Post-Game Talk: Leafs no shows in game 1. Trail series 1-0

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Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
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I guess people forget the raptors were playoff chokers for half a decade before winning.

Even when they were playoff chokers, they still managed to win their share of playoff series.

The Leafs might have to retool without winning a single playoff round.
 

ULF_55

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the very fact that he's been in the league for 33 years speaks volumes, do you actually think Dubas will be a NHL GM (or better) in the year 2051?

Of Course Dubas needs needs time to learn, but I prefer experience over exuberance every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

I don't know if there'll be ice in 2051.

I hope I have to worry about it though!
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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How did we go from a franchise record, 105 points, to a playoff bubble team within 2 years under duabs?
Regular season points won’t matter if you can’t get past the first round of the playoffs.
Let’s say there is no COVID and let’s say Leafs got 115pts and play BJs in the first round of the playoffs and lost 2-0.
Does it change the fact that the Leafs lost in Game 1 of the series while Leafs being a 115pts and BJs being a Wildcard/playoff bubble team?
 

Stand Witness

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the very fact that he's been in the league for 33 years speaks volumes, do you actually think Dubas will be a NHL GM (or better) in the year 2051?

Of Course Dubas needs needs time to learn, but I prefer experience over exuberance every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
Experience is great and valuable but can also be your kryptonite as well. If you have 33 years of experience but are still stuck in old ways then it is useless.

It happens in a ton of workplaces especially with the adoption of new technology and methods. No different in hockey.
 
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rumman

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Kerfoot played well, got the job done as 3C and that line seemed to tilt the ice despite Kappy seeming to be a step slow (for him) and Robertson being a little out matched physically.

Matthews line did good work. Established zone time, battled down low, got a few great chances for their efforts.

Marner was invisible, Soup seemed like the most impactful player on that line.

Defense was a little sloppy, but not a problem.

Both teams had similar number of posts and ten bell chances, and the deciding goal came from a solo rush muffin from the wing. The score could just as easy been 3-2 Jackets/Leafs, 3-0 Leafs, 4-2 Jackets. Korpisalo earned that shutout. We lost a coinflip with one of the top lines being invisible.
imo, Soup looks good because he has a well rounded game, might not dominate in any given area, but does everything well. I'd like more of his ilk and less flash and dash.
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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I’ve seen many superstars - Crosby, Stamkos, to name only a few - who have been held pointless in a playoff game. I totally agree that way too much money is being spent on the 4 forwards, but I believe out of the 4, Matthews deserves it. I’ve felt all along that the first major mistake was going after Tavares (don’t get me wrong, I really like him), but everyone knew Matthews was going to be our #1 centerman, so you DO NOT NEED 2 centers making around $22 million. And if that wasn’t bad enough, you’re paying a winger around $11 million, and sticking your head in the sand (or up your ass) in regards to your bluelins. Dubas was not the person we needed to be handling those negotiations (and I hold Shanny accountable as well), or building the team.
In saying all of this, I’m not blaming Tavares. He was a UFA, and deserved to get paid, it just shouldn’t have been us. And Matthews, as a #1 pick with his skill set and being a centerman, was going to get paid. The only qualm I have with that, is it should have been for a few more years.
my only qualm is,,,,,, "extremely" was used as the adjective

that word should be used if he had scored 2 to win it ,

as for JT i still believe it was the right move at the right time

the mistake was to overpay AM,MM,WN ,,those overpays would be a huge chunk toward a quality Dman.
 

rumman

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It's rather amusing watching the advanced stats crowd harp on marner even though he was our best player, according to there own stats.

Maybe it's time to acknowledge that advanced stats have very little use?

Also, the saddest part is how many fans drank the koolaid and actually believed this team was destined for greatness. The number of times I have heard that this is the best leafs team we have had in 10+ years is ridiculous.

How many teams have lost to their own 40 y.o. emergency back up?

How do you inherit a 105 point team with so much potential and have them regress this far within 2 years?

Dubas needs to go before he does any more damage to this team
amen brother, well said...............
 
