Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-1

[JT AM da real deal]

We had too many guys out for a Sunday skate. But it really did not matter to either team in a no hit contest. I thought we would win that type of game. We usually do. But Vasi was Vasi and he shut the door. But alarming trend is too many goalies the past month having been shutting the door on us. Our supposed scorers, outside of Tavares, are not doing their jobs. After past month of tighter checking hockey I am not sold on any of Kappy, Willy or Johnsson. My gut is telling me I would keep Kappy as he brings more weapons to the table and he is most intense and emotional of 3. He can bring more speed then other 2 and he can kill penalties. I am getting closer to unloading both Willy and Johnsson. I think Johnsson is gone anyways because he wants too much so I think he will be piece we use to entice someone to pick up Z. I think Shanny will make a decision to get rid of both Willy and Johnsson if we are gone again in 1st round. Those 2 guys will get us 3 D who can defend. One of which can play 1st pair with Rielly. We have Bracco ready to play with Matty next season so Willy will have to move to 3rd line centre or maybe Kadri goes. I can't see any other way unless Marleau goes that we keep these guys under CAP and if we do it will be same old same old next year come this time with not enough defense to win.

 

[justafan22]

Our 4th line is getting killed out there against recently.. They might be cheap when it comes to Cap usage, but its starting to show also that you get what you pay for.

When Matthews and Marner new cap busting deals kick in the gap between the haves and have-nots the first group are very wealthy and the second group are very poor is also going to be very reflective of his in terms of depth and talent level.

We as Leaf Nation are going to have to get use to JT, Mitch and Auston caring the load nightly offensively because proportionately they will be consuming a very large portion of the hard cap space.

4th line isn't going to be playing much come next week.

 

[Notsince67]

I think Dreger said it. Everybody else have said that the Marner camp was not interested in negotiating before this season.

Even so, giving a $9M long-term contract when Marner's comparables at that point average about $7.8M would be quite the bet on potential. It would obviously look good now but it would get roasted at the time of the signing for a good reason.

There were very coherent arguments made on this forum in the off season justifying it. The problem is that a lot of people arrogantly dismissed them because they couldn't see the value of hedging a real risk. They were too focused on chanting something like Marner is closer to Nylander than to Matthews.

 

[therealkoho]

The Nothing Burger Cup is taking place in Montreal on Saturday.

Please rest players.

Montreal is not eliminated and if anything the Leafs being the eliminator on their ice couldn't be anymore delicious

It was tight. Until it wasn't.

That's what sh.....nvm

He dumped that and was chasing the puck down. He was skating into 3 players and would surely have turned the puck over. He loves to carry the puck if there was any chance he could, he would. That’s a dumb comment right there. I agree he’s soft. But you’re seeing what you want to see

ironic though isn't it?

Montreal eliminated. Nothing game on Saturday.

not yet, life support for sure but still brain activity

Don’t forget Some appear to be inept mentally as well

ah yes the denizens of LeaFland, but they've been around since the 60's

Columbus plays the Rangers and the Sens. I know anything can happen in the NHL but I would be shocked if they lose out in regulation.

Habs are done if you ask me.

I hope Columbus blow's it tonight and the Leafs can close the door on the Canadiens Saturday in their barn

 

[notDatsyuk]

If Sparks had played this game and let in either of those goals, this entire thread would have been about how terrible he is.

 

[razkaz]

If Sparks had played this game and let in either of those goals, this entire thread would have been about how terrible he is.

Andersen was beaten on a 1 on 1 by Stamkos. The second goal looked like it went off Rosen and slowed down to fool Andersen. In both those goals he was in a great position, something Sparks lacks

 

[ACC1224]

If Sparks had played this game and let in either of those goals, this entire thread would have been about how terrible he is.

Andersen did look like Sparks on the winning goal.

 

[Mess]

So what can they do? Marner and Matthews are still on ELCs and they still couldn't get very much depth scoring. We just have to hope Kadri and Willy bounce back. If they are still here next year, that is. Kadri and Willy have to have a good playoffs too this season.

Its why many knowledgeable hockey minds will tell you that this year is the Leafs best odds of winning the Cup with AM & MM on their ELCs.

