zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
Why haven’t mods locked this stupid thread yet? It’s just a pissing contest now.
Both teams decline. Let’s lock this and move on.
no. one team declines, laughing. one team accepts, laughing.
Why haven’t mods locked this stupid thread yet? It’s just a pissing contest now.
Both teams decline. Let’s lock this and move on.
Stats are regressed per game. The more specific metric based stats are regressed on ice time (TOI) . The error of a regression when comparing stats for both players, when ice time isn’t equal, is high. That means the argument is not exactly valid.
If you regress for equal TOI or a /60, /45, /30 basis, you can 0 out the error based on the difference for TOI. Based on equal TOI, Laine is the better player because he does more on the ice.
Does that make more sense? Sorry if it makes you more confused or isn’t well thought out.
To simplify I’ll give it an example. Raw stats (goals/assists/PIM/hits/blocks) are only a good argument for a 5-10% difference in player TOI/G |TOI/GP | GP/60. So if Matthews plays 82 games at 20min a game and Laine plays 80 games at 19:50... the error favors Matthews, but not by much. So the argument for raw stats like Goals and Assists are a valid argument.**In this example, Matthews plays approximately 120/140 some more minutes in the season. That means he has that much more time for goals, assists, takeaways, blocks etc. that’s why the argument isn’t valid for a lot of TOI difference for a raw stat argument.**
Total TOI/60/GP is your base. It’s like addition with fractions. Make sure your denominator (or base- the TOI/60/GP) are he same or for the case of hockey, within an acceptable margin (5-10% for each player).
You know what mean? Sorry, again, if I confused you. If you make the G/60 A/60 and stuff like that equal to the TOI/GP/60... Laine is better, than Matthews, in more facets of the game that you think.
Enough with the imaginary victim complex, that shtick is getting old.
remember, hfboards, it's leafs fans who are the biased homers around here.
Philly does this all day every day and runs away laughing.
It is if you think Matthews is worth Patrick and Provorov.
Laine is better. I’d work on a deal surrounding that because the flyers have players similar to Matthews talent level or even better...
If leaf fans ever want to know why they are all tarnished with the same brush, this thread is the perfect evidence.
Just a massive embarrassment all round
He's worth much more than that, obviously.
No team in the league would trade a 21 year old 1D and a 19 year old 1/2C for Matthews. Keep dreaming. Your evaluation of his value is flawed especially as it pertains to Philly.
Hockey reference is a cool site. Good for stats and metrics, however, please don’t say that I am wrong when you contradict yourself in your argument... please.heh. you sure sound like you know what you're talking about and aren't just spouting out a bunch of nonsense you don't understand.
Matthews: 144gms, ES 15:30 (A- qoc), 2.49p60, 2.34p160, 51.3cf% (+0.7), 52.6xgf% (+2.2) / PP 2:19, 6.29p60, 4.49p160 / PK 0:01
Laine: 155gms, ES 14:16 (B qoc), 2.18p60, 1.76p160, 48.8cf% (-2.8), 47.6xgf% (-5.9) / PP 2:53, 5.62p60, 4.66p160 / PK 0:01
Those stats there account for every factor you just mentioned.
And it's an absolute wipe out. These aren't comparable players.
Lmao.
Every single team falls over themselves to trade that for Matthews, and giggles uncontrollably while doing it.
I don't recall Matthews (or any other Leaf) facing the Caps in the playoffs.
I think they will be. G is finally back, Couts is breaking out (fingers crossed itnisnt a fluke).wow.
Flyers should be a hell of a team this year then.
Hockey reference is a cool site. Good for stats and metrics, however, please don’t say that I am wrong when you contradict yourself in your argument... please.
ES is a 2.2E on QOC... if you want me to do the math in another post I will. It’s not pretty, but 2+ E means any argument using stats is automatically invalid. Look up the 2 Error rule for stats.
The only stat you put up which was standardized was the P/60. Sorry buddy, that not standardized for TOI/60. It takes ATOI/60. It’s not equalized, it’s standardized.
Gf%, CF% and the relative arguments for CF and fenwick is and error in and of itselft. They do mean something, but you will see correlation differences in QOC and QOL for each metric.
Copy and pasting stuff form Hockey reference doesn’t prove your argument. Just shows you don’t really know what you’re talkig about. Those stats are respective to their players, not equalized.
Like I said... TOI/GP/60 needs to be the denominator or equal. If the difference isn’t marginal (5-10%)... the error in output is more than 2 for the regression.
Corsi/60, FF/60–> their relative arguments are, at that point, standardized. To compare them, you need to have
(FF/TOI/GP/60~FF*/ATOI/GP/60)as you ES argument.
Your PP argument is the exact same. So...
(FF/TOI/GP/60~FF*/ATOI/GP/60)ES
{(FF/TOI/GP/60~FF*/ATOI/GP/60)PP}
(CF/TOI/GP/60~CF*/ATOI/GP/60)ES
(CF/TOI/GP/60~CF*/ATOI/GP/60)PP
- this mathematical derivation is a matrix—> that’s what the curly brackets are for.
- the * means a relative argument.
Then you do the same for Matthews and that gives you the CF and the relCF argument on an equalized platform.
What you posted is not really what I posted about and doesn’t really account for anything I said.
This pretty much sums up the leafs image on this board. Neither team would do this deal, and while Flyers fans acknowledge that Matthews is a great player, Leafs fans knock on the other side of the deal. This is why the board at large doesn’t like most leafs fans, and i feel bad for the decent TML fans on here who are lumped into the same category because of them.
This pretty much sums up the leafs image on this board. Neither team would do this deal, and while Flyers fans acknowledge that Matthews is a great player, Leafs fans knock on the other side of the deal. This is why the board at large doesn’t like most leafs fans, and i feel bad for the decent TML fans on here who are lumped into the same category because of them.
you literally just made a post about how Matthews is the most overvalued player in the leagueAgreed. There’s about 15 of them that make conversation unbearable. It’s a shame and reflects negatively on the fan base as a hole.
I think they will be. G is finally back, Couts is breaking out (fingers crossed itnisnt a fluke).
you literally just made a post about how Matthews is the most overvalued player in the league
He is. Anything else ???
do you not realize that you are criticizing Leafs fans for not valuing the Flyers players enough for your liking, while at the same time posting about how Matthews is the most overvalued player in the league?He is. Anything else ???