All Encompassing Coaching Status Thread | TOR hire Paul McFarland as an Assistant Coach

[CarterD]

It's actually going ti be Eakins not Keefe

 

[PromisedLand]

Dubas has control over roster moves. Big difference between that, and being able to fire an employee who makes significantly more than you. I'd be surprised if any GM realistically has the power to unilaterally fire their head coach. That always goes to the board or owner. Generally, the board sides with the GM and/or president, or fires everyone. Two publically traded companies aren't going to let an employee who is owed 32 million be fired without it going to the board.

Yup in principle I see this point; but if leafs have another 1st round exit this season; and fail to get out of 2nd round next season (babcock's recent past playoff resume); then what do you do?

last few years player salaries weren't that high; starting this season with Tavares+Willy and then next season with Matthews, Marner+others.... expenditure side of things are gonna sky rocket; especially with the way the singing bonuses are structured for these player contracts

one way to rake in the moolah is playoff revenue; or seriously jack up ticket prices; don't see them doing the latter as the prices are already way too high; so if leafs cannot have sustained playoff success for long stretches it will be hard to justify having babcock as coach while player salaries have increased tremendously

 

[93LEAFS]

Well, I would say thats not a justifiable firing. If anything Bowman should have gone first.

My main point was GM's don't have the power to just fire a coach. Outside of a Lou in New Jersey type situation, very few executives wield that level of unilateral power. I don't think Lou had the power to fire Babs either. They are the people who can make the recommendation, and then it goes to either ownership or the managing board. Especially when you are talking about someone with as much cash owed as Babs.

 

[93LEAFS]

Yup in principle I see this point; but if leafs have another 1st round exit this season; and fail to get out of 2nd round next season (babcock's recent past playoff resume); then what do you do?

last few years player salaries weren't that high; starting this season with Tavares+Willy and then next season with Matthews, Marner+others.... expenditure side of things are gonna sky rocket; especially with the way the singing bonuses are structured for these player contracts

one way to rake in the moolah is playoff revenue; or seriously jack up ticket prices; don't see them doing the latter as the prices are already way too high; so if leafs cannot have sustained playoff success for long stretches it will be hard to justify having babcock as coach while player salaries have increased tremendously

I'm not saying Babcock can't be fired. He can be. What I am saying is, that it isn't just Dubas's call. He can recommend it, and it likely would happen. But, it could also turn against Dubas/Shanny due to the number of talented people they let leave the organization last year in this turnover.

 

[Whaleafs]

Especially when you are talking about someone with as much cash owed as Babs.

That's one of the few advantages we still have in the cap world, excess cash if a situation like this were to happen.

 

[JEI]

This. he can take his stretch pass to no one system to the kings.

Keefe is way too valuable to the leafs. Just throw money at Keefe and keep him with the marlies for development

Do we actually think that's DJ Smiths doing? That seems like a head coach move to me...that kind of hinges on the entire breakout/strategy doesn't it?

 

[KobeBean143]

I'm not saying Babcock can't be fired. He can be. What I am saying is, that it isn't just Dubas's call. He can recommend it, and it likely would happen. But, it could also turn against Dubas/Shanny due to the number of talented people they let leave the organization last year in this turnover.

My god you’re relentless.. are you like this when you’re right too?

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm not saying Babcock can't be fired. He can be. What I am saying is, that it isn't just Dubas's call. He can recommend it, and it likely would happen. But, it could also turn against Dubas/Shanny due to the number of talented people they let leave the organization last year in this turnover.

It already is an issue IMO. Asset management when it comes to picks and future wasn't handled in the right way by the leafs.

in terms of personnel that got laid off who were owed a lot of money; am not sure if there are any? was Lou owed a lot of money?
besides Lou who else was laid off that was owed money?

Hunter? some scouts that were fired?

thats not a lot of money IMO; especially since they jacked up the ticket prices; and all the merchandise revenue from matthews andmarner jerseys they raked in (and now Tavares).

 

[93LEAFS]

My god you’re relentless.. are you like this when you’re right too?

