Post-Game Talk: Leafs 4, Pens 0 - Because Someone Has To Start a PGT for this Mess

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Malkin seemed off. His skating was slow and he has no jump. I bet he isn’t 100%.

Nobody was sharp.

Passes were not crisp. How many off the mark passes did I see that took away a scoring opportunity or shot.

Murray did fine, Jarry wouldn’t have done any better.

I bet the players thought it was going to be easy which is why they didn’t show up.

I wonder if what happened is going to influence JR to doing more that he would have otherwise.

Also, didn’t know Malgin was available. Would have loved to take a stab at him considering he went for an AHLer.

 

[Richard]

Biggest difference in the game last night and Tuesday was Murray. Jarry is able to handle the puck and start the breakout, which, in turn, gives our defenders that extra half second to make a play.

The Leafs came hard all night and forchecked with speed. It would have been nice to have Jarry back there giving our defenders that extra half second to make a play.

On to the next game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Biggest difference in the game last night and Tuesday was Murray. Jarry is able to handle the puck and start the breakout, which, in turn, gives our defenders that extra half second to make a play.

The Leafs came hard all night and forchecked with speed. It would have been nice to have Jarry back there giving our defenders that extra half second to make a play.

On to the next game.

Yes, the reason they went from scoring 5 goals last game to 0 goals this game is because they played Murray instead of Jarry. Hard hitting analysis there.

 

[The Old Master]

Yes, the reason they went from scoring 5 goals last game to 0 goals this game is because they played Murray instead of Jarry. Hard hitting analysis there.

so you don't think get the puck up ice quickly helps the offense?

 

[Richard]

Yes, the reason they went from scoring 5 goals last game to 0 goals this game is because they played Murray instead of Jarry. Hard hitting analysis there.

They were having trouble making the first pass all game long. Your argument makes no sense. There was a noticeable difference in the puck leaving our zone-lots of icings and everything.

If we play the Leafs in the playoffs we damn well better start Jarry. He gives a guy like Letang that extra half second to make a play.

And if you don't realize how important and crucial that first pass is to "scoring five goals" I can't help you.

 

[Empoleon8771]

so you don't think get the puck up ice quickly doesn't help the offense?

So you really think playing a different goalie is going to have that dramatic of an impact on offense?

This just further supports my though that this website is horrid for talking goaltending, because people will literally make nonsensical stuff up to prop up their guy or tear down the other guy. Acting like the reason that a team went from scoring at will one game to getting dominated and shut out is because of the puck moving talent of the goalie is absurd even for this board's standards.

 

[Richard]

So you really think playing a different goalie is going to have that dramatic of an impact on offense?

YES.

As an aside, I thought Murray played fine stopping the puck. The difference was that the Leafs took away the boards and forced our defenders to through the puck up the middle and we had problems all game long as a result.

My point was by having Jarry stop the puck behind the net and let us have that extra second to start the play on Tuesday it was much easier on our backend (which contains some paper soft players- PEtersson and Rigola fall over if you sneeze).

 

[Empoleon8771]

YES.

As an aside, I thought Murray played fine stopping the puck. The difference was that the Leafs took away the boards and forced our defenders to through the puck up the middle and we had problems all game long as a result.

My point was by having Jarry stop the puck behind the net and let us have that extra second to start the play on Tuesday it was much easier on our backend (which contains some paper soft players- PEtersson and Rigola fall over if you sneeze).

You have literally zero evidence to support the claim that having a dramatically better puck moving goalie has a significant impact on offense. It helps transition maybe a handful of times a game. There is a positive there, but there's nothing to support it's anywhere close to the impact you say it has.

 

[The Old Master]

So you really think playing a different goalie is going to have that dramatic of an impact on offense?

This just further supports my though that this website is horrid for talking goaltending, because people will literally make nonsensical stuff up to prop up their guy or tear down the other guy. Acting like the reason that a team went from scoring at will one game to getting dominated and shut out is because of the puck moving talent of the goalie is absurd even for this board's standards.

i don't know, but sometimes its the small things that make the biggest deference.

 

[Richard]

You have literally zero evidence to support the claim that having a dramatically better puck moving goalie has a significant impact on offense. It helps transition maybe a handful of times a game. There is a positive there, but there's nothing to support it's anywhere close to the impact you say it has.

The entire team was a bit off last night, I grant you that, and there was a lot negative going on.

