News Article: Leafs Analysis at Centre - Kadri,Bolland,Bozak

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Igy, Nov 1, 2013.

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  1. Igy

    Igy Registered User

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  2. sommervr

    sommervr Registered User

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    That is a good read
     
  3. DD03

    DD03 3D

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    People need to get off Bozak's back.
     
  4. AustonMitchWilly

    AustonMitchWilly Registered User

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    Good read but a little harsh. Im all for grabbing another C. But were doing well and lets love thzt right now.
     
  5. BillDerlago

    BillDerlago They did it Naylor

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    I know I'll probably get bashed for this but it's amazing to me how these nobody bloggers just totally disrespect a NHL player, calling him "terrible" and "awful", yet he obviously plays a role on this team or Carlyle wouldn't play him.

    Not only that, it's by some criteria the blogger "generally assumed" could accurately represent how awful Bozak is.

    I'm not saying Bozak fits the stereotypical #1C role, I would love to see Eric Staal or whomever between JVR and Kessel but that's not going to happen. If Kadri is able to keep this up maybe we've got our #1C I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  6. I think Bolland and Bozak bring pretty much the same things on the table. Bolland however is better defensively, but sucks on faceoffs.

    But I like Bolland's playoff experience and clutch plays.
     
  7. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Truce?

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    Bashing Bozak is PPP and TLN's shtick.

    How many times are they going to beat their visitors over the head with this vendetta? I've long since unfollowed them. They're obsessed with "I told you so" vindication.
     
  8. wulfio*

    wulfio* Guest

    What's even more amazing to me is people on this site source bloggers all the time, like the opinion of a basement dweller who can't skate means anything.
     
  9. Diatomic

    Diatomic Mitch Matthewlander

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    Brilliant Article. Its amazing how people can keep their eyes closed when the truth in literally right in front of them. Open your eyes people.
     
  10. 7even

    7even Resident **** poster

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    Mike Kostka. Korbinian Holzer.

    I too refuse to ever disagree with authority.
     
  11. BillDerlago

    BillDerlago They did it Naylor

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    Of course it's brilliant (with a capital B) and the truth when it coincides with the agenda you've been pushing.

    Bozak should be in the ECHL!!!! I mean, it's ridiculous.
     
  12. BillDerlago

    BillDerlago They did it Naylor

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    You're going to compare playing these guys as #6D with playing Bozak on the top line? Yes, RC is incompetent and a complete failure as judge of NHL talent.
     
  13. Diatomic

    Diatomic Mitch Matthewlander

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    Bozak should be in the NHL just not in the 1st line. Try reading the article and you'll understand why.
     
  14. ErnieLeafs

    ErnieLeafs Registered User

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    He should play on someone else's third line.
     
  15. pooleboy

    pooleboy Registered User

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    bozak isn't a top 6 c? idk why people are even debating this fact lmao
     
  16. 7even

    7even Resident **** poster

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    No, I'm not. Just pointing out that assuming a player is being played in a role because he's the best player for that role isn't always correct. See: Holzer on the top pairing, Gardiner in the AHL, Bozak on the PP, etc. etc.

    Carlyle's done a great job with our PK, but half of his roster decisions are...a little more interesting than they should be.

    Just to expand on this, it appears NHL.com does: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=689400&navid=DL|NHL|home

    Read the Leafs blurb. Steve Burtch's article on PPP is linked.
     
  17. ACC1224

    ACC1224 Steelers 6-2-1 @ Jacksonville

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    How is a blog a News Article? I don't see how their opinion is any more valid than someone posting here.
     
  18. wulfio*

    wulfio* Guest

    oh you're assuming I have respect for any media outlet. cute.
     
  19. Another Bozak thread. Just what the doctor ordered. :yo:
     
  20. 7even

    7even Resident **** poster

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    Well now I'm assuming you're 12.
     
  21. wulfio*

    wulfio* Guest

    You're a very presumptuous fellow. that's nice.
     
  22. GrizzLeaf

    GrizzLeaf Registered Bear

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    Keep calm, Corsi's wrong.... again :)
     
  23. 7even

    7even Resident **** poster

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    I'm downing a bottle of presumptions and you're knocking back shots of condescension. We all have our vices :)
     
  24. Grant

    Grant LL Genius

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    So many things that made me go :facepalm: I will try and point them all out ;)

    First off, SURPRISE!!! An article that set out to make Bozak look bad succeeded (stat picking is pretty easy isn't it).

