Speculation: Leafs rushed the rebuild

[smitty10]

That's PRECISELY what I wanted the leafs to do. Rebuild one more year (the seaons we dressed 7 rookies), and grab an elite defensive depth player. That player would still be 1-2 years away from their big post elc pay day. It's what should have happened.

Are you suggesting the Leafs should have thrown the season to try and acquire a high pick in hopes he turned into a star player? The Leafs seem to have done just fine in drafting Sandin and Liljegren who should be able to slot in as some guys become too expensive.

You complain about the Tavares signing, but fail to realize that there was almost zero chance we would have selected someone as he is. Heck, what if that pick busted? In your scenario we would have missed out on Tavares, picked a player that didn't pan out and the team wouldn't be nearly as good as they are now. Your scenario is very unlikely to have played out into a better team than we have now.

I think you're a pessimist. Unfortunately, rather than appreciating the most talented Leafs team ever, you find a reason to shit on them. If you're actually a Leafs fan, try to enjoy this team over the next few years. It will likely be the most talented group in our lifetime.

 

[IPS]

There's going to be some cap casualties, and it's gonna sting.

 

[hotpaws]

View attachment 183221
Second in the NHL in goals. Hes worth every penny and then some.

yup , tied for 2nd in goals with 3 other players and tied for 23rd in points , so i don't know how you figure he's even worth the 11m he's being paid , never mind being worth more

JT's a very good player and ufa's get overpaid but lets cool it on him deserving the deal he got , never mind being worth more .

 

[Spirit of 67]

Only on HF can over acheiving be considered a failure.

 

[TML11]

The issue is that we have been surprised at the good talent of players like Moore, Kapanen, Johnson, has been!!!! Who would have thought we would have had such a stacked team..we are GOOD finally

 

[TML11]

we will lose Brown and Gardiner. And keep Kapenen and Johnson. I will take that risk.

 

[smitty10]

Why does every hot take include and I was right all along almost like it's motivated reasoning or something

It's all part of the delusion.

We have someone stating that this team would have been better off with a first round pick than we are with a former FIRST OVERALL pick who is on pace for ~50 goals! Better than the second place team in the conference...

This may be the worst thread I've ever seen on HFBoards. I wonder if the OP is actually a Leafs fan or if they're a fan of another team with multiple accounts flaming Leafs fans. I'm sure Mods can look into IP addresses and things like that.

 

[TheCLAM]

This is such an emotional thread. I’m not sure some of you are capable for foresight. The cap is going to keep increasing over time especially in the next 3-5 years. More teams = more revenue. In the short term were in a pinch next season. I think it’s a lot more do-able than a lot of you think.

You guys are just have anxiety that we’re gonna be the hawks selling everyone off. Guess what we’re gonna have a forward core of Matthews-Marner-Nylander-Kadri-Tavares. We’ll be just fine

 

[Rare Jewel]

Did they rush it, nah. Was signing JT absolutely necessary? Well... could they have found a less expensive option to replace Bozak with while also giving the team much more flexibility to keep Gardiner (which looks very unlikely), as well the ability to keep both Kapanen and Johnsson quite comfortably? Possibly. Also, that's not even taking Marner into account.

John is a terrific player though, not denying that.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Are you suggesting the Leafs should have thrown the season to try and acquire a high pick in hopes he turned into a star player? The Leafs seem to have done just fine in drafting Sandin and Liljegren who should be able to slot in as some guys become too expensive.

You complain about the Tavares signing, but fail to realize that there was almost zero chance we would have selected someone as he is. Heck, what if that pick busted? In your scenario we would have missed out on Tavares, picked a player that didn't pan out and the team wouldn't be nearly as good as they are now. Your scenario is very unlikely to have played out into a better team than we have now.

I think you're a pessimist. Unfortunately, rather than appreciating the most talented Leafs team ever, you find a reason to **** on them. If you're actually a Leafs fan, try to enjoy this team over the next few years. It will likely be the most talented group in our lifetime.

You're wrong about what I think about the Tavares signing.

I love the Tavares signing. Have never once complained about it. Because HE'S the type of player you overpay for. A 27 year old ufa. But the amount of money we're throwing at unproven ufa's (career highs of 69 points, and 62 points) is borderline psychotic.