However, denying that a goalie being able to play the puck isn't an advantage is laughable. Jarry made three or four excellent plays with his stick when it was 1-0. He stopped a cross crease pass as an extra defender.

If you don't see the value in that or how much pressure that takes off the d core I can't help you.

If we play a fast team in the playoffs we should start Jarry.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I literally said Jarry's puck moving is a clear positive. I'm saying acting like the biggest difference between last night and the last Leafs game is the puck moving of the goalies is downright asinine. It's genuinely amazing that anyone could seriously watch the two games and conclude that the biggest difference is something as small of a positive as the puck moving talent of the goalies.

The biggest difference in the two games is that the Leafs were horrid in the first game and came out flying in the second. That's probably because of Murray too according to some people on this board. It's probably also the goalies fault that the Leafs were letting cross ice passes on the PK go insanely easily, which resulted in the Penguins getting 3 powerplay goals. It's probably playing Murray over Jarry that caused Andersen to not make turnovers that led to goals against in the second game

 

[Richard]

I literally said Jarry's puck moving is a clear positive. I'm saying acting like the biggest difference between last night and the last Leafs game is the puck moving of the goalies is downright asinine. It's genuinely amazing that anyone could seriously watch the two games and conclude that the biggest difference is something as small of a positive as the puck moving talent of the goalies.

The biggest difference in the two games is that the Leafs were horrid in the first game and came out flying in the second. That's probably because of Murray too according to some people on this board.

You know, I didn't want to take the bait but....


You have no idea what you're talking about, it is extremely clear to me. If a puck moving goalie was not such a friggen HUGE advantage in the game why the hell did they change the rules because of Martin Brodeur?

Last matchup we scored 3 powerplay goals. Understood. But we also were able to quickly exit the zone with speed. We were constantly attacking and grinding the leafs D.

This game we were stuck- the Leafs were able to set up and take away the wall.

Wait why am I doing this its pointless....

Ya you're right enjoy

 

[MartinS82]

Games like this happen when one team is cruising along and just took over 1st and the other team is desperate.

 

[Malkinstheman]

@Richard You have any ideas on who JR could be after?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah I'm not sure what's going on with Schultz. The most frustrating thing is his offense has completely dried up. They need him, particularly with the injuries, to be a 2-3 and he's playing like a 6-7.

That's the thing I've been repeating over and over. Schultz's offensive game has disappeared. He's always been iffy at best defensively, so he's got to make it up by being a threat on offense. But he's simply not at this point. I mean, Jack Johnson is just as likely to record a point at this point.

If your defensive coverage looks like it does on that Hyman goal, you better damn well make up for it by being a 40-ish point defender.

 

[Pens1566]

I was thinking more Papa Roach, but this works too. Clove cigarettes and tears.

I'll be honest, it was a tossup between Smiths and Death Cab for Cutie.

 

[ncm7772]

I’m done with this team

See ya.

Why the f*ck are people acting like the sky is falling after we lose a game to a team we just pummeled nights ago?

We’re first in the division with this ridiculous injury-riddled season so far. If you don’t believe in this team yet...don’t think anything is gonna change your outlook.

Same reason why they were saying the Pens were Cup-bound after Tuesday's win. There's no middle ground in Yinz-land!

i could only get tsn - INSUFFERABLE- so i muted and turned on the radio. bourque had no sooner finished saying "they're playing a really good road game, making good decisions. you just get the feeling they're just lying in wait!" than muzzin scored

fools and idiots all around

Yeah, dude. It was nauseating. They couldn't keep talking about how good the Leafs were all night. Even during the first intermission (after the Pens were up in shots 14-10 IIRC correctly, mind you) they made it sound as though the Leafs were up 7-0 and didn't allow a shot, all the while making Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Murray seem like fringe ECHLers.

Yea, I know how tough it is to win a cup, I have watched more of them than you. I'm questioning you and others considering this team a legit "contender" this season.

St Louis was the hottest team for nearly 3 months last year. The Pens looked like the best in 16 starting in early to mid February that season. Tampa and Boston have that look this year.

Without Jake, without Phil.... who's coming up big this playoffs outside of Sid or Geno?? Maybe Rust... Maybe McCann catches fire. Maybe

They are a two line team and both lines have holes. I look at TB, Boston and Washington... I see depth, I also see tough matchups for how our team is constructed.

