The way to make McDavid even happier is to trade his best friend on the team. Nurse is the last guy they trade after the big 2.
Speculation: Leafs looking for a trade: Timashov, Harpur, Bracco made available
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Goalies receive significantly less than you'd expect back in a trade.
What I meant though was a trade revolving around those two.
Big Muddy
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I think Nurse would be one of the players least likely to be available in Edmonton. It would take something pretty significant to get him out of there I'd think. So, I'd have to wonder if a package of mediocre/middling assets would be enough?
Big Muddy
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So you think the Rangers are going to get a good young middle 6 roster player and a prospect for pending UFA Kreider?
Yeah, I'm going to say that seems highly unlikely
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Depth order of current left wingers:
1. Hyman
2. Mikheyev
2a. Johnsson
3. Engvall
4. Timashov
5. Moore.
To me, Moore is JAG. Easily, and already, replaced.
1. Hyman
2. Mikheyev
2a. Johnsson
3. Engvall
4. Timashov
5. Moore.
To me, Moore is JAG. Easily, and already, replaced.
Big Muddy
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Good UFAs have often returned a 1st, a prospect & a pick over the years. Its probably a little less now (i.e. drop one of those assets), but don't think that has changed much in the last 2 or 3 years. My best guess is they are looking for more of a pick/prospect type return given they are rebuilding.
Just my personal opinion, and I'm not trying to ruffle feathers here, but I think figuring out what the other team wants is the first step in developing a reasonable trade scenario. I get that we'd prefer offering one or more of our (more) expendable assets, but have to wonder how many of those trade ideas actually come to fruition. Just my opinion of course, and others will have other ideas no doubt, so I can see risk in even suggesting this.
That's great because there's very little chance the Rangers are getting Kapanen type of value for a pending UFA
If you look at what Hall got it's a bunch of picks and some very meh prospects and he still has league MVP shine to him
A resigned Stone went for one very good prospect
The Rangers wish they could get Kapanen for him, that's way to much for a pending UFA
Big Muddy
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https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/26078667/golden-knights-acquire-mark-stone-trade-senators
"The cost for Stone was steep for Vegas: Defenseman Erik Brannstrom, 19, who was selected 15th overall in 2017 by the Golden Knights and is considered an elite puck-moving defensive prospect. The Knights also sent forward Oscar Lindberg and a second-round pick in 2020 that belonged to the Dallas Stars."
Hall traded to Coyotes by Devils
"Taylor Hall was traded to the Arizona Coyotes by the New Jersey Devils on Monday.
The Devils received forwards Nicholas Merkley and Nate Schnarr, defenseman Kevin Bahl, a conditional first-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft, and a conditional third-round pick in the 2021 NHL Draft for Hall and forward Blake Speers"
Its hard to judge what a collection of prospects & picks turns out to be for a few years. The return for Karlsson was also a collection of assets that were actually pretty good, yet many I suspect thought the return wasn't great at the time of the trade.
I haven't mentioned Kapanen, so not sure why you are bringing that up. I did mention that imho the Rangers (a rebuilding team) may be more interested in a futures type trade.
I do agree that GMs are getting smarter than they used to be when it comes to trades for pending free agents.
LeafalCrusader
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I'd take Moore over Timashov and he plays both wings.
I believe Nurse was Dubas' 1st ever OHL draft pick
It's going to be either one good future or a bunch of lesser assets based around futures if history is any guide
If you managed to hit on somebody like Kapanen out of that lot you'd be fairly happy that's why I've stated I don't think Kreider is worth a Kapanen + Bracco package even if the Rangers were willing to accept it (they should based on pure value, you can always trade those more valuable assets)
That's why when you were saying that that's not what there looking for your right but the value is that high I think your wrong, they would take it and we'd be stupid to offer it
A bit crazy how we went from having only 2 NHL LW's to 6 in a matter of a couple months.
But Moore over Timashov, easily.
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ULF_55
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But Timashov probably has some value now, due to the injury to Moore.
Not a lot, but I'd say he can play in the NHL, where he goes no one knows yet.
JayfromNB1219
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seems like a guy who can't get his game together... obviously there is some talent there (19th overall isn't usually a bum) but I don't know how much i'd be willing to part with for a maybe...