If you think someone below the board has the power to just fire an employee owed 32 million over the next 4 years you are reaching. Shannahan doesn't have that level of power. No one in the NHL does. That is all stuff that requires board or owner approval. Plus, I didn't respond to you, since you said you were done.

Where does it say Shanahan has full control. He got stuck with Nonis and Carlyle for a year because he didn't have the power to fire either until it went to Cope and the Rogers CEO, and they agreed.

 

[93LEAFS]

It already is an issue IMO. Asset management when it comes to picks and future wasn't handled in the right way by the leafs.

in terms of personnel that got laid off who were owed a lot of money; am not sure if there are any? was Lou owed a lot of money?
besides Lou who else was laid off that was owed money?

Hunter? some scouts that were fired?

thats not a lot of money IMO; especially since they jacked up the ticket prices; and all the merchandise revenue from matthews andmarner jerseys they raked in (and now Tavares).

It's not the money owed, its the fact well-respected people left.

 

[KobeBean143]

If you think someone below the board has the power to just fire an employee owed 32 million over the next 4 years you are reaching. Shannahan doesn't have that level of power. No one in the NHL does. That is all stuff that requires board or owner approval. Plus, I didn't respond to you, since you said you were done.

I do think shanny has that power. Everything suggests he has that power. He hasn’t abused so they have no reason to overrule regardless of money.

you are rentlentless, nothing wrong with that you believe what you believe. I was just kidding around man lighten up!

 

[93LEAFS]

I do think shanny has that power. Everything suggests he has that power. He hasn’t abused so they have no reason to overrule regardless of money.

you are rentlentless, nothing wrong with that you believe what you believe. I was just kidding around man lighten up!

I don't think anyone in any organization does. Remember, Shanny was forced to keep Carlyle and Nonis until the board agreed to can them.

The board will give Shanahan a large amount of leeway, but no corporation like Bell or Rogers would give someone the unilateral ability to fire an employee who is owed 32 million dollars. They probably side with Shanahan, but that is something that needs to be voted on by the board before it's approved. The Bell and Rogers CEO can't just get a phone call saying they fired an employee making that much.

 

[Northernguy10]

I believe after this season Babcock is owed 25 million not 32 ...4 years left x 6.25 =25

 

[KobeBean143]

I don't think anyone in any organization does. Remember, Shanny was forced to keep Carlyle and Nonis until the board agreed to can them.

The board will give Shanahan a large amount of leeway, but no corporation like Bell or Rogers would give someone the unilateral ability to fire an employee who is owed 32 million dollars. They probably side with Shanahan, but that is something that needs to be voted on by the board before it's approved. The Bell and Rogers CEO can't just get a phone call saying they fired an employee making that much.

Shanny kept them around to access the situation before he made any determinations. They didn’t force him to. Where’d you get that from?

Also he’s already made the larger portion of his money, I’m not sure on the exact numbers left but it’s not 32. And they hired him to make all hockey related decisions, if he calls them and says he’s firing babs it’s happening. If he thinks firing babs and bringing in someone else will create more playoff revenues then they gave him the power to do that.

You see it differently. That’s okay!!
Until there’s evidence to suggest they are undermining shannys calls then I continue to believe he’s in control. I cannot see him sticking around if they remove that power though.

 

[KobeBean143]

I believe after this season Babcock is owed 25 million not 32 ...4 years left x 6.25 =25

The first few years he was also paid a larger amount, 8ish or so I think.

 

[93LEAFS]

Shanny kept them around to access the situation before he made any determinations. They didn’t force him to. Where’d you get that from?

Also he’s already made the larger portion of his money, I’m not sure on the exact numbers left but it’s not 32. And they hired him to make all hockey related decisions, if he calls them and says he’s firing babs it’s happening. If he thinks firing babs and bringing in someone else will create more playoff revenues then they gave him the power to do that.

You see it differently. That’s okay!!
Until there’s evidence to suggest they are undermining shannys calls then I continue to believe he’s in control. I cannot see him sticking around if they remove that power though.

