News Article: Leafs, Flames come together to help out CWHL players.

[GrunbeldDragonKnight]

There was some pretty good physicality in the game and thats a pretty good constant when it comes to US verse Canada. There were also some scrums, the rivalry is pretty intense.

Marketing falls on more than just the league, it falls a lot on media outlets not giving near enough screen time to the Women's games in general. I understand that is a tough ask as well because they don't provide the financial capital but it would not hurt for TSN to advertise the game they are playing on their broadcast a little more.

In reference to the bolded, that is such a backwards way to think. Mens hockey may not have started as a billion dollar business, you are right.; however men always had the better opportunity to pursue things such as athletics as a profession. Have you ever though the Women's game is lagging behind because of institutionalized oppression that has persisted for generations? You don't need to watch the games, but saying "what is their excuse" is just so backwards in so many ways...

Rolls eyes. It isn't institutional oppression, whatever that means. It is the free market that dictates whether men or women get paid in sports, and both men and women generally prefer to watch the best on best in sports. Please keep the social justice creepiness to yourself. You don't get to decide what viewpoints are forward or backward. We have freedom of thought.

 

[robertmac43]

Rolls eyes. It isn't institutional oppression, whatever that means. It is the free market that dictates whether men or women get paid in sports, and both men and women generally prefer to watch the best on best in sports. Please keep the social justice creepiness to yourself. You don't get to decide what viewpoints are forward or backward. We have freedom of thought.

I mean now a days, sure. But when professional sports were being created and started growing as was alluded to in the post, women were oppressed. Society as a whole was extremely unequal in the O6 era and after the first expansion. Now a days it's different but not recognizing men have had an easier go in creating and growing leagues across pro sports because of their privilege is just further feeding the problem.

 

[The Apologist]

There was some pretty good physicality in the game and thats a pretty good constant when it comes to US verse Canada. There were also some scrums, the rivalry is pretty intense.

Marketing falls on more than just the league, it falls a lot on media outlets not giving near enough screen time to the Women's games in general. I understand that is a tough ask as well because they don't provide the financial capital but it would not hurt for TSN to advertise the game they are playing on their broadcast a little more.

In reference to the bolded, that is such a backwards way to think. Mens hockey may not have started as a billion dollar business, you are right.; however men always had the better opportunity to pursue things such as athletics as a profession. Have you ever though the Women's game is lagging behind because of institutionalized oppression that has persisted for generations? You don't need to watch the games, but saying "what is their excuse" is just so backwards in so many ways...

You understand that TSN isnt a charity right? If the interest was there the games would be shown. The interest isnt there.
In regards to your last paragraph I would agree if this were 1980 and the game was new to North America. Its not. Its 2019. Women have had 40 years to build the game in a society that has been bending over backward to show how 'progressive' it is.
Despite this, nobody has been able to generate interest. Nobody has been anle to keep the fans.
Professional sport is not a charity.

 

[robertmac43]

You understand that TSN isnt a charity right? If the interest was there the games would be shown. The interest isnt there.
In regards to your last paragraph I would agree if this were 1980 and the game was new to North America. Its not. Its 2019. Women have had 40 years to build the game in a society that has been bending over backward to show how 'progressive' it is.
Despite this, nobody has been able to generate interest. Nobody has been anle to keep the fans.
Professional sport is not a charity.

I'll be the first to agree that it's not a charity and I would also side with those who don't think women should get paid as much as men in pro-sports; it just doesn't make sense.

Yeah it has not taken off as much as them Men's game and likely never will; i just think it never got a fair shot in the over-saturated sports market, doesn't mean it there is no place for it though.

 

[The Apologist]

I'll be the first to agree that it's not a charity and I would also side with those who don't think women should get paid as much as men in pro-sports; it just doesn't make sense.

Yeah it has not taken off as much as them Men's game and likely never will; i just think it never got a fair shot in the over-saturated sports market, doesn't mean it there is no place for it though.

There may be a niche for it, but they may need to make changes, they may need to market the hell out of it. At the end of the day though THEY need to, not the NHL, not TSN, the whatever they end up calling themselves league.

Thats all im saying.

 

[robertmac43]

There may be a niche for it, but they may need to make changes, they may need to market the hell out of it. At the end of the day though THEY need to, not the NHL, not TSN, the whatever they end up calling themselves league.