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rumman

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Have you checked out what Kevin Hayes, James van Riemsdyk, Joe Pavelski, Evander Kane, Anders Lee, Paul Stastny, Derek Stepan make on their recently signed contracts?
hard to make a point comparing bad contract with other bad contracts imo.............
 

Stamkos4life

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Oct 25, 2018
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Regular season points won’t matter if you can’t get past the first round of the playoffs.
Let’s say there is no COVID and let’s say Leafs got 115pts and play BJs in the first round of the playoffs and lost 2-0.
Does it change the fact that the Leafs lost in Game 1 of the series while Leafs being a 115pts and BJs being a Wildcard/playoff bubble team?

Regular season points matter for getting into the playoffs.

If the season had played out, there is a very real chance we end up on the outside looking in. That's terrible for a gm who inherited such a promising team.

Also, if you have to make such an absurd "what if" post to back up your side, you might be wrong.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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the very fact that he's been in the league for 33 years speaks volumes, do you actually think Dubas will be a NHL GM (or better) in the year 2051?

Of Course Dubas needs needs time to learn, but I prefer experience over exuberance every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
I respect Lou and I think he is legend.
But comparing Dubas and Lou is a moot point. Circumstances are different.
We don’t know what Lou would have done with the resigning of the big three or would JT choose to the Leafs. Would the Muzzin trade happened?
We like to think Lou would have gotten the big three to sign more team friendly contracts, JT would still come home and the Muzzin trade would have happened...but that might not be the case.
Looking at Lou, if Willie hold out, he would trade him regardless just to make a point. I don’t think the trade will be bad but it won’t be 100% value for Willie. How will that affect the team and AM and Marner’s contract?
The roster will definitely be different than the one we see today. Not sure will it be better or worse, as that’s all depend if you are a Lou fans or not.
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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the very fact that he's been in the league for 33 years speaks volumes, do you actually think Dubas will be a NHL GM (or better) in the year 2051?

Of Course Dubas needs needs time to learn, but I prefer experience over exuberance every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
well his , "pay the kids big and early will be the NHL new norm"

could not be more wrong then it was,,,EVERY high end RFA/GM in the league did the exact opposite

none of them got what ours got

and his ,,,speed and skill wins will prove out the same,,,book it
 
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Faltorvo

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Experience is great and valuable but can also be your kryptonite as well. If you have 33 years of experience but are still stuck in old ways then it is useless.

It happens in a ton of workplaces especially with the adoption of new technology and methods. No different in hockey.
what "old ways:???

i don't see f*** all of dumbasses "new ways" getting anything done
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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Regular season points matter for getting into the playoffs.

If the season had played out, there is a very real chance we end up on the outside looking in. That's terrible for a gm who inherited such a promising team.

Also, if you have to make such an absurd "what if" post to back up your side, you might be wrong.
Point is once you made it into the playoffs, being a 115pts team and a playoff bubble team is not a huge diff.
True that The better reg season team will have home ice for 1 more game in the series. But it is not uncommon for the lower seated team to upset.
Would be interesting to see the best of seven series-at least in the first round to be 5 home games for the team with better records and 2 for the other team as a reward for doing better in the regular season.
 
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Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
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well his , "pay the kids big and early will be the NHL new norm"

could not be more wrong then it was,,,EVERY high end RFA/GM in the league did the exact opposite

none of them got what ours got

and his ,,,speed and skill wins will prove out the same,,,book it

Huh? Plenty of rfas got huge money contracts over the past few years....
 
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theTTC

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Aug 17, 2010
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We are not built for dump and chase and playoffs is mostly dump and chase. Having almost no pp for our skill guys doesn't help either. CBJ is very strong on battles and effort. All and all we are in tough against this well coached team with some size. I can hardly remember a team shutting us down so completely. Our dingle dangle is being nullified.
Agreed. Leafs trying to play like they can't. Better to say damn the torpedoes and go like we were designed to - full attacking assault.

