Leafs need more truculence!!!

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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Tampa is pretty physical. Most of all, Tampa is all intense forecheck. They cut your space and get in between you and the puck. You don't get room to breathe.

Honestly, I like physicality that has the objective of getting in between players and the puck better than physicality with the objective to rough up the opposing player. Probably to the surprise of no one.
Yes. And if the team can’t play it, don’t want to play it, or try but fail to play it, you need to re-evaluate.
And that might mean more than looking at the 4th line to start. It needs to go higher.
 

Bomber0104

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Apr 8, 2007
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We got guys saying it is just false we can't handle physical play. But even if you go by just hits/game, which is not the only definition of physical play, our record against the top 10 teams in the League is around .500. For a team with a record of 42-22-5, a .500 record against teams that hit the most is not very good.

The same people that are downplaying the Leafs soft, weak play on the ice are the same people that downplay every valid criticism towards the team and its players.
 

The S5

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Jul 27, 2017
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You mean defensively? Muzzin can be that guy. He's been a very strong d-man through many years, and was having one of his best seasons before coming here. He's looked a bit shaky defensively, but there's talk that he might be playing through a minor injury.
To be fair, I think the expectation for what Muzzin is was too high. He hasn't been very good..at all.
 

RLF

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May 5, 2014
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Yes. And if the team can’t play it, don’t want to play it, or try but fail to play it, you need to re-evaluate.
And that might mean more than looking at the 4th line to start. It needs to go higher.

Oddly the other post comes from a guy who previously said Tampa isn't very physical and insists we don't struggle against physical play...
 

Dough72

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Sep 3, 2008
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once the breakout passes stop working they do look like a different team. And I think the coaches are getting frustrated because their last attempt to fix the problem looked like desperation. That game where they tried firing the puck the length of the ice while their forwards would try to out-skate the defencemen and negate the icing. I've never seen a team try that play so frequently in one game.
 

56 Years No Cup

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Nov 12, 2007
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What would happen to a football coach if all his team did was try the Hail Mary on every offensive play?

Hint: Unemployment.
 

BlueForever75

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Oct 4, 2017
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Leafs don't need more truculence they need more consistency in their play and not giving up any given night.
 
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Trapper

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Oddly the other post comes from a guy who previously said Tampa isn't very physical and insists we don't struggle against physical play...
Because they think physical play means you have Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage pile driving players for 60 minutes.

How do you separate man from puck when stick waiving isn’t working?
How do you get the puck when you can’t skate it in and have to cycle it?
When you get pinned in your zone for 45 + seconds and can’t get the puck?
 

Al14

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Jul 13, 2007
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Leafs need more truculence, not only on the ice, but, also in the stands, and, at all exit gates to SBA.

The Refs need to be scared for their safety in Toronto. Maybe, if they were, we'd get better non-biased refereeing. It's ridiculous how they treat our Leafs on the ice! JMHO.
 

RLF

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May 5, 2014
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Because they think physical play means you have Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage pile driving players for 60 minutes.

How do you separate man from puck when stick waiving isn’t working?
How do you get the puck when you can’t skate it in and have to cycle it?
When you get pinned in your zone for 45 + seconds and can’t get the puck?

How do you create more offensive zone time by making it harder for the D to make clean passes?
How do you win more rebounds?
How do you limit rebound attempts against?
How do you disrupt a teams breakouts?

I think we could go on and on about the advantages of physical play that does not include sayin your prayers and eatin your vitamins.
 
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nuck

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Aug 18, 2005
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Leafs don't need more truculence they need more consistency in their play and not giving up any given night.

They need both. Matthews has become the club's #2 center. He needs to get back on his game and Willie needs to wake up as well because when these guys are on they are a different team. Not actually "truculence" because that is a Burke era reference to a team concept that doesn't work any more. They don't need more fighters, just less Charmin, but that's something to look at this summer. They can add a lot more grit without touching their core players.

BTW is Matthews hurt?
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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How do you create more offensive zone time by making it harder for the D to make clean passes?
How do you win more rebounds?
How do you limit rebound attempts against?
How do you disrupt a teams breakouts?

I think we could go on and on about the advantages of physical play that does not include sayin your prayers and eatin your vitamins.
It all goes hand in hand with aggressive play. Aggressive puck pursuit, man to man and forecheck.
Why does it always seem teams take away our time and space? We should be taking way theirs.
 

Matthews34

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Oct 9, 2009
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This team desperately needs a Mike Johnson for Darcy Tucker type trade. But in the modern era is that trade even possible? The Tucker type players are a dying breed which has made them very valuable.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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This team desperately needs a Mike Johnson for Darcy Tucker type trade. But in the modern era is that trade even possible? The Tucker type players are a dying breed which has made them very valuable.
How are the other teams doing it?
With what collection?
Tampa is physical when they need to be.
Aggressive when called for.
They limit time and space.
Skilled if that’s what you want.

Who are these guys like Pacquette,Gourde,Cirelli,Joseph,etc through the lineup? They must make 6 million dollars apiece.
How does Tyler Johnson win a puck battle against 2 of our players?
 
