Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 6-3

[GoonieFace]

Too often they:
Don't start on time
Wait to turn it on until the 3rd period when losing
Refuse to throw a hit
Try for the fancy pass
Get out-worked

Some of this is on Babcock

This is 100% personnel. We have too many passengers content on doing skate-bys instead of going to the dirty areas. We are constantly outworked. We have too many perimeter players, time to shake this roster up a little.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I notice that ever since the Quinn era the Leafs have been characterized by a lot of soft skill, somewhat mentally weak and not the most hard working. You have to think this is the product of the celebrity culture they are coddled in constantly.

I don't know about that. I think it's more about the character and makeup of the players that have been acquired.

Many of us have been stating for months now that this team is not physical enough to be successful in the playoffs. This is the time of year when teams begin to bunker down, so I suspect we will continue to see more of the same against bigger teams with a strong work ethic.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Something needs to happen or this squad is going to make another 1st round exit.

Hopefully Cbus and Vancouver drops out and become sellers. If the Leafs could get guys like Anderson and Tanev for picks/prospects they'd be pretty solid.

 

[PromisedLand]

Colorado has kept their top line together, and they basically won the game. Given that example, breaking up your top line in an attempt to win is a big NO in my books.

Colorado went from 1st in their division to wildcard spot lets not forget that

 

[therealkoho]

is it just me but are the Leafs looking more and more out of sync since the first week of december?

 

[ottomaddox]

Something needs to happen or this squad is going to make another 1st round exit.

Hopefully Cbus and Vancouver drops out and become sellers. If the Leafs could get guys like Anderson and Tanev for picks/prospects they'd be pretty solid.

I agree

 

[Nalens Oga]

I'm gonna copy/paste this post from someone else on Reddit. I agreed with what he said though he didn't mention the bad PP setup and how it clogs up the slot instead of utilizing the area behind the net.

"You think Babcock with his genius mind could see that despite our stretch pass system we're not outshooting teams off our rush. How many bonafide rush shooters do we have on our team a la Phil Kessel? Matthews...and that's it. It's just Matthews. Nylander either shoots it high or doesn't shoot at all. Marleau used to be a great one but he's 37 now. Marner would rather pass and (even though he scored off the rush last night) he's pretty good at making his own end-to-end rushes so he doesn't need an "off the rush" system.

Why the f*** are we sending stretch passes to stop in their zone, slow the play down and then cycle to the point? It's just jeopardizing our O-zone entry stats. They play this stupid conflicting system where they want to get it through the neutral zone quickly and at high risk then to take the lowest risk in the offensive zone. Why not just carry the puck in (low risk) and then play your low risk point cycle game? It's baffling and we really don't have enough quality shooters on our team to run the Phil Kessel Special.

AND FURTHERMORE what the f*** kind of $8m. coach is like, "Yup, tips from the point...that's how we'll secure home ice in the first round!" That's low risk playoff hockey and it's boring as hell. It neutralizes all of the offensive talent of your best forwards and relies on your D-men to determine shot quality. You know who sucks at determining shot quality!? Defensemen! There's like maybe 5 or 6 D-men in the league I would trust to run a 5v5 point cycle through and NONE OF THEM are on this team. Rielly has a decent wrister when he's picking top corners with space and time but he is 100% not going to score with that shot down low - but he'll take that shot every time and hope someone bangs it in which hey all 3 of our C's are pretty good at but you know what else they're good at? Creating space and time on their own and using their own offensive instincts to choose when to shoot and when to pass. Guys like Burns, Weber, Subban can do it because if that low shot doesn't get stopped it's like 3x more likely to go in than Rielly's low wrister. Gardiner is the same. Every other defensemen on our team uses the clap bomb because they have weak wristers and they miss the net A LOT. We should not be running a 5v5 point cycle during the regular season ESPECIALLY with our current personnel.
"

 

[Mess]

I don't know about that. I think it's more about the character and makeup of the players that have been acquired.

Many of us have been stating for months now that this team is not physical enough to be successful in the playoffs. This is the time of year when teams begin to bunker down, so I suspect we will continue to see more of the same against bigger teams with a strong work ethic.

I'm just hoping Dubas is watching, and having the same clarity as you are on this team and its composition.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Let's all watch the puck

 

[Highbuds]

Was curious the thoughts on Babcock deciding to pull Andersen with 3 mins left while being only down by one? To me this is up there with Kadri and Gardiner's give aways resulting in goals. If not worse.

In my mind, this show's that Babcock doesn't have any faith in his team or players and sends a poor message. I would think that this Team (which is a good one) has the ability to pot one in 3 mins 5 on 5. Give them two minutes then pull the goalie with one left. Maybe draw a penalty with some pressure. Have some faith in our team - it was just a bad move.

Sorry if this has been discussed - don't have time to read 24 pages.

 

[ShaneFalco]

5 Things I Think I’d Do

Toronto Maple Leafs Notebook: Why hasn't the full lineup found its groove?

