Post-Game Talk: Leafs 4, Pens 3 - 30 Minutes Not Enough

[Ryder71]

Record is ass. Several of those wins are lame ass 3v3 wins. In my mind we're below .500 in playoff record keeping. Byslma did better in regular season with less.

Bylsma also never learned to adjust in his tenure here. Glad he helped win us the Cup, but after that his teams wildly underachieved.

 

[Tom Hanks]

What I’d like to see:
Simon-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Rust
Hagelin-Bluegar-Archibald

What we’re going to see:
Sheary-Crosby-Rust
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Sheahan-Hornqvist
Kuhnhackl-Rowney-Reaves

I had to step out so I only wrote I don’t like it without providing any insight lol.

I’d rather have Kessel on the third but he needs a defensive responsible LW which leaves Hags at the moment but we can’t have two guys who are struggling to score goals on the same line.

We have quite a few flaws right now. As you said we need a trade. I actually can’t make a line up I really like or even just like right now.

 

[Tom Hanks]

We were missing a 3C. We had Reaves (like him or not, we both know he's here for reasons outside of being the best option in terms of his play) plus Rowney, Wilson, and Kuhn. All three of those guys have been good enough to be full time 4th liners on Cup rosters. JR left one hole on this roster to start the year, and imo underestimated how much of our 4th line's effectiveness was because of Cullen.

You make it sound like he went into this season with 4 or 5 holes in our bottom 6. He didn't. He had a hole at 3C, he trusted Rowney more than I would have (and only after waiting on Cullen), and he wanted an enforcer. It hasn't worked out. He's certainly got work to do. But he had a pretty reasonable (albeit conservative) summer.

Cullen was key because Wilson and Kuhnhackl worked on the 4th line because the had a skilled centre. Take that away and they become redundant.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The Pens are going to be one dominant team again once the NHL reduces the game from 60 minutes to 30 minutes.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Pens are going to be one dominant team again once the NHL reduces the game from 60 minutes to 30 minutes.

Just wait until till it goes 3v3!

Oh, wait..

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Simon was awesome, really like that guy, I hope he sees more ice with the team. Reaves should never play a single minute. Maatta was marvelous. The structrual errors this team has must be so obvious to JR, I'm exptecting trades really soon.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I guess my thoughts are what they have been all year.

If they are sandbagging it conserving themselves until when the games matter fine. If not then not so much. We will not know for a few months.

Also sandbagging it explains laziness, taking shifts off, not blocking shots. It does not explain sloppy passes out of the zone which is something that they should be working on at this time of the year and which was a hallmark of this team since Sullivan becasme coach.

 

[Pens x]

We were missing a 3C. We had Reaves (like him or not, we both know he's here for reasons outside of being the best option in terms of his play) plus Rowney, Wilson, and Kuhn. All three of those guys have been good enough to be full time 4th liners on Cup rosters. JR left one hole on this roster to start the year, and imo underestimated how much of our 4th line's effectiveness was because of Cullen.

You make it sound like he went into this season with 4 or 5 holes in our bottom 6. He didn't. He had a hole at 3C, he trusted Rowney more than I would have (and only after waiting on Cullen), and he wanted an enforcer. It hasn't worked out. He's certainly got work to do. But he had a pretty reasonable (albeit conservative) summer.

He went into the season with McKegg, Rowney, Kuhnhackl, and Reaves. He has addressed one of those holes in Sheahan. We no longer have to worry about seeing McKegg play. But we still need a 3C, 4LW and 4RW.

Hopefully Simon will solve another hole.

 

[Ryder71]

I guess my thoughts are what they have been all year.

If they are sandbagging it conserving themselves until when the games matter fine. If not then not so much. We will not know for a few months.

Also sandbagging it explains laziness, taking shifts off, not blocking shots. It does not explain sloppy passes out of the zone which is something that they should be working on at this time of the year and which was a hallmark of this team since Sullivan becasme coach.

They need to work smarter and not harder. TBH I don't think they're conserving much when their down in games as it takes an enormous amount of energy (and xtra ice time to big name players) to try and get back and tie it up. They'd be better off just being better at the start of games because in the end, they won't have to expend as much energy.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He went into the season with McKegg, Rowney, Kuhnhackl, and Reaves. He has addressed one of those holes in Sheahan. We no longer have to worry about seeing McKegg play. But we still need a 3C, 4LW and 4RW.

Hopefully Simon will solve another hole.

He actually went in to the season with Wilson too. Both Wilson and Kuhn were 25-30 point pace NHL players over the two previous seasons. 4LW did not look like a hole this summer. I expected some amount of drop-off from what they did with Cullen, but not to nearly the degree we've seen.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Cullen was key because Wilson and Kuhnhackl worked on the 4th line because the had a skilled centre. Take that away and they become redundant.

Indeed. But I'm not about to blame JR for expecting Wilson and Kuhn to be a respectable 4th liners. Both had been playing like 25-30 point players for two years. Same with Hagelin on the 3rd line. He's been bad, but I think most everybody thought last year was a down year and he would be at least back to his Ranger days of 30 points.

 

[Ryder71]

He actually went in to the season with Wilson too. Both Wilson and Kuhn were 25-30 point pace NHL players over the two previous seasons. 4LW did not look like a hole this summer. I expected some amount of drop-off from what they did with Cullen, but not to nearly the degree we've seen.