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SHANNYPLAN

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Nov 24, 2016
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Leafs Off Season
  1. Fire Babcock, Call up Sheldon Keefe
  2. Re-Sign Marner 8 x 10,160,000
  3. Trade: Nazem Kadri, Connor Brown & 2020 2nd for Boone Jenner & Josh Anderson
  4. Trade: Kasperi Kapanen for Brett Pesce
  5. Trade: Nikita Zaitsev for Zack Kassian
  6. Re-Sign Johnsson 2 x 2.5
  7. Re-Sign Gardiner 7 x 6,000,000
  8. Marleau @ 25% ret to SJS for 2nd/3rd
  9. Sign Wayne Simmonds 2 years x 5 mil
  10. Re-Sign Hainsey 1 year x 1.5 mil
ANDERSON - MATTHEWS - NYLANDER
HYMAN - - - - - TAVARES - - - - MARNER
JOHNSSON - - - JENNER - - SIMMONDS
MOORE - - - - GAUTHIER - - - - KASSIAN

RIELLY - - - - - PESCE
MUZZIN - GARDINER
DERMOTT - HAINSEY

ANDERSEN

Still Have a Ton of Skill
Still Have a Ton of Speed
Now Have a Ton of Grit

Simmonds probably won’t fit within the cap, but can be replaced internally*
 
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RLF

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May 5, 2014
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How are the other teams doing it?
With what collection?
Tampa is physical when they need to be.
Aggressive when called for.
They limit time and space.
Skilled if that’s what you want.

Who are these guys like Pacquette,Gourde,Cirelli,Joseph,etc through the lineup? They must make 6 million dollars apiece.
How does Tyler Johnson win a puck battle against 2 of our players?

:surrender
 

JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,056
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All you have to do is look at size and skating of Tampa's dmen. They are not overly physical but did you see one of them on their *ss the entire game? This is why they beat Boston last year. When you have big boys who can skate on the back end you are very rarely in trouble. The Leafs can't hit Hedman Coburn Cernak McDonaugh Sergachev Rutta. They are all 6ft3 and above and can skate. They physically are not going to get knocked over or intimidated. Even 1 or 2 big boy forecheckers would not make the difference. You would need 5 or 6 to do it. We do not have that kind of roster and never will in next 5 years.
 

Dough72

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
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What would happen to a football coach if all his team did was try the Hail Mary on every offensive play?

Hint: Unemployment.
I don't think it was Babcocks deision to play that way. His team only started leaning this heavily on breakaway passes after the new analytics people took over. I don't think that's a coincidence. Look at the Islanders after Lou took over they did a complete 180 from the previous year where it was all about Hail Mary's and defencemen joining the rush so clearly Management sometimes chooses the direction. I think it's pretty clear they have with the Leafs. Babcock has made several veiled criticisms of the style and the lack of certain skills on his roster.
 
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56 Years No Cup

New and Improved Username!
Nov 12, 2007
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How do you create more offensive zone time by making it harder for the D to make clean passes?
How do you win more rebounds?
How do you limit rebound attempts against?
How do you disrupt a teams breakouts?

I think we could go on and on about the advantages of physical play that does not include sayin your prayers and eatin your vitamins.
You forgot face punching and big hits.
 

JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,056
7,321
I don't think it was Babcocks deision to play that way. His team only started leaning this heavily on breakaway passes after the new analytics people took over. I don't think that's a coincidence. Look at the Islanders after Lou took over they did a complete 180 from the previous year where it was all about Hail Mary's and defencemen joining the rush so clearly Management sometimes chooses the direction. I think it's pretty clear they have with the Leafs. Babcock has made several veiled criticisms of the style and the lack of certain skills on his roster.
True. If you go watch old Red wings games you will see Babs played his centres low as 3rd defenders and to help give dmen 2 breakouts passes. I am not a fan of the front of net pass but he did use it often. Now with skill he had at centre it was likely justified. He formed triangles and used that formation to lead a fast break.

With Leafs he plays 1 winger at opposing teams blue line and another on his blue line and the centre seems to decide what to do based on other teams play. But often he is up the ice.

Every defense is looking for the bomb stretch first. It is why we lead the league in icings. Thank god we are 2nd best face off team in NHL. But my issue with this breakout is even if we hit it then we are not moving for the tip in. It is generally a line change. We never get a full line going at speed into the other teams end.
 
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RLF

Registered User
May 5, 2014
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890
It all goes hand in hand with aggressive play. Aggressive puck pursuit, man to man and forecheck.
Why does it always seem teams take away our time and space? We should be taking way theirs.

Exactly. It is about will and desire. In an effort to get more skilled, I think our management overlooked making sure we also had players with the desire to engage physically instead of trying to always use stick skills to steal pucks. Most likely every GM in the League would like a Tom Wilson, but now they are few and far between.
This issue with us is why, obviously depending on how we handle the playoffs, I am still for moving some skill to acquire more balance of skill and physicality. I would be all for giving NJ a call ( a team that needs scoring) in the off-season and seeing what it would take to make a deal around Wood and Severson. If it takes a Nylander for Severson & Wood based on a deal around the main pieces...get er done imo
 

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