right the ship (at least a bit). This wouldn't be a smart deal and quite frankly even if you thought it was time to move on from Risto and a 2nd line winger was the best you could do you, you should easily get that from another team that isn't in your division.
 

Uncle Scrooge

Hockey Bettor
Nov 14, 2011
13,479
8,022
Helsinki
Some of the shine has worn off Johnsson. He had a bit of a breakout season last year, but he's been largely underwhelming this year. The opposite is true for Ristolainen. He's been a little better in his own end and has produced more at ES. Minutes scaled down with the right partner has helped right the ship (at least a bit). This wouldn't be a smart deal and quite frankly even if you thought it was time to move on from Risto and a 2nd line winger was the best you could do you, you should easily get that from another team that isn't in your division.

FWIW i didn't necessarily mean 1 for 1, i personally think the Leafs would have to add a pick.

But yeah, there's not a trade out there that everyone would agree to. Some people think he blows, some people think he's worth a lot more.

As far as what you're saying though - i don't think there's many 2nd line wingers available in a deal for him to be honest. Leafs are one of the few likely willing to part with one and it just so happens Risto would fill a positional need for them.

So it's a situation where the clock is starting to tick on Risto, i don't think he's a great TDL trade chip as he has zero playoff experience (nor are the Sabres getting a 2nd line winger from a playoff team late in the season), and there's only so many summers left to pull the trigger on a trade before he's gone.
 

is the answer jesus

Registered User
Mar 10, 2008
6,587
3,097
Tonawanda, NY
FWIW i didn't necessarily mean 1 for 1, i personally think the Leafs would have to add a pick.

But yeah, there's not a trade out there that everyone would agree to. Some people think he blows, some people think he's worth a lot more.

As far as what you're saying though - i don't think there's many 2nd line wingers available in a deal for him to be honest. Leafs are one of the few likely willing to part with one and it just so happens Risto would fill a positional need for them.

So it's a situation where the clock is starting to tick on Risto, i don't think he's a great TDL trade chip as he has zero playoff experience (nor are the Sabres getting a 2nd line winger from a playoff team late in the season), and there's only so many summers left to pull the trigger on a trade before he's gone.
As for something around Johnsson + that's probably getting closer in value. I'd still likely pass unless that's a serious +.
Risto doesn't have to be traded for a 2nd line winger. It's a need but it's a secondary one. It may be a smarter approach to acquire draft picks/prospects and go shopping over the summer for a better forward then Johnsson. If that doesn't work you trade either of Montour or Miller and take the best offer. This season is lost for Buffalo. This isn't a deal that has to be made now. As for Ristolainen not being a great trade deadline chip I disagree. Rumors of TB's interest has been out there for over a year now. Nasty, physical, offensive defenseman seems like he'd check some boxes for what GM's are looking for come playoff time. The no playoff experience argument has never made much sense to me.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,159
20,756
A lot has been discussed Petry potentially going to Colorado in light of Bergevin watching 2 Avs games this week, but has there been any noise lately about Ristolainen? He reportedly requested a trade earlier in the season, and his salary and offensive stats are actually very comparable to Petry and might be an alternative for Colorado:
  • Petry: $5.5m / 1 more year
  • Risto: $5.4m / 2 more years
This season:
  • Petry: 9 goals + 28 assists (37 points in 63 games) ..... 23:39 TOI .... 3 PPG .... 12 PPP
  • Risto: 5 goals + 24 assists (29 points in 60 games) ...... 22:41 TOI ..... 2 PPG .... 6 PPP
Last season:
  • Petry: 13 goals + 33 assists (46 points in 82 games) ... 23:07 TOI .... 3 PPG ... 11 PPP
  • Risto: 5 goals + 38 assists (43 points in 78 games) ..... 24:38 TOI .... 1 PPG ... 17 PPP
Ristolainen's production on the PP is significantly lower this season but he's still on pace for 40 points, suggesting that he could produce offense without PP time (with Makar getting most of it). Admittedly his defensive stats aren't the greatest, but that's playing top line minutes on a weak Buffalo team, perhaps he'd do better in that regard as a 2nd pairing RHD, particularly with the 3rd pairing of Cole/Zadorov/Johnson taking the bulk of heavy/PK minutes.