Despite both players still being here during the next 5 year window their contracts going from <$ 2 mil to > $20 mil with a fixed cap is going to have a major impact on surrounding team depth.

Everybody knows that simply by paying your own players more $$ it doesn't make them better more impactful players nor you team better in the process. Mitch scoring 93 points this year making $895k and scoring 93 points next year making $10 mil will not be player production issue, it will be how does your team around him look when you have to take -$9 mil from your depth to cover his raise for the same output.

The stars will still score, but it will be team depth that determines a teams success.

 

[34]

8-17 against the top 10 D teams. The Leafs are lucky to be in the playoffs.

This is just it. They barely squeaked in. 1 point!

 

[Mess]

4th line isn't going to be playing much come next week.

They only play 8-9 minutes now

Ice time Season results:
Gauthier - 69 games ATOI/g .. 8:20
Moore ---- 24 games ATOI/g ...9:01
Ennis ----- 51 games .................9:56 (with PP time)
Petan ....... 7:38 minutes

The goat has 3 goals Moore 1 goal etc on the season so they have little to no impact offensively and they're getting eaten alive and trapped in their own zone defensively.

How much less do you expect them to play? Leafs can't run just 3 lines series after series either.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Andersen did look like Sparks on the winning goal.

Those knuckle ball goals that deflect and float weird are really hard to put on any goalie. I give Freddy the pass on that one. But it is borderline.

The breakaway common folks give it a rest. The culprit on that one was Rielly who let his weak shot go on net and then skated into offensive zone on PP watching his shot. He was not even thinking defense. He was puck watching. This is the issue that kills teams in the playoffs. Stammer saw Rielly was puck watching and took advantage of him. This is also the systematic disadvantage of going with 1 defense on PP.

 

[egd27]

8-17 against the top 10 D teams. The Leafs are lucky to be in the playoffs.

Where did you find that little gem?

 

[Brobust]

The Lightning play no-nonsense hockey. Every player executes every single decision as if the game depends on it.

The leafs play almost the opposite. Except for Hyman-Tavares-Marner, and even that line is extremely flawed defensively.

 

[ACC1224]

Those knuckle ball goals that deflect and float weird are really hard to put on any goalie. I give Freddy the pass on that one. But it is borderline.

The breakaway common folks give it a rest. The culprit on that one was Rielly who let his weak shot go on net and then skated into offensive zone on PP watching his shot. He was not even thinking defense. He was puck watching. This is the issue that kills teams in the playoffs. Stammer saw Rielly was puck watching and took advantage of him. This is also the systematic disadvantage of going with 1 defense on PP.

Yeah, I wasn't faulting him for it.
Was a comment I heard at the bar last night.

 

[Nineteen67]

Where did you find that little gem?

Feschuk pointed it out a week back on Leafs Lunch, but I heard it well before that

 

[Nineteen67]

I have a bad feeling that our depth is overrated. We are not getting a lot of scoring from guys not named Matthews, Marner, and JT. Haven't all year.

The slide started when the rest of the coaches decided to let the Kappys, Browns, Hymans roam free and get sticks in front of Matthews etc....Simplified, , I know, but there is a lot of truth to it

 

[Brobust]

Where did you find that little gem?

The leafs record against top 10 defensive teams ranked by scoring chance/60:

1. Minnesota - 1-1
2. Boston - 1-3
3. San Jose - 2-0
4. Vegas - 2-0
5. Calgary - 1-1
6. Montreal - 3-0
7. Columbus - 2-1
8. Carolina - 1-2
9. Florida - 2-1-1
10. Dallas - 1-1

Total record - 16-10-1

Some of the teams on the list are surprising but these the the ten teams best at limiting scoring chances. Toronto's record is pretty great against them.

 

[egd27]

8-17 against the top 10 D teams. The Leafs are lucky to be in the playoffs.

The leafs record against top 10 defensive teams ranked by scoring chance/60:

1. Minnesota - 1-1
2. Boston - 1-3
3. San Jose - 2-0
4. Vegas - 2-0
5. Calgary - 1-1
6. Montreal - 3-0
7. Columbus - 2-1
8. Carolina - 1-2
9. Florida - 2-1-1
10. Dallas - 1-1

Total record - 16-10-1

Some of the teams on the list are surprising but these the the ten teams best at limiting scoring chances. Toronto's record is pretty great against them.