    Next his selection of centers used in my opinion is off. He went after choosing centers with an offensively slanted role by looking at a ratio of PP to SH faceoffs. Why the offensive zone start % stat wasn't used here instead I'm not sure. I can see the methodology, but the other stat is so much easier to get :P The cutoff ratio used also was 0.75, which to me is a red flag. The writer wanted offensively slanted centers, but is willing to take centers that have taken more SH faceoffs than PP? My guess for this is because Bozak was a little over 0.75 and not above 1 which is why 0.75 was used.

    Next he says he will ignore the on ice sv% for that player when on the ice because he doesn't play goal. That stat does however usually give a pretty good indication of how a players defensive abilities are. Why isn't this stat used? Probably because Bozak has a good on ice sv%.

    Then he starts using some Fenwick (imagine that, using Fenwick in his calculation to prove Bozak is bad when everyone knows that the Leafs have had a bad Fenwick the last couple years) calculation and says "there is SOME randomness in this calculation's results, but the idea is that over the long term that randomness would wash out" but then proceeds to use only the games from 2011-2013, in other words, 1 and a half seasons. By the way, thought I would add here that his list of 72 top 6 centers includes a number of people I wouldn't consider a top 6 center and even more people who don't play center.

    Further I'm still confused by this part: "Just an aside on this point - maybe this helps explain WHY Chicago had Bolland as their 3rd C? Just a suggestion that maybe the Stanley Cup champions, who have won multiple times in recent years, and do well according to fancy stats, know more about his value than the Leafs?"
    Last I checked we aren't playing Bolland as a top 6 C for most games and you just have to follow the leafs for a bit to understand it's not so much as a top 6 but rather a top 9.

    Then for the defensive side he does some Corsi regression calculation thing. This time instead of using the 2011-2013 stats like above (since that would be good for comparison sake), he uses the stats since 2007. This way Bozak can be ranked 678th out of 712 forwards. He then proceeds to mention Bolland is 600th in the same ranking as if to take a shot at him too. But wasn't Bolland wildly considered to be one of the best 3rd line centers (ie defensive centers) for a few of these years? Wouldn't that indicate that the rankings mean squat? Or you could also look at it as the best defensive players are near the bottom of this list with Bolland meaning Bozak is good? ;)

    The the article concludes with "I think there's really only one obvious option here - and that's to make Kadri the top line C for the future... and the future is now."
    In the last couple games, yes, it appears that Kadri can play top line center duties with Kessel and JVR and produce at a slightly higher pace. But at the same time, what have our other lines done in those games? When Kadri is with Kessel we largely become a 1 line team. Yes, yes, we still have people like Lupul and Clarkson and Raymond on the other lines, but they are not nearly as productive when Kadri isn't playing with them. Spread the offense out.


    tl;dr, I have issues with the article :laugh:
     
  25. Rinzler

    Rinzler Registered User

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    This article states the obvious. Everyone knows Bozak is a #3C but he's miscast in Toronto due to a lack of high end center talent. We also already know that Kadri is being primed for the job.

    Kadri will get that job sooner or later, he just needs to work on rounding out his game. You can see Randy slowly giving him more and more responsibility. IIRC, he was on the PK in Calgary at one point. Until that happens, I'm sure Randy is enjoying a balanced top 6 in which Kessel and JVR handle the offensive workload on the 1st line with Lupul and Kadri doing it on the 2nd.

    All in all, it really doesn't matter what labels we place on these guys, the team works as it is right now and we're developing our guys properly by having them earn their place and not gifting it to them. Bozak's no dummy, he knows his money is made through hard work and all round usefulness and he knows full well he's not a #1C. That's why he's paid 4.25mil and not 7+mil for #1C money. In Bozak's defense, he is able to play 20minutes night in and night out and delivers a consistent well rounded product out there.

    When Kadri can deliver a 2 way game with the level of dedication that Carlyle expects and can be thrown into PK situations and put in situations where he can protect a lead, then we can consider him our #1C. By this time next year I believe Kadri will have the job full time.
     

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