Speculation: Leafs rushed the rebuild

[Myopic]

I thought they rushed the rebuild this season by selling the farm for Muzzin. If they resign him next summer I'll call it a fair deal. He's an upgrade over Gardiner, who, thank god, will be out of here. I know I'm in the minority here, in Leafs fanatics forum, but clearly, Dubas misjudged their chances to win a cup this season. They probably won't get past the first round once again. They are just too soft for playoff hockey.

People say they are stacked at forward but I see stiffs like Gauthier, Connor Brown, Marleau, Lindholm, and Hyman who are bad offensive players this season. That's 5/12 forwards who stink. Tell me again that they are deep up front.

I think 2021 is the Leafs year but who knows now since they've been giving away assets like crazy. The farm system is devoid of blue-chip talent too except for Sandin.

That said, you don't pass on a free agent like Tavares. It was a no brainer.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I knew they would.

They weren’t ready to add a huge UFA like Tavares. The timing they had to make a choice and I get it. I said at the time how much I hated the decision.

Here it is now proving to us all why it was the wrong one. Yes he’s a hell of player but he destroyed the cap structure on the team. Leafs should of re signed their core before going after Tavares.

That should of been priority number one not getting another high priced forward. It arguably took away 3 years of us being competitive. Can’t even imagine what the Marner contract will look like either. Fact is also Tavares was a luxury not a need at all.

Doubt Matthews contract looked like this if not for Tavares.

Reported asks for Marner 9X8 and Matthews 12.34*8 in the summer (although Matthews there was a lot of different insider opinions on what the number in the summer was but either way it was 8 years.)

So wait not only do you wish the team had fewer good players that's what you are saying because you said you hated the decision to sign Tavares but then you lie and you say they rushed the rebuild that's bullshit and I will prove it.

2009 ,

Drafted Kadri

2011

Acquired Jake Gardiner

2012 drafted Rielly and Brown

2013 Drafted Gauthier and Johnsson

2014 drafted Nylander

2015 traded Kessel, Acquired Kapanen drafted Marner, Drafted Dermott, traded for and signed Hyman

2016 drafted Matthews, Acquired Andersen, dumped Phaneuf, drafted Grunstrom

2017 signed Marleau

2018 signed Tavares drafted Druzi

2019 used Grunstrom and Druzi to get Muzzin.

Rushed rebuild? That's Bullshit as I just proved they have been drafting and trading well since 2009.

The list of moves I have provided is not a rushed rebuild but a rebuild done right especially since 2011.

Rushed rebuild? I think not

 

[Faltorvo]

we will lose Brown and Gardiner. And keep Kapenen and Johnson. I will take that risk.

I just don't think you get it yet.

all 4 of those names are long gone.

right now capfriendly has us with only 7.5m in cap space next season

and Marner will eat up 11m on his own OH! and that only puts us at 15 out of 23 needed contracts.

 

[Finn16]

The mistake was, Dubas failing to take the "gamble" of signing Marner and AM this summer while their prices were still reasonably low.

People say this but was that even possible? I mean why didn't Lou sign them even earlier when their prices were at their lowest..

 

[LeafShark]

At some point, you have to bet the farm to win. And yes, they ARE that good... and they STILL have enough of a farm, and a good enough of a farm to be the Detroit Red Wings of the 21st centenary. This is the best Leafs team since the expansion era~!

 

[lebdafor norris]

Zero chance either of them would have signed before this season. Why on earth would they work against their own interests?

For security? Same reason Eichel and McDavid signed their own contracts before starting their respective 3rd season in the NHL. Value obviously has to be their for Marner or AM and the rumor was, Marner's camp wanted something like 9 x 8 this summer, similar to what Drai got from the Oilers.

 

[Leafs87]

So wait not only do you wish the team had fewer good players that's what you are saying because you said you hated the decision to sign Tavares but then you lie and you say they rushed the rebuild that's bull**** and I will prove it.

2009 ,

Drafted Kadri

2011

Acquired Jake Gardiner

2012 drafted Rielly and Brown

2013 Drafted Gauthier and Johnsson

2014 drafted Nylander

2015 traded Kessel, Acquired Kapanen drafted Marner, Drafted Dermott, traded for and signed Hyman

2016 drafted Matthews, Acquired Andersen, dumped Phaneuf, drafted Grunstrom

2017 signed Marleau

2018 signed Tavares drafted Druzi

2019 used Grunstrom and Druzi to get Muzzin.

Rushed rebuild? That's Bull**** as I just proved they have been drafting and trading well since 2009.