1. I think I’d just blow-up the lines because this group looks like it needs a shake-up. Put Kadri back with Marner and Marleau, Matthews with Hyman and Kapanen, and see if Tavares can get Nylander going (with Johnsson on the other side).
2. If the struggles continue, at some point, I think you need to consider pushing Patrick Marleau way down the line-up. That’s too many games in a row now where he is not making any impact whatsoever, while Connor Brown actually acquitted himself quite well alongside Tavares and Marner.
3. I think I’d give it a run of games with Nazem Kadri receiving the tough matchups. He is just not engaged at all right now; I barely notice him in the run of play, and I’m not sure he’s knocked a single guy down yet in 2019 (that is a big part of his game). He gets fired up for that responsibility. Give it to him and challenge him.
4. I think I understood the Leafs switching the defense pairings in the third period against Colorado, but I’d probably just revert them back. I don’t think Travis Dermott is consistent enough with the puck yet to make up for Nikita Zaitsev’s overall inability to advance it successfully, and while I know Jake Gardiner has a pretty bad reputation at the moment, this is still a guy that has a chance for 50 points while playing on the second PP unit all year with Zaitsev by his side at 5v5. He can move the puck.
5. I think I’d be looking to create two power-play units — not because I don’t think the first unit can turn it around, but because you can’t have just the one unit in the playoffs. They need to spread it out a bit; once the second unit steps on, it’s pretty much a complete waste of time. The way playoffs work with matchups and the overall grind, you can’t have only one unit. Start planning ahead now.

 

[Mess]

Was curious the thoughts on Babcock deciding to pull Andersen with 3 mins left while being only down by one? To me this is up there with Kadri and Gardiner's give aways resulting in goals. If not worse.

In my mind, this show's that Babcock doesn't have any faith in his team or players and sends a poor message. I would think that this Team (which is a good one) has the ability to pot one in 3 mins 5 on 5. Give them two minutes then pull the goalie with one left. Maybe draw a penalty with some pressure. Have some faith in our team - it was just a bad move.

Sorry if this has been discussed - don't have time to read 24 pages.

Seemed like a smart decisions when you consider all the facts..

-It followed an icing and Ozone FO with a tired Avs players on the ice in defence, and it didn't include the Avs top line sitting on the bench that do most of their scoring.
- Babs tossed out his best offensive players and 3 centres having Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Kadri, Rielly as if it was a PP, these players. Never going to get a 5-5 combo like that.
- Leafs had only mustered a measly 13 shots on goal after 2 periods and 1 goal on 1 shot into the 3rd so 5-5 and PP was not generating offense.
- Leafs and lots of teams are pulling the goalie earlier than in the past.

What better time, situation and match-up could you have asked for to try and even the score?

I think you're only questioning it not likely the outcome of the gamble, but the gamble itself was not the problem the Leafs losing the face-off and getting beaten to a lose puck by a tired team and them banks hotting the puck 100ft into an empty net.

 

[LeafSteel]

I'm gonna copy/paste this post from someone else on Reddit. I agreed with what he said though he didn't mention the bad PP setup and how it clogs up the slot instead of utilizing the area behind the net.

Thanks for sharing this.

It’s well written.

My concern is our lack of pushback. I saw more give a crap from my 9 year olds A team this weekend in their championship game.

 

[Slyfox]

I think its time to try different D-pairings. I want to see Rielly -Gardiner and Dermott -Hainsey together.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Seemed like a smart decisions when you consider all the facts..

-It followed an icing and Ozone FO with a tired Avs players on the ice in defence, and it didn't include the Avs top line sitting on the bench that do most of their scoring.
- Babs tossed out his best offensive players and 3 centres having Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Kadri, Rielly as if it was a PP, these players. Never going to get a 5-5 combo like that.
- Leafs had only mustered a measly 13 shots on goal after 2 periods and 1 goal on 1 shot into the 3rd so 5-5 and PP was not generating offense.
- Leafs and lots of teams are pulling the goalie earlier than in the past.

What better time, situation and match-up could you have asked for to try and even the score?

I think you're only questioning it not likely the outcome of the gamble, but the gamble itself was not the problem the Leafs losing the face-off and getting beaten to a lose puck by a tired team and them banks hotting the puck 100ft into an empty net.

With that much time left he could have gotten Andersen up to the blue line to make sure we won the draw.if we lose the draw Andersen goes back in and we still have lots of time to get him out.

 

[Mess]

With that much time left he could have gotten Andersen up to the blue line to make sure we won the draw.if we lose the draw Andersen goes back in and we still have lots of time to get him out.

That would be no different than a normal oZone face-off late in the game after any icing call.

The extra man advantage is the entire goal of pulling the goalie.

Losing the FO, and losing the puck battle to keep the puck in the zone was the problem.

 

[Cor]

I think we might need to split up Marner and Tavares for the time being. Try and get more of a balanced lineup going.

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Johnsson - Tavares - Nylander
Brown - Kadri - Kapanen
Marleau - Gauthier - Lindholm

On defense, it's painfully obvious Gardiner and Zaitsev need to be split up, and Dermott needs to be in the top 4.

