News Article: Leafs Analysis at Centre - Kadri,Bolland,Bozak

AustonMitchWilly

Registered User
Jul 3, 2013
2,315
1
Good read but a little harsh. Im all for grabbing another C. But were doing well and lets love thzt right now.
 

Damisoph

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
8,985
2,310
I know I'll probably get bashed for this but it's amazing to me how these nobody bloggers just totally disrespect a NHL player, calling him "terrible" and "awful", yet he obviously plays a role on this team or Carlyle wouldn't play him.

Not only that, it's by some criteria the blogger "generally assumed" could accurately represent how awful Bozak is.

I'm not saying Bozak fits the stereotypical #1C role, I would love to see Eric Staal or whomever between JVR and Kessel but that's not going to happen. If Kadri is able to keep this up maybe we've got our #1C I don't know.
 
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Penalty Kill Icing*

Guest
I think Bolland and Bozak bring pretty much the same things on the table. Bolland however is better defensively, but sucks on faceoffs.

But I like Bolland's playoff experience and clutch plays.
 

Duke Silver

Truce?
Jun 4, 2008
8,610
1,942
Toronto/St. John's
I know I'll probably get bashed for this but it's amazing to me how these nobody bloggers just totally disrespect a NHL player, calling him "terrible" and "awful", yet he obviously plays a role on this team or Carlyle wouldn't play him.

Not only that, it's by some criteria the blogger "generally assumed" could accurately represent how awful Bozak is.

I'm not saying Bozak fits the stereotypical #1C role, I would love to see Eric Staal or whomever between JVR and Kessel but that's not going to happen.

Bashing Bozak is PPP and TLN's shtick.

How many times are they going to beat their visitors over the head with this vendetta? I've long since unfollowed them. They're obsessed with "I told you so" vindication.
 

wulfio*

Guest
I know I'll probably get bashed for this but it's amazing to me how these nobody bloggers just totally disrespect a NHL player, calling him "terrible" and "awful", yet he obviously plays a role on this team or Carlyle wouldn't play him.

Not only that, it's by some criteria the blogger "generally assumed" could accurately represent how awful Bozak is.

I'm not saying Bozak fits the stereotypical #1C role, I would love to see Eric Staal or whomever between JVR and Kessel but that's not going to happen. If Kadri is able to keep this up maybe we've got our #1C I don't know.

What's even more amazing to me is people on this site source bloggers all the time, like the opinion of a basement dweller who can't skate means anything.
 

Diatomic

Mitch Matthewlander
Mar 12, 2013
9,178
81
Air Canada Centre
Brilliant Article. Its amazing how people can keep their eyes closed when the truth in literally right in front of them. Open your eyes people.
 

7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
18,570
14,127
North Carolina
I know I'll probably get bashed for this but it's amazing to me how these nobody bloggers just totally disrespect a NHL player, calling him "terrible" and "awful", yet he obviously plays a role on this team or Carlyle wouldn't play him.

Not only that, it's by some criteria the blogger "generally assumed" could accurately represent how awful Bozak is.

I'm not saying Bozak fits the stereotypical #1C role, I would love to see Eric Staal or whomever between JVR and Kessel but that's not going to happen. If Kadri is able to keep this up maybe we've got our #1C I don't know.

Mike Kostka. Korbinian Holzer.

What's even more amazing to me is people on this site source bloggers all the time, like the opinion of a basement dweller who can't skate means anything.

I too refuse to ever disagree with authority.
 

Damisoph

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
8,985
2,310
Brilliant Article. Its amazing how people can keep their eyes closed when the truth in literally right in front of them. Open your eyes people.

Of course it's brilliant (with a capital B) and the truth when it coincides with the agenda you've been pushing.

Bozak should be in the ECHL!!!! I mean, it's ridiculous.
 

Damisoph

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
8,985
2,310
Mike Kostka. Korbinian Holzer.

You're going to compare playing these guys as #6D with playing Bozak on the top line? Yes, RC is incompetent and a complete failure as judge of NHL talent.
 

Diatomic

Mitch Matthewlander
Mar 12, 2013
9,178
81
Air Canada Centre
Of course it's brilliant (with a capital B) and the truth when it coincides with the agenda you've been pushing.

Bozak should be in the ECHL!!!! I mean, it's ridiculous.

Bozak should be in the NHL just not in the 1st line. Try reading the article and you'll understand why.
 

7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
18,570
14,127
North Carolina
You're going to compare playing these guys as #6D with playing Bozak on the top line? Yes, RC is incompetent and a complete failure as judge of NHL talent.

No, I'm not. Just pointing out that assuming a player is being played in a role because he's the best player for that role isn't always correct. See: Holzer on the top pairing, Gardiner in the AHL, Bozak on the PP, etc. etc.

Carlyle's done a great job with our PK, but half of his roster decisions are...a little more interesting than they should be.

What's even more amazing to me is people on this site source bloggers all the time, like the opinion of a basement dweller who can't skate means anything.