The list of moves I have provided is not a rushed rebuild but a rebuild done right especially since 2011.

Rushed rebuild? I think not

I’m sorry that you believe the rebuild started in 09 just because we’ve been garbage since that time. Also did you conveniently forget to mention the Kessel trade ? Which was clearly done because Burke said it’s a retool not a rebuild and we traded two firsts and a second.

But it started when Shanhan came in. That’s when it started properly anyways.

 

[dubey]

Tavares the player sure. But and the big but is when you sign Tavares for 11 and make him the second highest paid player in the NHL forget about asking for discounts from your young players. What I’m getting at is that passing up on Tavares and worrying about our own would have been smart. That way we probably would of seen discount deals and probably 8 year deals. When you see Tavares on your team making 11 forget signing for less.

Now we have two of the three going to UFA at a young age and set a precedent of overpaying. Dubas rushes it. Getting a big ticket UFA is great but after you take care of your own. That should be the last thing you do. Not something you do before signing your core to long good deals.

And Tavares is nice but believe me there would of been other UFAs available when the time would of been right

These contract negotiations also remind me of how first time car buyers always get hosed by experienced sales people because they let their excitement get in the way of logic and didn’t wait it out. Dubas caved on 2/3 and reading the Marner articles that agent smells bloood in the water

Holy just stop

Anyone with the opportunity to pick up a 1C for NOTHING is going to do it. Especially when it's one of the best players in the league.

Opportunities like that rarely happen. Last was Chara more than a decade ago.

 

[lebdafor norris]

People say this but was that even possible? I mean why didn't Lou sign them even earlier when their prices were at their lowest..

I dont think the Leafs were allowed to sign either AM or Marner until July 1st at the earliest, Lou was no longer the GM by then. Not sure if AM's camp were interested in signing a deal however, but Marner's camp asking price last summer was rumored to be 9 x 8, with Drai being the comparable they used. Definitely an overpayment at the time, much like the Eichel deal when it was signed but getting the deal out of the way eliminates the "risk" of said player breaking out in their final entry year, thus, raising their RFA price in the process.

 

[Leafs87]

Holy just stop

Anyone with the opportunity to pick up a 1C for NOTHING is going to do it. Especially when it's one of the best players in the league.

Yeah here’s your later starting to show itself

 

[dubey]

Yeah here’s your later starting to show itself

Kool

 

[Leafs87]

Kool

You’re probably forgetting that Marner still hasn’t signed and his agent just went bat shit crazy over the deal

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I thought they rushed the rebuild this season by selling the farm for Muzzin. If they resign him next summer I'll call it a fair deal. He's an upgrade over Gardiner, who, thank god, will be out of here. I know I'm in the minority here, in Leafs fanatics forum, but clearly, Dubas misjudged their chances to win a cup this season. They probably won't get past the first round once again. They are just too soft for playoff hockey.

People say they are stacked at forward but I see stiffs like Gauthier, Connor Brown, Marleau, Lindholm, and Hyman who are bad offensive players this season. That's 5/12 forwards who stink. Tell me again that they are deep up front.

I think 2021 is the Leafs year but who knows now since they've been giving away assets like crazy. The farm system is devoid of blue-chip talent too except for Sandin.

That said, you don't pass on a free agent like Tavares. It was a no brainer.

I'm sorry what? giving away assets like crazy? selling the farm? They traded a 1st round pick for the first time since June 2016, and that was Pittsburgh 1st, they hadn't traded prior to the Muzzin trade since September 2009.

You say that they sold the farm for Muzzin yet, our top 3 prospects in Sandin, Lilgerjen and Bracco are still in the farm system so that's not true.

You say that the farm system is devoid of blue chip prospects other than Sandin, I'd argue that Lilgerjen is also a blue chip prospect but even if Sandin were the only one that's because they all graduated to the Leafs, that's a good thing that means they all developed properly and are contributing to the Leafs that's what every team wants, they want the farm team to pump out NHL players at a consistent and incredible rate.

That's whst you want, that's a good thing.

The prospect pool is fine it can be restocked

 

[crump]

blow it up

 

[The Beyonder]

The rebuild? The rebuild is over, man. Since last year may, it's been about going to the next level. Guys like Tavares get you to that next level and don't come along often. To have Matthews and Tavares down the middle for 6 playoffs (and maybe more) is massive and an opportunity like that doesn't come often. Add in guys like Marner who is a superstar, Rielly he's establishing himself as a bonafide #1... we have pieces to build around for contending.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I agree that we rushed the rebuild, but not because of the reason the Op mentioned. The ones that bugged me are the Boyle and Plekanec trades. Giving up good assets for 4th line centers, who provided little value other than being good teammates. Would have rather had those draft picks.