Going to lose otherwise, so might as well play our game to see what happens. It's the litmus test for Dubas' vision.
 

rumman

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
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Experience is great and valuable but can also be your kryptonite as well. If you have 33 years of experience but are still stuck in old ways then it is useless.

It happens in a ton of workplaces especially with the adoption of new technology and methods. No different in hockey.
this applies only if the "new" way results in success, at least that's my take. Nothing wrong with trying new ways, but there's something to be said for "if it ain't broke..............."
 

Shanwhatplan

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Mar 31, 2019
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my only qualm is,,,,,, "extremely" was used as the adjective

that word should be used if he had scored 2 to win it ,

as for JT i still believe it was the right move at the right time

the mistake was to overpay AM,MM,WN ,,those overpays would be a huge chunk toward a quality Dman.

So you’re saying paying 2 centers as #1 centers should be paid is okay? To me, it makes sense to have only one actual #1 center, then you use the other money to get that coveted #1 defenseman, assuming there’s one available.
 

rumman

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
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I respect Lou and I think he is legend.
But comparing Dubas and Lou is a moot point. Circumstances are different.
We don’t know what Lou would have done with the resigning of the big three or would JT choose to the Leafs. Would the Muzzin trade happened?
We like to think Lou would have gotten the big three to sign more team friendly contracts, JT would still come home and the Muzzin trade would have happened...but that might not be the case.
Looking at Lou, if Willie hold out, he would trade him regardless just to make a point. I don’t think the trade will be bad but it won’t be 100% value for Willie. How will that affect the team and AM and Marner’s contract?
The roster will definitely be different than the one we see today. Not sure will it be better or worse, as that’s all depend if you are a Lou fans or not.
your right we don't know, and the same can be said above your points in this post.............
 

rumman

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
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well his , "pay the kids big and early will be the NHL new norm"

could not be more wrong then it was,,,EVERY high end RFA/GM in the league did the exact opposite

none of them got what ours got

and his ,,,speed and skill wins will prove out the same,,,book it
I've said it before, and I'll say it again Dubas has got to be the NHLPA's man of the year two years running..........
 
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Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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We have 2 of the top 3 highest paid RFA deals in history. Some will argue cap% but that's tough when we look at the other deals signed

Most teams dont have a player of Matthew's level to sign. One can debate some of the particular details/merits of the individual Leafs contract values but broadly speaking they arent particularly unique.

Star rfas DO get paid post elc unless they get bridged, which seems to happen less and less these days
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
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Most teams dont have a player of Matthew's level to sign. One can debate some of the particular details/merits of the individual Leafs contract values but broadly speaking they arent particularly unique.

Star rfas DO get paid post elc unless they get bridged, which seems to happen less and less these days
Seems like it's pretty unique to pay them before winning a round or hardware, especially at the rates we did. You see big deals, but 10+ for Marner was very surprising on that cap. Even Matthews with his term.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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this applies only if the "new" way results in success, at least that's my take. Nothing wrong with trying new ways, but there's something to be said for "if it ain't broke..............."
Results is the only measuring stick.
If Leafs win the Cup, Dubas deserves credits for building the Leafs. Like all the experts say, this is a copycat league and if you win, and win consistently, you will be credit for starting a trend.
Conversely, if Dubas build the Leafs like other GMs and still can’t win the Cup, we probably will be saying, Thought Dubas was known to bring in new school ideas to make the Leafs diff and better, where are his new ideas, the Leafs is the same old Leafs under Lou, Nonis and Burke except with better players....
Like drafting, we criticize Dubas kept drafting small and skill players, but when they turn into Robertson, we are like great picks, if he turns into Bracco, we are like why Dubas kept getting small players....
Results is the only measuring stick.
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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hard to make a point comparing bad contract with other bad contracts imo.............
i have a compare for you B point (tbay) 6.75per ,rantanen 9.25,,mitch the little bitch 10.9
tkachuk 7m,,Aho 8.5m,,,Laine 6.75m,,Conner 7.15m,,,Meier 6m,,Guentzel 6m,,Debrincat 6.4m,,Keller 7.15

i see one name that does not fit his class
 
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