I don't want to vilify Reaves, but the combination of bringing him in and losing Cullen has largely rendered that line useless.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't want to vilify Reaves, but the combination of bringing him in and losing Cullen has largely rendered that line useless.

I certainly won't argue with that. I said pretty much as soon as we made that trade that we needed a more talented center than Rowney for that line if Reaves is going to be there. And that was with Wilson on the other side. Now the LW is even less talented than I expected.

I think under the right circumstances Reaves can be an effective player. But it will take the right linemates, and the right opponent. I hope that come playoff time Reaves isn't a lock to play every night.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Wasn't Cullen recently a healthy scratch in Minny because he simply has not fit there? We might see him back here.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He was easily one of our best players tonight. From his perspective that's great, from a team perspective not so much.

Well he looked good and it's more proof that there are players in WBS that are likely better than some of the guys on the roster or at the least, better for big club in small batches to jump start this team some how.

Sullivan needs to have his own closed door meeting.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Wasn't Cullen recently a healthy scratch in Minny because he simply has not fit there? We might see him back here.

I've been half joking he is going to be traded back here when he and the Wild are not doing well and well, it's almost coming true! I wouldn't mind seeing him push some of the 4th line fodder out and off the team.

I'd sooner see a 4th line of Hagelin-Cullen-Archibald or Simon-Cullen-Archibald over the horse shit we've been seeing.

 

[Ryder71]

Well he looked good and it's more proof that there are players in WBS that are likely better than some of the guys on the roster or at the least, better for big club in small batches to jump start this team some how.

Sullivan needs to have his own closed door meeting.

Well, it's one game, so, let's not lose sight of that. As far as Sully goes, and while he has made some head scratching decisions IMO, Ultimately I have trust in him. You win back to back cups you're obviously doing something right.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Well, it's one game, so, let's not lose sight of that. As far as Sully goes, and while he has made some head scratching decisions IMO, Ultimately I have trust in him. You win back to back cups you're obviously doing something right.

Yeah, and?

My point was calling up kids is a good thing, for a couple of games at a time. Simon in previous call ups usually looked more erratic, but this time he brought some punch to the bottom 6. If they would call up DiPauli (a pest version of Rust), that could inject some jump into the bottom 6 as well, over Reaves even if they refuse to use Archibald.

 

[EightyOne]

Id trade MIN a 4th round pick, conditional to a 3rd if we made it to the Finals. Throwing assets of any other value at an ex-roster UFA who left late in the off-season hurting chances at filling his absence in a dismal state seems bad

I guess my thoughts are what they have been all year.

If they are sandbagging it conserving themselves until when the games matter fine. If not then not so much. We will not know for a few months.

Also sandbagging it explains laziness, taking shifts off, not blocking shots. It does not explain sloppy passes out of the zone which is something that they should be working on at this time of the year and which was a hallmark of this team since Sullivan becasme coach.

Id prefer they sandbag against western conference teams only...

 

[mpp9]

We looked fine to me for most of the game. Leafs have better forward depth than us right now. And without MM, the better goalie.

Winnable game with MM in net. Pens get focused for 60 and add some depth, we'll be fine.

 

[wheelz87]

It pisses me off that Simon did more tonight than Kuhn has all season. WHY DID WE GO AWAY FROM SPEED AND SKILL?? We've wasted 30 games of Kuhn and Reaves doing nothing. Tell me a 4th line of Hags-Rowney-Simon is not significantly better...

Win 2 cups with an identity, then immediately change it. yeppp.

Also, I kind of got the feeling that the reason Bones wasn't re-signed was he didn't fit our system - you know, our speed and skill identity. And I was pretty content with the move. Then we go and get Sheahan. Who doesn't fit the team identity! He's a slow center that has a good shot and that's it. (Keyword on SLOW - same as Bones) Why did we go after him?? (he's fine as a 4c for the record) Why did we go away from everything that worked???

Why does Hornqvist get demoted to third line when he's been our 2nd best winger all year???
Why do you keep promoting Rust when it's clear he's the most comfortable and best at being 'the guy' on the third line?? He finds a way to be invisible when in the top 6, yet night in and night amongst the best on the ice when he's playing on the third line.

 

[deakka]

Soon out of the playoffs when Rangers win one of their ganes in hand .

Shit is geting real.....

JR better make a move before the roster freeze, or else the hill to climb might be too steep.

 

[EightyOne]

We looked fine to me for most of the game. Leafs have better forward depth than us right now. And without MM, the better goalie.

Winnable game with MM in net. Pens get focused for 60 and add some depth, we'll be fine.

So.

Bad communication between forwards and defense.

Perimeter shots.

No sustained pressure...except PP.

Losing track of players in defensive zone.

Players standing around watching the puck.



Means the team was fine? Don't be fooled by the score. Pens weren't in it. Depth and goaltending really weren't the problem. Sloppy play was a problem.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Soon out of the playoffs when Rangers win one of their ganes in hand .

**** is geting real.....

JR better make a move before the roster freeze, or else the hill to climb might be too steep.

Yeah the climb is no joke, Metro is the toughest division in the NHL and has been for a while. You drop back 2-4pts, you're fighting not only 1 or 2 teams, but likely 3 teams to earn your spot back before you floundered.

 

[BHD]

As awful as Kuhn has been, he played on both Cup-winning teams. What's bad is playing Kuhn and Rowney and Reaves. Both of those guys aren't the fleetest of foot, and neither of them are known for their skill.

For as much flak as Fehr took, he'd be an upgrade over who is suiting up right now.