Rielly - Dermott
Gards - Hainsey
Marincin - Zaitsev

 

[Highbuds]

Seemed like a smart decisions when you consider all the facts..

-It followed an icing and Ozone FO with a tired Avs players on the ice in defence, and it didn't include the Avs top line sitting on the bench that do most of their scoring.
- Babs tossed out his best offensive players and 3 centres having Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Kadri, Rielly as if it was a PP, these players
- Leafs had only mustered a measly 13 shots on goal after 2 periods and 1 goal on 1 shot into the 3rd so 5-5 and PP was not generating offense.
- Leafs and lots of teams are pulling the goalie earlier than in the past.

What better time, situation and match-up could you have asked for to try and even the score?

I think you're only questioning it not likely the outcome of the gamble, but the gamble itself was not the problem the Leafs losing the face-off and getting beaten to a lose puck by a tired team and them banks hotting the puck 100ft into an empty net.

I understand that and they mentioned this in the broadcast. And I do realize that most teams are pulling the goalie earlier. Most teams aren't us though. Babcock could still load up a line and left Andersen in and give the boys a chance. I don't really care who's on the ice and who's tired. We can dominate 5 on 5 against anyone. 13 shots is more an argument for leaving the goalie in then pulling him.

I would have loaded a line up against that tired line and kept Andersen in. Threw the game away with three minutes left. All it took was one lost face off and boom - game over.

Thanks for the response - was curious if people just bought what the guys on the broadcast said.

I was angry at the time and obviously the result. Especially after what happened prior.

 

[Mess]

I understand that and they mentioned this in the broadcast. And I do realize that most teams are pulling the goalie earlier. Most teams aren't us though. Babcock could still load up a line and left Andersen in and give the boys a chance. I don't really care who's on the ice and who's tired. We can dominate 5 on 5 against anyone. 13 shots is more an argument for leaving the goalie in then pulling him.

I would have loaded a line up against that tired line and kept Andersen in. Threw the game away with three minutes left. All it took was one lost face off and boom - game over.

Thanks for the response - was curious if people just bought what the guys on the broadcast said.

I was angry at the time and obviously the result. Especially after what happened prior.

A coach is playing the odds and the deck was stacked in Leafs favor and against the Avs.

You might never get a better chance to line-up your 6 best offensive players in the Ozone than that exact situation we had.

Avs goalie Varlamov was forced to make only 17 saves all game as Leafs got outworked, outplayed, outscored .. Not sure you can use the Leafs have lots of offensive talent to overcome a deficit reasons for not pulling the goalie and then complain when all the best ones are all together on the ice at the same time in the offensive zone and call that a mistake, or claim Babs could have stacked lines later on, to achieve that exact same combo that was out there.

Would it have mattered any differently if there was 3 minutes or that same thing happened with 1 minute on the clock with the goalie out and same player formation?

Leafs never scored another goal after going down 4-3 so that 5-3 empty netter coaches decision didn't change anything as the GWG that cost the Leafs the loss was the 4th one, and that happened prior to pulling the goalie and not giving up 2 X empty netters.

 

[The CyNick]

The goalie out was the right call. Players didn't execute and Avs got a lucky bounce. Simple as that. Saying otherwise is using hindsight.

 

[SweLeafsFan]

This was just painful to watch. Kadri, Nylander and Marleau wouldn't score on a soccer net right now. Maybe an away game against Tampa is exactly what we need right now.

 

[great]

I think we might need to split up Marner and Tavares for the time being. Try and get more of a balanced lineup going.

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Johnsson - Tavares - Nylander
Brown - Kadri - Kapanen
Marleau - Gauthier - Lindholm

On defense, it's painfully obvious Gardiner and Zaitsev need to be split up, and Dermott needs to be in the top 4.

Rielly - Dermott
Gards - Hainsey
Marincin - Zaitsev

This is good, but the question is will Babs make any changes.

 

[Legendary]

Hainsey played that 2 on 1 on Kadris giveaway terribly.

 

[Polaris1010]

Someone said it best in one of these threads last night, that this team was better when Tavares was #1 center, and Kadri #2 center, and forget who were #3 & #4 centers when Nylander was holding out and Matthews was injured.

This is on the kids.

Before when they were not in the lineup, the Leafs moving up in the standing. Now they are in the lineup, the Leafs moving down in the standings.

The simple solution is to shuffle the lineup until they find something that works.

The Leafs right now do not need 3 lines going, they need 2 lines going.

Now only 1 line is going good.

I think they should break up the number 1 line to balance out the offense.

 

[Highbuds]

The goalie out was the right call. Players didn't execute and Avs got a lucky bounce. Simple as that. Saying otherwise is using hindsight.

Well I'll have to disagree. Thought 3 minutes left was way too early at the time and I think it sends a message of our coach not believing his team can do anything 5 x 5. I would have preferred giving our guys a chance 5 x 5 for a minute or two. Then pull the goalie. Some games, yes, 2.5 - 3 minutes I can get on side with. This game you just knew something like what happened would happen. Hindsight did tell me my original thought and concern was correct. The lack of execution and bounce I will agree with.