Thats all im saying.

Yeah i get it, don't agree with all of it but hey let's call it here. :p

 

[OppositeLocK]

There may be a niche for it, but they may need to make changes, they may need to market the hell out of it. At the end of the day though THEY need to, not the NHL, not TSN, the whatever they end up calling themselves league.

Thats all im saying.

Women's hockey will never be a thing. You can market it all you want, nobody cares. Anyone who does, is for the most part pretending, or is some loony leftist progressive.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Well, I mean, we hired Wickenheiser (Calgary resident) so, I'm not surprised. At the end of the day, women have to support womens sports, that's the only way it'll ever become profitable. In the last 50 years, mens hockey has gone from Phil Esposito working all summer in a steel mill, to Marner, Rantanen, Tkachuk expecting $10,000,000 at 21-22 years old.

Hopefully Canada can continue to be on the fore-front of the growth of women's sports.

and make it past the round of 16 in the next world cup.

 

[96]

Kudo's to the Leafs and Flames, and doing what's right.

It's a shame that other than every 4 years, women's hockey doesn't receive nearly a wide enough national platform. It's some damn good hockey, and the rivalries are every bit as passionate and bitter as the men's.

Glad the Leafs and Flames did this, and hopefully we see a platform emerge for more mainstream women's hockey. I know I'd be watching......

Bro. Without reading the rest of the thread... u14 year olds from alberta regularly destroy the Canadian women’s national ice hockey team...

Same goes for all women’s sports though tbh, like Dallas u15 smoking the US women’s soccer team (yea the same team all over the news today lol). Remember that game where DIon Phaneufs brother was playing against the Women’s team, who were upset they were being dominated by children, they literally tried fighting him. Imagine if a grown man tried fighting a woman during a game, let alone a 15 year old girl.

 

[Craig Button]

The women there won the passing accuracy and nearly won the fastest skater

I’d say they are part of the best.


What an awful post. You need to be ashamed. Do some soul searching.

Women are a “sideshow” and a “circus”

jfc dude

No.
He never said that. You have poor reading comprehension. Or are you choosing to misunderstand.

 

[Cotton]

Posting from your moms basement?

You are a young boy is my guess or someone brought up with out respect for women.

Not worth my time and you are sexist.

Well you certainly went straight to personal attacks and insults didn't you.

Was it difficult typing all that with a balaclava on? lol.

 

[deletethis]

I still don't get how everyone regardless of ideological grounds didn't have a cynical response to the Wickenheiser hiring. The Leafs hired someone who would be otherwise occupied with more important things (medical school, her family in Calgary). To think of the other female candidates for such a position who would have been able to devote full time to such a position. It was a genius move if your goal is to keep women out of the front office. She'll be in Toronto for photo ops for a few days out of the year and all is well.

I'll be the first to agree that it's not a charity and I would also side with those who don't think women should get paid as much as men in pro-sports; it just doesn't make sense.

To clarify, I'd assume you mean that you're relating the revenue generation of professional (male) sports being the reason that those particular athletes should be paid more. But if by some happenstance, regardless of a physical superiority argument, there is a women's professional sport that generated more revenue than its men's counterpart then absolutely the women athletes should be paid more in that case. Few bat an eye, nor should they, that the top 10 women's tennis pros make way more money than many male pros who'd beat them handily face to face. That happens because there is a paying audience for women's tennis.

So... it isn't an impossibility that somehow a modest audience couldn't be carved out for professional women's hockey. There are millions of people paying admission around the world to pro sports that aren't the highest level. But not through subsidy for goodness sake.

 

[robertmac43]

To clarify, I'd assume you mean that you're relating the revenue generation of professional (male) sports being the reason that those particular athletes should be paid more. But if by some happenstance, regardless of a physical superiority argument, there is a women's professional sport that generated more revenue than its men's counterpart then absolutely the women athletes should be paid more in that case

100%. For instance the Women's Soccer team in the United States should make more than the men's at this point because they are bringing in more revenue and actually winning.

 

[deletethis]

Some ideas:

1. Co-branding with existing NHL teams.
2. Double header games with professional teams.
3. Mixed league with weight restrictions of the male participants. 3 of each sex at all times on the ice. Probably all of the goalies will be female.
4. International league with country branding instead of city branding using US and Canadian players to fortify other countries' lineups.
5. Place teams in Canadian centers lacking any professional/CHL hockey.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

100%. For instance the Women's Soccer team in the United States should make more than the men's at this point because they are bringing in more revenue and actually winning.