Just to expand on this, it appears NHL.com does: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=689400&navid=DL|NHL|home

Read the Leafs blurb. Steve Burtch's article on PPP is linked.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,092
38,152
How is a blog a News Article? I don't see how their opinion is any more valid than someone posting here.
 

wulfio*

Guest
No, I'm not. Just pointing out that assuming a player is being played in a role because he's the best player for that role isn't always correct. See: Holzer on the top pairing, Gardiner in the AHL, Bozak on the PP, etc. etc.

Carlyle's done a great job with our PK, but half of his roster decisions are...a little more interesting than they should be.



Just to expand on this, it appears NHL.com does: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=689400&navid=DL|NHL|home

Read the Leafs blurb. Steve Burtch's article on PPP is linked.

oh you're assuming I have respect for any media outlet. cute.
 

Penalty Kill Icing*

Guest
Another Bozak thread. Just what the doctor ordered. :yo:
 

Grant

LL Genius
Jan 16, 2012
14,193
1
London
So many things that made me go :facepalm: I will try and point them all out ;)

First off, SURPRISE!!! An article that set out to make Bozak look bad succeeded (stat picking is pretty easy isn't it).

Next his selection of centers used in my opinion is off. He went after choosing centers with an offensively slanted role by looking at a ratio of PP to SH faceoffs. Why the offensive zone start % stat wasn't used here instead I'm not sure. I can see the methodology, but the other stat is so much easier to get :P The cutoff ratio used also was 0.75, which to me is a red flag. The writer wanted offensively slanted centers, but is willing to take centers that have taken more SH faceoffs than PP? My guess for this is because Bozak was a little over 0.75 and not above 1 which is why 0.75 was used.

Next he says he will ignore the on ice sv% for that player when on the ice because he doesn't play goal. That stat does however usually give a pretty good indication of how a players defensive abilities are. Why isn't this stat used? Probably because Bozak has a good on ice sv%.

Then he starts using some Fenwick (imagine that, using Fenwick in his calculation to prove Bozak is bad when everyone knows that the Leafs have had a bad Fenwick the last couple years) calculation and says "there is SOME randomness in this calculation's results, but the idea is that over the long term that randomness would wash out" but then proceeds to use only the games from 2011-2013, in other words, 1 and a half seasons. By the way, thought I would add here that his list of 72 top 6 centers includes a number of people I wouldn't consider a top 6 center and even more people who don't play center.

Further I'm still confused by this part: "Just an aside on this point - maybe this helps explain WHY Chicago had Bolland as their 3rd C? Just a suggestion that maybe the Stanley Cup champions, who have won multiple times in recent years, and do well according to fancy stats, know more about his value than the Leafs?"
Last I checked we aren't playing Bolland as a top 6 C for most games and you just have to follow the leafs for a bit to understand it's not so much as a top 6 but rather a top 9.

Then for the defensive side he does some Corsi regression calculation thing. This time instead of using the 2011-2013 stats like above (since that would be good for comparison sake), he uses the stats since 2007. This way Bozak can be ranked 678th out of 712 forwards. He then proceeds to mention Bolland is 600th in the same ranking as if to take a shot at him too. But wasn't Bolland wildly considered to be one of the best 3rd line centers (ie defensive centers) for a few of these years? Wouldn't that indicate that the rankings mean squat? Or you could also look at it as the best defensive players are near the bottom of this list with Bolland meaning Bozak is good? ;)

The the article concludes with "I think there's really only one obvious option here - and that's to make Kadri the top line C for the future... and the future is now."
In the last couple games, yes, it appears that Kadri can play top line center duties with Kessel and JVR and produce at a slightly higher pace. But at the same time, what have our other lines done in those games? When Kadri is with Kessel we largely become a 1 line team. Yes, yes, we still have people like Lupul and Clarkson and Raymond on the other lines, but they are not nearly as productive when Kadri isn't playing with them. Spread the offense out.


tl;dr, I have issues with the article :laugh:
 

Razz

Registered User
Jan 23, 2011
4,457
719
Mississauga
This article states the obvious. Everyone knows Bozak is a #3C but he's miscast in Toronto due to a lack of high end center talent. We also already know that Kadri is being primed for the job.

Kadri will get that job sooner or later, he just needs to work on rounding out his game. You can see Randy slowly giving him more and more responsibility. IIRC, he was on the PK in Calgary at one point. Until that happens, I'm sure Randy is enjoying a balanced top 6 in which Kessel and JVR handle the offensive workload on the 1st line with Lupul and Kadri doing it on the 2nd.

All in all, it really doesn't matter what labels we place on these guys, the team works as it is right now and we're developing our guys properly by having them earn their place and not gifting it to them. Bozak's no dummy, he knows his money is made through hard work and all round usefulness and he knows full well he's not a #1C. That's why he's paid 4.25mil and not 7+mil for #1C money. In Bozak's defense, he is able to play 20minutes night in and night out and delivers a consistent well rounded product out there.

When Kadri can deliver a 2 way game with the level of dedication that Carlyle expects and can be thrown into PK situations and put in situations where he can protect a lead, then we can consider him our #1C. By this time next year I believe Kadri will have the job full time.
 

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