Two very different stories, however one shows their work and one references Feschuk.

Hmmmmmmm what to think, what to think.

 

[The CyNick]

People take losses hard. We've all been there.

As a measuring stick game we measure up fine for where we our on our journey.

Remember some of the fanbase lacks maturity. Some are hardened by decades of ineptitude.

Some of them have also accepted that this team should be in regression under the new management regime. That's not a good look.

 

[Trapper]

They only play 8-9 minutes now

Ice time Season results:
Gauthier - 69 games ATOI/g .. 8:20
Moore ---- 24 games ATOI/g ...9:01
Ennis ----- 51 games .................9:56 (with PP time)
Petan ....... 7:38 minutes

The goat has 3 goals Moore 1 goal etc on the season so they have little to no impact offensively and they're getting eaten alive and trapped in their own zone defensively.

How much less do you expect them to play? Leafs can't run just 3 lines series after series either.

I see a future of blaming much of the depth players moving forward.
That’s the issue when you commit too much money to 4 forwards.
4 forwards with depth of Petan,Ennis,Goat,etc is probably less than 3 forwards with depth of improved D, more Kadri,Johnsson level players.

 

[Mess]

I see a future of blaming much of the depth players moving forward.
That’s the issue when you commit too much money to 4 forwards.
4 forwards with depth of Petan,Ennis,Goat,etc is probably less than 3 forwards with depth of improved D, more Kadri,Johnsson level players.

Agreed

Pretty soon its going to look like

XXXX - Matthews -- Nylander
XXXX - Tavares --- Marner
Marlie -- Marlie --- Marlie
Marlie -- Marlie --- Marlie

Rielly --- XXXX
Dermott -- Zaitsev
Marlie -- Marlie
Marlie

Andersen
Marlie

Players like Kappy and Johnsson are essentially Marlie equivalents while on their ELC,. but that changes after this year as is Dermott etc.

The key is going to be able to find cheap/ELC depth and also highly productive depth.. It doesn't do you much good if that player is only cheap like Moore, Gauthier and Petan and don't produce anything.

Leafs 4th line is already being exposed now and Leafs have +$20 mil extra fee cap because AM and MM are still essentially Marlie equivalent ELC deals at present.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

There were very coherent arguments made on this forum in the off season justifying it. The problem is that a lot of people arrogantly dismissed them because they couldn't see the value of hedging a real risk. They were too focused on chanting something like Marner is closer to Nylander than to Matthews.

This is correct. The argument the Nylander supporters were giving was "Marner hasn't separated himself that much from Nylander and doesn't deserve much more."

Many of us said Marner had already separated himself from Nylander since the Christmas break of the preceding season where he played at a level Nylander has never come close to playing at and never will. Not to mention Marner was a penalty killer now. And not to mention Marner did not get benched in 3rd periods, like Nylander did, because the coaching staff can't trust him.

Oh and Marner was our best player ion the playoffs last year and Nylander quit.

Besides all that...Marner wasn't any better and couldn't ask for more money! Or so they said...

We further went on to say that Marner, being the obviously better player to anyone who wasn't blind, would only distance himself further during the upcoming season to the point where it would become abundantly obvious to even the nuttiest Nylander supporters that Marner was better and would get significantly more money.

A lot of foresight there.

 

[Mess]

The Lightning play no-nonsense hockey. Every player executes every single decision as if the game depends on it.

The leafs play almost the opposite. Except for Hyman-Tavares-Marner, and even that line is extremely flawed defensively.

I was amazed how heavy a game TB played, because I watched how they consistently finished their checks on many players after a Leaf touched the puck and then got hit into the boards at its completion.

Over the course of a series all those will pay dividends, even if you want to play a skilled fast style game overall.

 

[Marshy]

Some of them have also accepted that this team should be in regression under the new management regime. That's not a good look.

And still some others have accepted that progression isn't always linear. That's a realistic look.

 

[The CyNick]

And still some others have accepted that progression isn't always linear. That's a realistic look.

Let's see what happens. I think this organization is losing their vision on the prize.