We also kept guys like JvR, Bozak, Polak, Komarov around, all of which would have helped us stock the cupboards even more than Tampa. I realize helping a young team make the playoffs is important, but I think we would have been just as well off in the first round of the past two seasons to just let the kids play.

Could have still taken a run at Tavares this year regardless.

*On a side note, the Tavares contract basically forces us to trade Hyman and Brown at the end of their contracts and I couldn't be happier to avoid a Helm/Abdelkader situation (Seriously, look at those contracts... wow).

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I’m sorry that you believe the rebuild started in 09 just because we’ve been garbage since that time. Also did you conveniently forget to mention the Kessel trade ? Which was clearly done because Burke said it’s a retool not a rebuild and we traded two firsts and a second.

But it started when Shanhan came in. That’s when it started properly anyways.

So you are just going to ignore all the facts I provided because it doesn't fit your bullshit narrative? Even if you wanted to ignore the drafting of Kadri, Rielly, Brown, Johnsson, Gauthier, the Gardiner trade etc and pretend those didn't happen and say it started when Shanny came in they still drafted

Nylander
Marner
Dermott
Matthews
Grunstrom
Druzi

They also acquired and develop Kapanen and Hyman, traded for Andersen, dumped Phaneuf, dumped Clarkson traded Kessel

It was only after doing all that, that they signed Marleau, Tavares and traded for Muzzin

Even if you count NOTHING before 2014, which is ridiculous because that means Rielly and Kadri don't count, but even if you count NOTHING before 2014 the, idea that the rebuild was rushed is Bullshit, it is not just wrong, it's a lie and you know it .

 

[indigobuffalo]

These people really are out there... what a scary world.

 

[Menzinger]

The team is 4th in the NHL, a legitimate contender for the cup, recently added a top pairing D man via trade and just signed one to the best drafted and developed players in franchise history for the next half decade.......


There are some fans on these boards who legitimately would prefer to be miserable over anything else I suppose. Sad and strange.

 

[Zrinski]

Could not disagree more. Like Bobby Mac said, if we didn't sign Tavares then Matthews signs 8 years at 13.5+ per year. If you wait until then to try and add a guy like Tavares you don't have the room to do it.

Not to mention you don't get to pick and choose which superstars to sign from another team for free. If one is available and wants to play for you, you make it work.

 

[The Beyonder]

For all those complaining about having too many talented players to sign, let me show the roster on the final game before we won the Matthews lottery in 2016.

2016
Laich (for injured JVR) - Bozak - Parenteau
Greening - Nylander-Lindberg
Komarov - Froese (for injured Kadri) - Grabner
Carrick - Gauthier - Boyes

Marincin - Rielly
Gardiner - Corrado
Campbell - Brennan

Now, after having that lineup to having this line up last game.

2019
Marleau - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Brown - Kadri - Nylander
Johnsson - Gauthier - Lindholm

Muzzin - Rielly
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsay .

Only a handful of players have survived that transition. It's easy to forget how some many things have went so right for us in those 3 years. Having an abundance of young talent is a great problem to have.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

The Leafs' youngins were really f***ing good really f***ing fast. That's the only thing that happened here. They are getting signed accordingly and there's not really anything wrong with it, they are very good players and Leafs are very fortunate to be able to fit them all under the cap.

 

[DanM]

The biggest test will be seeing if we can actually sign Kappy and Johnsson to friendly contracts, this will be huge going forward. I hope we can somehow convince Mitch to take a 9-9.5m cap hit, plus a good Kap and John deal, these things would go a long way to helping us.

 

[GodEmperor]

No we didn't, if we deal Nylander who has basically become redundant at this point for picks+prospects, we are 100% fine going forward.

Paying Matthews and Marner would've happened anyways and honestly even if they took discounts, we probably would've saved 2-3 million dollars total, so a pretty inconsequential amount.

The team overall is in an amazing spot, even if we fork over 12 to Matthews and 10 to Marner we are 100% fine.

There really is no better scenario than what we're in, unless you want a bunch of just solid-good players like Kessel, Kadri, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner and co getting paid way less money for way less results.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Other than all these player friendly contracts that have been handed out recently the only mistakes this team has made was not trading JVR, Bozak, Leo at the deadline and Gards this past off season. Leafs would be flush with picks and prospects but now our depth is gonna suffer in the medium and long term.