Graves - Makar
Girard - Ristolainen
Zadorov - Johnson
Cole

In terms of price, Buffalo need a middle-6 C or RW, so perhaps they'd be interested in Kaut or Bowers as promising NHL-ready C/RW prospects, along with a 1st round pick. If we acquire a 3C in a separate trade perhaps Jost or Compher could be included too.

Curious to hear some thoughts on this idea.
 

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,810
2,315
Risto for Leafs 2020 1st? Add?
Add.
Risto is one of the leagues top three 2nd pairing RHD's. 25 yrs old with term on his 5.4 mil contract. He eats minutes.
That is a highly coveted asset right now, and this is the trade deadline, where prices are elevated a bit, unlike the off season.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,159
20,756
Add.
Risto is one of the leagues top three 2nd pairing RHD's. 25 yrs old with term on his 5.4 mil contract. He eats minutes.
That is a highly coveted asset right now, and this is the trade deadline, where prices are elevated a bit, unlike the off season.
Do you think COL 2020 1st + Bowers/Kaut/Jost/Helleson would get it done for Ristolainen? That's a 1st round pick plus Buffalo's choice from NHL-ready middle 6 C/RW prospects or a solid RHD prospect.
 

explore

I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
Jun 28, 2011
3,752
3,434
Do you think COL 2020 1st + Bowers/Kaut/Jost/Helleson would get it done for Ristolainen? That's a 1st round pick plus Buffalo's choice from NHL-ready middle 6 C/RW prospects or a solid RHD prospect.

That would work better for Montour than Risto. Risto's ask is a 2C, which the league won't pay. He has more value to the Sabres than he does to the rest of the NHL.
 

tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
29,802
21,844
Do you think COL 2020 1st + Bowers/Kaut/Jost/Helleson would get it done for Ristolainen? That's a 1st round pick plus Buffalo's choice from NHL-ready middle 6 C/RW prospects or a solid RHD prospect.

IMO Risto only moves if it's a good hockey trade. 2C or bust.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,159
20,756
That would work better for Montour than Risto. Risto's ask is a 2C, which the league won't pay. He has more value to the Sabres than he does to the rest of the NHL.
How about if it's 2020 1st + Compher + Helleson?

(Avs would replace Compher by acquiring a 3C via another trade)
 

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,810
2,315
Do you think COL 2020 1st + Bowers/Kaut/Jost/Helleson would get it done for Ristolainen? That's a 1st round pick plus Buffalo's choice from NHL-ready middle 6 C/RW prospects or a solid RHD prospect.
That's difficult to answer at this time. Buffalo isn't conceding the playoff race, not by a long shot. They're looking for long-term help that can step in and help them now in the playoff race as well. An actual hockey trade. Futures, such as a draft pick or 2 or a prospect would most likely be included, but, they have addressable needs, specifically a line 2/3 center, playmaker with some scoring touch, with term on their contract. That is just 1 of 3 or 4 examples of need. Think outside of the box when it comes to Buffalo, they aren't a lottery picker just yet, and they have needs for both the here and now as well as longer term future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Richard88

explore

I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
Jun 28, 2011
3,752
3,434
How about if it's 2020 1st + Compher + Helleson?

(Avs would replace Compher by acquiring a 3C via another trade)

The problem isn't the value you're offering, it's the need it isn't filling. I like Compher a lot, since he was a Sabres draft pick. Him plus the first plus Helleson (who I'm not familiar with) is good value.

The issue is that Risto is a core part of the Sabres. He plays the most minutes night in and night out. He also plays a key role on the powerplay by playing in front of the net. He's also the Sabres most physical player/defenseman. If he's being traded, the Sabres need an equally important player coming back. That's a 2C.

I think Colorado can offer good value for Risto, but they can't offer a 2C. Given how difficult it is to acquire a 2C, I'd rather the Sabres keep Risto than trade him for a package that doesn't immediately address a need. (The Sabres also need a 2RW, but that position is easier to fill than 2C.)
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->