Rumor: Leafs heavily scouting Carolina

[Mess]

That's not how LTIR works - Marleau couldn't be Horton's replacement, as his cap hit is higher than Horton's.

The CBA states you can replace an injured player with one making equal or more than the injured player, then for all intents and purposes you just need to cover the difference as the 2 players count as 1 essentially and not both as contacts overlap.

In order for the Leafs to be able to get the full $5.3 mil LTIR in reimbursement money on a daily basis at least, as you are allowed to overspend the hard cap by as much as Horton makes.

So you would have $950k below the Hard Cap and $5.3 mil above the ceiling if we're using Marleau as the example.

One of the reasons the Leafs were able to gamble on Marleau X 3 years is that Leafs had Horton's LTIR X 3 years as an overlapping security blanket, just in case the Leafs needed to spend to the full cap ceiling, when resigning Mitch, Auston and Willy.

 

[ottomaddox]

Yes, considering we have a lot to offer.

Faulk is not good enough for what we'd have to give back.

Is Nylander, Matthews, Marner, and Tavares available?

If we are talking Mango, Brown, Kap, Moore,and Kadri then are we getting their best 2 defensemen?

 

[IBeL34f]

The CBA states you can replace an injured player with one making equal or more than the injured player, then for all intents and purposes you just need to cover the difference.

In order for the Leafs to be able to get the full $5.3 mil LTIR in reimbursement money on a daily basis at least, as you are allowed to overspend the hard cap by as much as Horton makes.

So you would have $950k below the Hard Cap and $5.3 mil above the ceiling if we're using Marleau as the example.

One of the reasons the Leafs were able to gamble on Marleau X 3 years is that Leafs had Horton's LTIR X 3 years as an overlapping security blanket, just in case the Leafs needed to spend to the full cap ceiling.

Can you provide some reference for this?

My understanding is that the only way that we have full access to Horton's full AAV in our LTIR pool would be if we had no actual cap space - As soon as you try to use that LTIR pool on a player whose AAV ($6.25M) is higher than what's available in the LTIR pool (Max. $5.3M from Horton) you're exceeding the salary cap. If you're $950K below the hard cap, then Horton's contribution to the LTIR pool would be only $4.35M ($5.3M - $950K), not the entire $5.3M of his AAV.

LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Sypher04]

Why is that such a stretch? Do you think the Canes are just going to give up Slavin or Pesce for what we are offering?

Who says we are offering anything or that Carolina is even open to moving anyone anymore? There doesn't seem to be anything new to suggest there is any current trade dialog between us. And Carolina already moved some defense out

 

[nuck]

Why is that such a stretch? Do you think the Canes are just going to give up Slavin or Pesce for what we are offering?

He had a good year but he is a pure rental who will be looking for a long term deal next season that they can't afford. They won't be moving cost controlled assets for 1 year of JF. Slavin was never a possibility but Pesce or Hamilton maybe (although Dougie isn't cheap). Also we don't know what they might have been offering, if any offer was made. probably not Kappy and Zaits

 

[BrainyBomber]

Who says we are offering anything or that Carolina is even open to moving anyone anymore? There doesn't seem to be anything new to suggest there is any current trade dialog between us. And Carolina already moved some defense out

The insider bigmouths have been saying so all year and continue to do so.

They moved out De Haan who was an LD to make room for Bean and Fleury on that side.

They still have too many RD (Pesce, Hamilton, Faulk and TVR) and want forward help.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

The insider bigmouths have been saying so all year and continue to do so.

They moved out De Haan who was an LD to make room for Bean and Fleury on that side.

They still have too many RD (Pesce, Hamilton, Faulk and TVR) and want forward help.

Moving out De Haan means Pesce will be playing LD for the foreseeable future, as he did for much of last season.

Fleury/Bean will take the LD spot on the third pairing, which is where De Haan was

Edit: Sorry, I saw this thread on the homepage and thought it was the trade board.

 

[The Iceman]

Why do you think he waived to leave?
He's not coming back.

Maybe part of an original gentlemens agreement???

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe part of an original gentlemens agreement???

Maybe.....I seriously doubt it though.

 

[Discoverer]

The CBA states you can replace an injured player with one making equal or more than the injured player, then for all intents and purposes you just need to cover the difference as the 2 players count as 1 essentially and not both as contacts overlap.

In order for the Leafs to be able to get the full $5.3 mil LTIR in reimbursement money on a daily basis at least, as you are allowed to overspend the hard cap by as much as Horton makes.

So you would have $950k below the Hard Cap and $5.3 mil above the ceiling if we're using Marleau as the example.

One of the reasons the Leafs were able to gamble on Marleau X 3 years is that Leafs had Horton's LTIR X 3 years as an overlapping security blanket, just in case the Leafs needed to spend to the full cap ceiling, when resigning Mitch, Auston and Willy.

I don't understand why you're treating this as if the only way to use Horton's LTIR was to sign Marleau.

 

[Sypher04]

The insider bigmouths have been saying so all year and continue to do so.

They moved out De Haan who was an LD to make room for Bean and Fleury on that side.

They still have too many RD (Pesce, Hamilton, Faulk and TVR) and want forward help.

Pesce plays both sides. I heard rumour that Pesce asked for a trade, I think here, I have no idea how credible or if it was ever substantiated, but that's the only way I see Carolina moving another D. Or at least one we would be interested in, which is not Faulk

 

[Fogelhund]

Pesce plays both sides. I heard rumour that Pesce asked for a trade, I think here, I have no idea how credible or if it was ever substantiated, but that's the only way I see Carolina moving another D. Or at least one we would be interested in, which is not Faulk

Pesce possibly did ask for a trade. Around late fall last year, when his usage wasn't to his liking. The relationship was mended, and he had pretty good minutes after that as well.