Agreed but...here is the problem/question...FIFA makes an enormous amount of money that it then spends on doling out to successful countries when it comes to winning competitions...so if you look at FIFA's intake (I have not researched this in depth so I won't provide exact numbers) even if the US men's team isn't "as good" as the womens team (a lot easier to do seeing as the rest of the world is still catching up on the women's side) FIFA has more money to dole out to the "successful" men's teams as such yes you could argue that the US soccer program should give a larger percentage of the revenue earned by the women's team winning to them...but it will still be peanuts when placed beside what the mens team earns by being semi-finalists (or some other paid finish) in the CONCACAF region...it has to directly co-relate to what the women bring in...I disagree they should see a dime of profit that is made by the men's team and vice versa...nobody owes these players anything aside from a cut of the profits that THEIR team earns...
I mean let's be honest here Megan Rapinoe (can't stand her) is probably one of the best female players on the planet...should she come even remotely close to say Ronaldo or Messi in terms of earnings...just because she is one of the best women? when the women's game can bring in a similar amount of money to the men's game this conversation can be had...not until because otherwise you are subsidizing a product that in the public's eyes is lacking in some way

 

[Its not your fault]

There was some pretty good physicality in the game and thats a pretty good constant when it comes to US verse Canada. There were also some scrums, the rivalry is pretty intense.

Marketing falls on more than just the league, it falls a lot on media outlets not giving near enough screen time to the Women's games in general. I understand that is a tough ask as well because they don't provide the financial capital but it would not hurt for TSN to advertise the game they are playing on their broadcast a little more.

In reference to the bolded, that is such a backwards way to think. Mens hockey may not have started as a billion dollar business, you are right.; however men always had the better opportunity to pursue things such as athletics as a profession. Have you ever though the Women's game is lagging behind because of institutionalized oppression that has persisted for generations? You don't need to watch the games, but saying "what is their excuse" is just so backwards in so many ways...

You don't watch roller derby. If you like physicalality you should start a proposition to start a new men's league as this one is not going to be half as physical as it once was in just a few more years. People don't like violence on tv.

 

[robertmac43]

Agreed but...here is the problem/question...FIFA makes an enormous amount of money that it then spends on doling out to successful countries when it comes to winning competitions...so if you look at FIFA's intake (I have not researched this in depth so I won't provide exact numbers) even if the US men's team isn't "as good" as the womens team (a lot easier to do seeing as the rest of the world is still catching up on the women's side) FIFA has more money to dole out to the "successful" men's teams as such yes you could argue that the US soccer program should give a larger percentage of the revenue earned by the women's team winning to them...but it will still be peanuts when placed beside what the mens team earns by being semi-finalists (or some other paid finish) in the CONCACAF region...it has to directly co-relate to what the women bring in...I disagree they should see a dime of profit that is made by the men's team and vice versa...nobody owes these players anything aside from a cut of the profits that THEIR team earns...
I mean let's be honest here Megan Rapinoe (can't stand her) is probably one of the best female players on the planet...should she come even remotely close to say Ronaldo or Messi in terms of earnings...just because she is one of the best women? when the women's game can bring in a similar amount of money to the men's game this conversation can be had...not until because otherwise you are subsidizing a product that in the public's eyes is lacking in some way

This has nothing to do with FIFA revenue or match bonuses, just US Soccer. The US team was viewed more this year in the US and in 2015 when they won the WC, that finals was the most watched soccer game in the US for the year. The Gold Cup in comparison had far less viewers and far more empty stadiums when the US was playing. The Womens team has brought in more marketing and ticket sales as well, yet within the US pay scheme the Women get less pay, not even equal pay.

As for the bolded this is no where near what I'm saying. Messi and Ronaldo should make far and away more money than Rapinoe. The question should be, should Rapinoe get the same pay as Jozy Altidore from US soccer?