Agostino/Marincin and Bracco for DeAngelo and a 2nd or 3rd
JayfromNB1219
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Yuck...we don't need more hot garbage on the Defensive end...and we have Rielley for a #1 Dman...Subban would be akin to Barrie this year...a waste of cap space without being slotted in beside Mo
Kreider doesn't fit under the cap unless the Rangers retain and the Leafs ship out salary. One or the other doesn't do it unless you're sending over Ceci, who cap hit is roughly equivalent to Kreider's.
The Kapanen and Bracco package doesn't work without maximum retention.
I don't know that I would want the Leafs to go there. Kreider doesn't really add that much to what they already have, and it's a very short-term investment. I would rather keep the Leafs young players.
Now, shipping assets for Georgiev alone would be fine by me, depending on the price.
Big Muddy
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Regarding the 1st bolded sentence, generally I agree, except that many of those trades for top/good free agents did involve both. There was a decent asset(s) plus a bunch of either picks and/or prospects that are a bit of a wild card. But if there's a bunch of those kind of assets, then there's a decent chance that one pans out in addition to the decent piece they've received. The part that makes it more difficult to judge is that when it involves assets such as prospects &/or picks (in addition to the main piece), it can take time for the results to manifest themselves.
Again, the focus comes back to Kapanen which I guess is based on what our ceiling is, or best asset that we may want to offer. All I'm saying is maybe the Rangers are looking to address other priorities and needs which they could source from multiple other teams. I'd guess they'd be more inclined to look at those options from other teams first. What they find ultimately, I don't know and its hard to tell because there are numerous other possibilities and teams to investigate.
Aquiring Kreider is just a short term burn of assets that doesn't address either of our greatest needs, doesn't make much sense at all if you think about it
Georgiev is interesting but the way people are talking about him you would think he's a no doubt high end starter and are willing to trade assets to that value, I like him but he's not that and there's doubts he will ever be that
You can get a good starter in UFA for 5M a year, I think I'd rather do that the give up a ton for a question mark like Georgiev or give Andersen 8M+ a year
The Hall trade was from a probable playoff team, those picks aren't going to be early and the prospects were meh, Stone was for one prospect who may or may not be top 4 eventually
That's nothing special, when your selling pending UFA'S your usually in line for nothing special, your not getting roster players with top 6 upside that are young enough to be a part of your rebuild
We won't ever know because I'd hope were not stupid enough to offer Kapanen up for either of those players, they aren't worth him
Big Muddy
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Good point. Kreider and Georgiev would be about (approx) $5.4 m in, with only about $4 m going out (Kap & Bracco). Bracco is a RFA next season as well.
Also, I think Kreider's no trade list has all Canadian teams on it.
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Didn't they trade for that AHLer on Philly who injured and beefed with McDavid and at the time wasn't even the #7 dman on Philly?
That's such a blatant and intentional slap in his face. It's not like this player was so important that he was needed to turn that franchise around. I felt second hand anger for that. I don't know what kind of management would want to disrespect the face of their organization like that and for no good reason.
I don't think they give a f*** what McDavid thinks, as little sense as that makes lol
Big Muddy
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The problem with Ottawa trades is that every GM knows that Ottawa won't pay their free agents anything close to their market value (thinking Stone trade here). Let's see how Brannstrom works out as well - still very early. He looked really good in the last game I saw him in and he was rated very highly at the time of the trade (other than Makar, best d-man prospect iirc).
Having said that, in the Karlsson trade, they got two NHL players (a top 4 defender, and a top nine center) along with a bunch of other good assets that have decent futures ahead of them (Norris, Balcers, plus what could be the 6-8th overall pick in this year's draft, etc.).
I'm not sure how the Coyotes trade will work out for the Devils because its still very early to judge that. People said the same kind of thing when Karlsson was traded.
And, as someone else pointed out, even if the Rangers decided they were interested in Kapanen versus dealing with their other priorities, the proposed trade wouldn't work because of salary cap constraints. I'd say all of what I mentioned are the real world factors at work that don't necessarily add up to Rangers wanting Kapanen.
Evidently, you don't want to trade Kapanen either which makes this even a more confusing trade conversation as well....?
Personally, if Dubas thinks Georgiev or Krieder would be part of a winning solution here, I'm all for a trade with them that involves as little as possible from us. I'm just not sure that's what the Rangers are after and that's the first step I think of when it comes to trade scenarios. Let's end this on that positive note.
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