 

[supsens]

This is such an emotional thread. I’m not sure some of you are capable for foresight. The cap is going to keep increasing over time especially in the next 3-5 years. More teams = more revenue. In the short term were in a pinch next season. I think it’s a lot more do-able than a lot of you think.

You guys are just have anxiety that we’re gonna be the hawks selling everyone off. Guess what we’re gonna have a forward core of Matthews-Marner-Nylander-Kadri-Tavares. We’ll be just fine

More teams might equal more revenue but it also equals more teams so it may not effect the cap at all. If it is a middle team that makes middle money the cap wont change much from it. Then you also have to factor in more teams taking from the national tv contracts and that is decreasing the amount of revenue per team. I hope players like escrow because the ever rising cap is killing them.

 

[MyBudJT]

Nylander signs above market value
Matthews signs above market value
Marner wants to get paid Matthews money

Why can't we have nice things?

 

[dubey]

Nylander signs above market value
Matthews signs above market value
Marner wants to get paid Matthews money

Why can't we have nice things?

Because of posts like this

 

[Buds17]

The quick success of the young players helped expedite the rebuild. We knew UFA could be pricey (though a Tavares level player being available had been a rarity), but RFA salaries certainly seem to be skyrocketing as well. Might help shift what future rebuilds look like if this becomes the start of a trend.

 

[Leafs87]

I screamed about this... SCREAMED about it... after the leafs 7 rookie team snuck into the playoffs. This was less than ONE year after we were told to "prepare for pain". I said that the rebuild WASN'T done. That we needed to improve our defensive prospect depth. But that MLSE wouldn't be able to control themselves and the rebuild would be over. And then (OF COURSE) the Marleau contract was signed, sealing our fate.

MLSE will never be able to not see the short term playoff profit margin. It will never go away. EVER.

And now we got too good too quickly, inflating our young players stats, making them sign for unprecedented numbers. This rebuild got royally ****ed up. Most leaf fans won't accept it yet. We've already been through so much, and they just can't accpet it. But they will. We pay unproven players far FAR too much money right now, and we won't be able to acquire the depth to make deep playoff runs.

This is what I was getting at too

 

[PuckMagi]

lol... OP, you seriously don't want Tavares on our team right now?

 

[Leafs87]

lol... OP, you seriously don't want Tavares on our team right now?

Tavares the player sure. But and the big but is when you sign Tavares for 11 and make him the second highest paid player in the NHL forget about asking for discounts from your young players. What I’m getting at is that passing up on Tavares and worrying about our own would have been smart. That way we probably would of seen discount deals and probably 8 year deals. When you see Tavares on your team making 11 forget signing for less.

Now we have two of the three going to UFA at a young age and set a precedent of overpaying. Dubas rushes it. Getting a big ticket UFA is great but after you take care of your own. That should be the last thing you do. Not something you do before signing your core to long good deals.

And Tavares is nice but believe me there would of been other UFAs available when the time would of been right

These contract negotiations also remind me of how first time car buyers always get hosed by experienced sales people because they let their excitement get in the way of logic and didn’t wait it out. Dubas caved on 2/3 and reading the Marner articles that agent smells bloood in the water

 

[apollo678]

Is this not the best Leafs team you have seen in your lifetime?
I have been a fan since 1976 and to me, this is the best team I have seen.
They set a franchise record for points last year and are probably going to surpass that this year.
Why not just enjoy the ride? These good times don't come around that often.

 

[zeke]

leafs are an elite team, and have the youngest core in the league.

that's a perfect rebuild.

 

[PuckMagi]

Is this not the best Leafs team you have seen in your lifetime?
I have been a fan since 1976 and to me, this is the best team I have seen.
They set a franchise record for points last year and are probably going to surpass that this year.
Why not just enjoy the ride? These good times don't come around that often.

exactly. we pretty much have the best roster in the NHL. other than maybe Tampa, would you want to trade teams with anyone right now? I wouldn't trade with anyone (even Tampa).

Even though I don't think we've played to our full potential this year (cough, Babcock)... we're still 4th in the league in points per game.

 

[topched]

leafs are an elite team, and have the youngest core in the league.

that's a perfect rebuild.

Quite literally perfect.

What was the preferred scenario - Have less good players so we could avoid cap issues? It's absurd.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

They say timing is everything. Timing for this franchise during our rebuild has been tricky in some regards, but I'm still confident and believe we're on the right track, even with the contract drama and the angst regarding the cap consuming all of us.