 

[JayfromNB1219]

This has nothing to do with FIFA revenue or match bonuses, just US Soccer. The US team was viewed more this year in the US and in 2015 when they won the WC, that finals was the most watched soccer game in the US for the year. The Gold Cup in comparison had far less viewers and far more empty stadiums when the US was playing. The Womens team has brought in more marketing and ticket sales as well, yet within the US pay scheme the Women get less pay, not even equal pay.

As for the bolded this is no where near what I'm saying. Messi and Ronaldo should make far and away more money than Rapinoe. The question should be, should Rapinoe get the same pay as Jozy Altidore from US soccer?

For US soccer right now...yes...although I think she should probably out earn him slightly (purely from US soccer) based on the eyes on the women's team vs the mens team...mind you as the men's team comes back to prominence (which they are on their way to doing) you'd see it change again...I feel like it should be a sliding scale and not a set in stone number...that's just me though

 

[robertmac43]

For US soccer right now...yes...although I think she should probably out earn him slightly (purely from US soccer) based on the eyes on the women's team vs the mens team...mind you as the men's team comes back to prominence (which they are on their way to doing) you'd see it change again...I feel like it should be a sliding scale and not a set in stone number...that's just me though

My one counter would be why does it need to be a sliding scale? The women have proven that they will being in numbers so why not just have them both getting the same US bonuses, it's not like they are very to begin with (for soccer standards) and its not as though US soccer is struggling financially.

I'm also not fully convinced the Men's team is "on their way back to prominence". If they make the World Cup that is just them meeting expectations, they have a long way to go before they are challenging for the round of 16 in a WC.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

My one counter would be why does it need to be a sliding scale? The women have proven that they will being in numbers so why not just have them both getting the same US bonuses, it's not like they are very to begin with (for soccer standards) and its not as though US soccer is struggling financially.

I'm also not fully convinced the Men's team is "on their way back to prominence". If they make the World Cup that is just them meeting expectations, they have a long way to go before they are challenging for the round of 16 in a WC.

I hear you and i said a sliding scale because the US dominance of Women's soccer is getting damn close to disappearing...and once the Americans aren't winning all the time I don't know whether the U.S would fully support a middling American women's team and as the men get better more and more eyes will go to them thus more money earned by them (if support for the women's team drops when they aren't the best in the world anymore do they still deserve that huge pay when eyes leave? same as the men, if they aren't winning and people aren't watching then they shouldn't make as much) that's why I said sliding scale...to account for popularity increases or decreases which affect revenue brought in for the FA...
here's hoping that makes sense to you, it does to me lol

 

[robertmac43]

I hear you and i said a sliding scale because the US dominance of Women's soccer is getting damn close to disappearing...and once the Americans aren't winning all the time I don't know whether the U.S would fully support a middling American women's team and as the men get better more and more eyes will go to them thus more money earned by them (if support for the women's team drops when they aren't the best in the world anymore do they still deserve that huge pay when eyes leave? same as the men, if they aren't winning and people aren't watching then they shouldn't make as much) that's why I said sliding scale...to account for popularity increases or decreases which affect revenue brought in for the FA...

I get what you are saying from a financial perspective, I don't however think the women's team will be middling any time soon. The Euro teams are catching up but this is still the US's tournament to lose, they are in a tier of their own and far from middling.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I get what you are saying from a financial perspective, I don't however think the women's team will be middling any time soon. The Euro teams are catching up but this is still the US's tournament to lose, they are in a tier of their own and far from middling.

As of right now absolutely I guess I am looking at this from a futuristic perspective when the women's game has as much parity as the men's game, because once the rule is in it'll be hell to change when the teams fortunes change...know what I mean?

 

[robertmac43]

As of right now absolutely I guess I am looking at this from a futuristic perspective when the women's game has as much parity as the men's game, because once the rule is in it'll be hell to change when the teams fortunes change...know what I mean?

I get what you are saying, but for now we don't know when that parity will come and if it will ever be so competitive that the US Women take a huge hit in world ranking. For now though they might as well make the pay equal

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I get what you are saying, but for now we don't know when that parity will come and if it will ever be so competitive that the US Women take a huge hit in world ranking. For now though they might as well make the pay equal

...I hear you and I am happy with that idea...with the knowledge to both the Men's and women's teams that they win they get paid they start stumbling and the FA reserves the right to change the payouts

 

[Voodoo Child]

...

Do people here really think that that women and their little tournament are bringing in more cash than the World Cup and FIFA?