Babcock makes 6.25m USD a year. That's 8.36 a year, for the remaining 4 years. Where have you see Shanahan has full unilateral control that the board doesn't need to approve his decisions? What I've said is, any decision to fire Babs has to go to the board. He makes too much money for an underling to just make that decision without the board discussing it for two publically traded companies. Shanahan was told when hired he had to keep those guys for another year for evaluation.

They aren't going to interfere on the day to day. But, any decision of this magnitude has to be vetted by the board and go through the proper channels.

 

[Warden of the North]

My main point was GM's don't have the power to just fire a coach. Outside of a Lou in New Jersey type situation, very few executives wield that level of unilateral power. I don't think Lou had the power to fire Babs either. They are the people who can make the recommendation, and then it goes to either ownership or the managing board. Especially when you are talking about someone with as much cash owed as Babs.

Sorry, I wasnt able to fully explain myself.

What im saying is that, yes, Dubas would have to go to the board, but I don seet them saying "no" unless its a totally ridiculous and petty reason. Any circumstance that would require Dubas to go to them, they would likely say "youre the GM, do as you see fit. If this is what you think is best, go for it". That is happening until the summer of 2020 at least, I would expect, so thats another big chunk of change off his cash owed.

As for cash owed, its the figurative pocket change to them. Rogers alone paid Troy Tulowitzki 38 million dollars to go away this summer, with no chance of that being re-couped like would almost assuredly happen if another team hired Babs.

 

[KobeBean143]

Babcock makes 6.25m USD a year. That's 8.36 a year, for the remaining 4 years. Where have you see Shanahan has full unilateral control that the board doesn't need to approve his decisions? What I've said is, any decision to fire Babs has to go to the board. He makes too much money for an underling to just make that decision without the board discussing it for two publically traded companies. Shanahan was told when hired he had to keep those guys for another year for evaluation.

They aren't going to interfere on the day to day. But, any decision of this magnitude has to be vetted by the board and go through the proper channels.

Why would you talk about in Canadian when every salary and operation is in USD?? And I was talking about the way it was structured, he was paid more per year ealeier in his deal.

And shanny was hired with full autonomy, every interview he’s done and article written suggest he’s allowed to can the coach. He makes hockey related decisions. Can they overrule ya they can, but they gave him the job to make these calls. And if he tells them that’s the direction they’re going there’s nothing to suggests they will overrule that. Only your opinion.

 

[93LEAFS]

Sorry, I wasnt able to fully explain myself.

What im saying is that, yes, Dubas would have to go to the board, but I don seet them saying "no" unless its a totally ridiculous and petty reason. Any circumstance that would require Dubas to go to them, they would likely say "youre the GM, do as you see fit. If this is what you think is best, go for it". That is happening until the summer of 2020 at least, I would expect, so thats another big chunk of change off his cash owed.

As for cash owed, its the figurative pocket change to them. Rogers alone paid Troy Tulowitzki 38 million dollars to go away this summer, with no chance of that being re-couped like would almost assuredly happen if another team hired Babs.

I don't think Rogers has re-invested that money into the Jays. They ate it as a sunk cost. Aren't the Jays spending 44 million less this year, despite only eating about 19 million this year even when they factor in what they are paying Tulo?

 

[thewave]

Take Smith. TY

 

[HamiltonNHL]

As for cash owed, its the figurative pocket change to them. Rogers alone paid Troy Tulowitzki 38 million dollars to go away this summer

It still went to the board

 

[Warden of the North]

It still went to the board

Thats not the point.

 

[Loosie]

Do we get a 2nd or a 3rd round pick out of this, I can never remember how it works?

Not anymore. The year we signed Babcock and Lou was the last year for compensatory picks for staff.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Can't see Dubas being happy if his boy Keefe goes. Keefe does a great job with the Marlies, I could see him easily replacing Babcock in the future.

That means Babcock gets fired and that won't happen anytime soon

 

[Peasy]

I remember someone on TSN saying that they believed Babcock's contract was also front loaded in the first couple years. Which would make sense, money now is worth more than money tomorrow.