If Carolina is moving a D now, their preference for moving out a RD will be Faulk, Hamilton, then Pesce, with Pesce being high unlikely, unless you make a VERY attractive offer... such as Marner for Pesce..

 

[member 300185]

Is Nylander, Matthews, Marner, and Tavares available?

If we are talking Mango, Brown, Kap, Moore,and Kadri then are we getting their best 2 defensemen?

Nylander at least should be available.

 

[Sypher04]

Pesce possibly did ask for a trade. Around late fall last year, when his usage wasn't to his liking. The relationship was mended, and he had pretty good minutes after that as well.

If Carolina is moving a D now, their preference for moving out a RD will be Faulk, Hamilton, then Pesce, with Pesce being high unlikely, unless you make a VERY attractive offer... such as Marner for Pesce..

Yeah, I agree. I'm not at all buying Pesce is available. Just playing devils advocate

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Can you provide some reference for this?

My understanding is that the only way that we have full access to Horton's full AAV in our LTIR pool would be if we had no actual cap space - As soon as you try to use that LTIR pool on a player whose AAV ($6.25M) is higher than what's available in the LTIR pool (Max. $5.3M from Horton) you're exceeding the salary cap. If you're $950K below the hard cap, then Horton's contribution to the LTIR pool would be only $4.35M ($5.3M - $950K), not the entire $5.3M of his AAV.

LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

This is my understanding as well and people forget you need a reserve for performance bonuses.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I love AJ but I'll drive him to the airport.

Ennis coming back and Moore called up.

Giddy.

The tweet says Leafs are interested in Pesce. It doesn't say anything about what the Canes want. I'd guess they don't want to move Pesce.

The "+" is the holdup. The "+" on top of AJ would have to be something fairly substantial if Pesce is involved I'd guess.

Edit - Just noticed the original post is from February. Yikes.

 

[Fogelhund]

This is my understanding as well and people forget you need a reserve for performance bonuses.

What is the actual risk of our guys hitting performance bonuses though? It's going to be guys on their first contracts, who might make the All star game, or rookie of the year, etc.... Right now, CapFriendly has our potential Performance Bonuses at ZERO.

You look through our non-roster guys, and you see that Bracco's potential bonuses are $82,500. Liljegren has $400,000... there are others too... here are the hurdles..


http://users.jyu.fi/~olalpeka/NHL/ELC

Performance bonuses are listed there... The reality that one of our guys hits those bonus levels is a number approaching zero.

 

[Mess]

I don't understand why you're treating this as if the only way to use Horton's LTIR was to sign Marleau.

I'm not that was only likely the plan when they signed Marleau originally.

Now they need that extra space above the cap ceiling because of the escalating cap cost of JT, AM and soon MM of recent signings.

 

[IBeL34f]

I'm not that was only likely the plan when they signed Marleau originally.

Now they need that extra space above the cap ceiling because of the escalating cap cost of JT, AM and soon MM of recent signings.

Marleau ($6.25M) never has been, and never was going to be the LTIR relief for Horton ($5.3M).

It wasn't the plan when they signed him, Lou just made a gamble that couldn't pay off once Dubas tried to improve our team beyond just re-signing the RFAs.

 

[Mess]

I'm not that was only likely the plan when they signed Marleau originally.

Now they need that extra space above the cap ceiling because of the escalating cap cost of JT, AM and soon MM of recent signings.

While Mitch, Willy and Auston were on thier ELC there wasn't any need for Horton's LTIR to come into play with Marleau signing, only a precaution/backup plan in year 3 when all 3 kids contracts were up then they could essentially push all but $950k of Marleau above the hard cap ceiling by using the Horton LTIR reimbursement extra space.

 

[IBeL34f]

While Mitch, Willy and Auston were on thier ELC there wasn't any need for Horton's LTIR to come into play with Marleau signing, only a precaution/backup plan in year 3 when all 3 kids contracts were up then they could essentially push all but $950k of Marleau above the hard cap ceiling by using the Horton LTIR reimbursement extra space.

Mess. This is not how LTIR works. Horton's LTIR pool could not be used on Marleau.

LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Horton's being on LTIR does not increase our cap by $5.3M unless we're already spending all the way up to the cap - Any cap space we have under the hard cap is subtracted from the LTIR pool.

$950K in cap space + Horton on LTIR = $4.35M LTIR pool.

Under no circumstances were we going to get relief on Marleau's contract ($6.25M) through Horton's ($5.3M - Available Cap Space) LTIR status.

Why do you keep ignoring this?

 

[IPS]

Mess. This is not how LTIR works. Horton's LTIR pool could not be used on Marleau.

LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Horton's being on LTIR does not increase our cap by $5.3M unless we're already spending all the way up to the cap - Any cap space we have under the hard cap is subtracted from the LTIR pool.

$950K in cap space + Horton on LTIR = $4.35M LTIR pool.

Under no circumstances were we going to get relief on Marleau's contract ($6.25M) through Horton's ($5.3M - Available Cap Space) LTIR status.

Why do you keep ignoring this?

Because blatant dishonesty makes for some engaging dialogue I guess?

 

[inthe6ix]

Is Nylander, Matthews, Marner, and Tavares available?

If we are talking Mango, Brown, Kap, Moore,and Kadri then are we getting their best 2 defensemen?

nylander for hamilton ftw

 

[hfman]

THE TORONTO RAPTORS HAVE ENDED THE GOLDEN STATE DYNASTY

 

[Kiwi]

Nylander at least should be available.

Everybody should be, different price points obviously but nobody's untradeable