Proposal: (Leafs/Hawks) Gus for Kap

[Hawkaholic]

We have better LHD than Gus we can put on the right side if that was an option with Babcock. Other than Hainsey for whatever reason, it's not going to happen for more than a handful of games covering an injury.

Which LHD outside of Reilly is better than Gus?

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don't see it happening.
No way Chicago is moving a defender who just hit 60 points for a sub 50 point winger.

 

[Slyfox]

Which LHD outside of Reilly is better than Gus?

Muzzin

 

[Hawkaholic]

nope, I'm actually capable of saying what I mean, unlike some apparently.

But incapable of having anything of value to add to a conversation.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Muzzin

You mean the guy with almost half as many points as Gus? He isn't some messiah defensive player to make up for that gap.

 

[Slyfox]

You mean the guy with almost half as many points as Gus? He isn't some messiah defensive player to make up for that gap.

So you judge defenceman on points alone?

 

[Morgs]

Right, and Gardiner and Hainsey won't be back, probably. So Dermott can continue to paly RD and Gus can play LD and be an improvement on Gardiner for 1/3 of the cost.

Lol he wouldn't be an improvement on Gards. Idc how many points he got.

Which LHD outside of Reilly is better than Gus?

I legit would only take him over Hainsey. Not better than Rielly or Muzzin, and I'm not convinced he's so much better than Dermott that we'd give up Kap for him.

Just isn't an organizational need. If you want Kap, the basis has to be one of Murphy/Boqvist/Jokiharju.

 

[Hawkaholic]

So you judge defenceman on points alone?

Did you miss the part where I said "his defensive play isn't that much better to make up that gap"

 

[Hawkaholic]

Lol he wouldn't be an improvement on Gards. Idc how many points he got.



I legit would only take him over Hainsey. Not better than Rielly or Muzzin, and I'm not convinced he's so much better than Dermott that we'd give up Kap for him.

Just isn't an organizational need. If you want Kap, the basis has to be one of Murphy/Boqvist/Jokiharju.

He absolutely would be an improvement over Gardiner. He's as good/bad defensively, and better offensively. And he is also much better than Dermott.

I get if they don't want Gus because he may be a bit redundant, but he is better than most of the Leafs D outside of Rielly and I could see an argument for Muzzin, but that's it.

 

[Morgs]

He absolutely would be an improvement over Gardiner. He's as good/bad defensively, and better offensively. And he is also much better than Dermott.

I get if they don't want Gus because he may be a bit redundant, but he is better than most of the Leafs D outside of Rielly and I could see an argument for Muzzin, but that's it.

I mean, sure Gus had a great season, but it was based on points, and an ability to drive xG/CF. It was good, but I do think the points might not have a chance of returning, and he was baaaad defensively.

Looking at RAPM.xGF/60, the 4 defenseman we're talking about (Gus/Gards/Derms/Muzzy) rank as follows (dash for tiers):
1. Gardiner
--
2. Gus
3. Muzzin
--
4. Dermott

Defensively (RAPM.xGA/60) they rank:
1. Gardiner
2. Dermott
3. Muzzin
--
--
4. Gus

So yeah:

1. Rielly
2. Gardiner
3. Muzzin
4. Gus
5. Dermott

But really all of Rielly/Gards/Muzzin/Gus had top-25 LD seasons.

 

[Slyfox]

Did you miss the part where I said "his defensive play isn't that much better to make up that gap"

Ok, if hes as good as you say he is. Why is a team like Chicago who struggled defensively getting rid of him?

 

[LDF]

Ok, if hes as good as you say he is. Why is a team like Chicago who struggled defensively getting rid of him?

a team will need to help a request for missing pieces that is more needed at the time.

 

[Slyfox]

a team will need to help a request for missing pieces that is more needed at the time.

What is more, needed for Chicago than good defenseman?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Nope. If we're trading Kap (which is unlikely on its own) it would have to be for a similar age top-4 RHD with us potentially adding.

If it's Chicago for example, it will take one of Boqvist/Jokiharju/Murphy. Again, obviously not straight up as they all have very different values, but we really have no organizational need for anything else, and even less reason to move Kap.

Wild offersheet Kap at $4m. What does Toronto do?

 

[LDF]

What is more, needed for Chicago than good defenseman?

for me, it would be to start replenishing the system with players at other position with the idea they will be able to play and / or slide over to take a bigger responsibility for those secondary positions.

every player has a expiration date, need to keep an eye on that and remember it for the future of the success of an org.

 

[Morgs]

Wild offersheet Kap at $4m. What does Toronto do?

Cry.

 

[LDF]

Cry.

 

[Team Cozens]

Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Sandin

LD is an organizational strength.

Gardiner is another LHD and with Sandin progressing so well, I’m still baffled why RHD wasn’t acquired. Montour you’ve got to figure would have really stabilized the D.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Ok, if hes as good as you say he is. Why is a team like Chicago who struggled defensively getting rid of him?

Getting rid of him? Most Hawk fans don't want to trade him, and this stemmed from me saying that I don't think Gus will get you Kapanen, on the Hawks board.

Main reason there is discussion about moving him is because we have Boqvist, Mitchell, Joker and Beaudin, (along with possibly Byram) on the way really soon.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I mean, sure Gus had a great season, but it was based on points, and an ability to drive xG/CF. It was good, but I do think the points might not have a chance of returning, and he was baaaad defensively.

Looking at RAPM.xGF/60, the 4 defenseman we're talking about (Gus/Gards/Derms/Muzzy) rank as follows (dash for tiers):
1. Gardiner
--
2. Gus
3. Muzzin
--
4. Dermott

Defensively (RAPM.xGA/60) they rank:
1. Gardiner
2. Dermott
3. Muzzin
--
--
4. Gus
View attachment 217151

View attachment 217153

So yeah:

1. Rielly
2. Gardiner
3. Muzzin
4. Gus
5. Dermott

But really all of Rielly/Gards/Muzzin/Gus had top-25 LD seasons.

Yes, let's compare a guy who played on a bottom feeder team to players that played on a top 5 team with stats like that. Completely fair.

 

[Hawkaholic]

What is more, needed for Chicago than good defenseman?

Good defensive forwards and consistent goaltending.

 

[Morgs]

Yes, let's compare a guy who played on a bottom feeder team to players that played on a top 5 team with stats like that. Completely fair.

RAPM takes that into account.

 

[Hawkaholic]

RAPM takes that into account.

I'm not convinced it tells the whole story. Stats can be misleading a lot. I remember when David Rundblad was our best Dman based off of advanced stats...lol

 

[u2wojo]

Comparing Gardiner to Gus is absurd in this context. The whole purpose of this trade would be for a team about to be extremely cap strapped to convert a strength (forward depth) into a dirt cheap asset to shore up an area they need to find an answer. Gusfason may not be the perfect answer for the Leafs, but his salary of 1.2 is. Gardiner in terms of being of the Leafs next season can not be a serious option without a massive cap move (well unless he wants to stay a Leaf for half or more like a third of his current salary).