 

[AreBe]

Our young GM tried to play hardball but he didn't realize you cant get by with a 75mph fastball.

Had he locked these guys up this past summer, things would be much different. He had a game plan, it failed miserably. Now eye going to lose players because of it.

Or we resign all those non- toughness, soft, not truculent Soviet Red Army passing, skating, play-making Stupid Euro trash players with skills

And round out the roster with minimum wage Good Canadian Kids provided they do more than chirp at the refs while sitting in the penatly box thrwoing a fit.

And all of the young guns are worth 10 million, as the salary cap is going up, some idiot GM has, or gives us, 4 consecutive draft picks you may want to take them! If a guy gets a 10 million $ offer sheet, the GM making the offer is a fool, and so, those draft-picks should be good. This is the salary cap era and so cheap players from the farm count, and so drafting counts, and the Leafs have plenty of cash, so they best have a guy in Vladivostok because that where dart tosses turn to hall of famers, and the Leafs fans can have years of thrills.

Analytics are what is key, and Dubas is into statistics, and so he has his mathematical model of the game and the cap and is implementing it- we need to trust analytics and Money ball more than celebrate penalty box sitting capacity. The old NHL is done and the new one is about skating, speed, spatial awareness and a thinking man's game, and that is why the dinosaurs look as stupid as a sack of sit

 

[PuckMagi]

Tavares the player sure. But and the big but is when you sign Tavares for 11 and make him the second highest paid player in the NHL forget about asking for discounts from your young players. What I’m getting at is that passing up on Tavares and worrying about our own would have been smart. That way we probably would of seen discount deals and probably 8 year deals. When you see Tavares on your team making 11 forget signing for less.

Now we have two of the three going to UFA at a young age and set a precedent of overpaying. Dubas rushes it. Getting a big ticket UFA is great but after you take care of your own. That should be the last thing you do. Not something you do before signing your core to long good deals.

And Tavares is nice but believe me there would of been other UFAs available when the time would of been right

These contract negotiations also remind me of how first time car buyers always get hosed by experienced sales people because they let their excitement get in the way of logic and didn’t wait it out. Dubas caved on 2/3 and reading the Marner articles that agent smells bloood in the water

We're a serious contender. We're going to have a legit shot at the cup for years to come. Without Tavares, we're certainly not the same caliber of team. I also don't think we'd be saving all that much money on the other contracts by not having Tavares.

How much money do you think we would save per year on the Nylander, Matthews, and Marner contracts if we didn't sign Tavares?

Also, guys like Tavares don't come around very often as UFAs. How do you know that we would be able to get a player of his caliber when the time was right? Top 10 players virtually never hit free agency and when they do, you've got a lot of teams trying to sign them. So by not signing Tavares, you're hoping that another big time UFA hits the market exactly at the right time, and then that player decides to sign with the Leafs instead of any of the other teams. And what if you can't sign that big name player? What do you do with the cap space from not signing Tavares and getting the supposed cheaper deal on the younger guys?

My point is that it would be beyond stupid to pass up on Tavares. I'll counter your car buyer analogy with my own analogy. Your line of thinking is like those people who pass up the deal of a lifetime because they always think there's a better deal just around the corner. You have to take your shots when they present themselves, because they might not come around again. I'm not saying to do something impulsive or stupid... but in this situation, the stupid thing to do would be to pass on a guy like Tavares on a 7 year deal.

 

[Puckstuff]

Nylander signs above market value
Matthews signs above market value
Marner wants to get paid Matthews money

Why can't we have nice things?

Nylander at 5.9 million would be a steal.
Matthews at 10.0 million would be a steal.
Marner at 9.5 million would be a steal.
Getting Tavares for FREE was a steal.

If the total combined salary of our 4 stars/superstars was 37 million it would be perceived as a monumental win and amazing deal. If the combined reality is 39.5 million we are going to complain we don't have nice things. It doesn't make sense to get hung up over paying top players close to what their worth.

We are talking about the difference of 2.5 million bucks. We are talking about the difference of Sparks at 750 k as a back up vs Reimer at 3.4 million as a back up. We're going to be good.

We are talking about not having that over paid 3rd line forward like Bozak, but instead of having a cheaper, better one like Moore.

The fact is the difference between 37 million and 39.5 million is nothing to have our core locked in and protected from savage offer sheets.

Our cap is in great shape and Matthews is going to retire a leaf.