You're so arrogant, and you are so wrong.

To an extent, I agree. I think the Pens can win in the playoffs, but I'm also quite surprised how many people truly feel they're a legit Cup contender.

I mean. I just don’t see the issue. Boston, Tampa and Washington have all done this throughout the year.

Also HFPens. Try not to lose your mind when Ovi scores 700 against us on Sunday.

I've already accepted it, so hopefully it doesn't sting too much when it actually happens.

Yeah I'm not sure what's going on with Schultz. The most frustrating thing is his offense has completely dried up. They need him, particularly with the injuries, to be a 2-3 and he's playing like a 6-7.

Yeah, dude. Like he's been BAD offensively. 2+6=8. Hasn't been the same since his injury last year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You know, I didn't want to take the bait but....


You have no idea what you're talking about, it is extremely clear to me. If a puck moving goalie was not such a friggen HUGE advantage in the game why the hell did they change the rules because of Martin Brodeur?

Last matchup we scored 3 powerplay goals. Understood. But we also were able to quickly exit the zone with speed. We were constantly attacking and grinding the leafs D.

This game we were stuck- the Leafs were able to set up and take away the wall.

Wait why am I doing this its pointless....

Ya you're right enjoy

I'd buy this if the defense wasn't also coughing up pucks when they had all the time in the world to make a play. One play Johnson had full control of the puck, had the time to survey his options, saw three forwards open, then proceeded to ice the puck. No pressure from the Leafs, no "if only he had a couple extra seconds".

Could Jarry's puckhandling have helped on a few occasions? Maybe. But the problem last night was the defense just wasn't crisp with their passing. Hell, they made adventures of it even with routine D to D passes when trying to reset. They'd pass way off the mark or pass into their D partner's skates, with only one Leaf forechecker in front of them.

The team was just OFF last night, and I think people are now retroactively trying to find reasons why they would have been ON if Jarry was in net.

 

[TooManyHumans]

If the difference between the two games was mainly or even significantly the result of the goaltenders then Jarry is much, much better than any of us have been giving him credit for and Murray is much, much worse. That was a complete team (lack of) effort and execution last night.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The team was just OFF last night, and I think people are now retroactively trying to find reasons why they would have been ON if Jarry was in net.

Maybe some are, but there's just as much hypothesizing now about why having a goalie who can play the puck doesn't matter.

I'm willing to chalk it up as a bad game and move on.

In the future though, they need to shore up the blueline, and we'll only really get that by addition when Dumo and Marino rejoin the team. But I wouldn't mind seeing us trade Schultz for some help there.

 

[Shady Machine]

I might have missed this, but did we give Riikola shit for his brutal positioning on the breakaway goal?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is someone on my ignore list saying that having a goalie that plays the puck well doesn't matter? Because I genuinely don't see a single person saying that. I see me saying "the idea that going from scoring 5 goals to getting shut out is because of puck moving of goalies is downright asinine", but I see no one saying puck moving of goalies doesn't matter.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Is someone on my ignore list saying that having a goalie that plays the puck well doesn't matter? Because I genuinely don't see a single person saying that. I see me saying "the idea that going from scoring 5 goals to getting shut out is because of puck moving of goalies is downright asinine", but I see no one saying puck moving of goalies doesn't matter.

I still don't get the where you think people are saying that Emp. Nobody's saying that having Jarry in net would have seen us score 5 goals, unless I'm also ignoring some habitual offenders. Just that Jarry gives us a tool to use that Murray doesn't, and it might have helped the defense look less like ass if they had someone to play the puck.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And for the record, Murray is now officially the new MAF judging by how every thread devolves into him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I still don't get the where you think people are saying that Emp. Nobody's saying that having Jarry in net would have seen us score 5 goals, unless I'm also ignoring some habitual offenders. Just that Jarry gives us a tool to use that Murray doesn't, and it might have helped the defense look less like ass if they had someone to play the puck.

"Biggest difference in the game last night and Tuesday was Murray. Jarry is able to handle the puck and start the breakout, which, in turn, gives our defenders that extra half second to make a play."

Maybe you are ignoring the habitual offenders, that's completely possible. But the whole debate started because someone said "the biggest difference was puck handling of the goalies", not that the Leafs were downright horrid in the first game. The Penguins just had a bad game, but because the Pittsburgh tradition is to make stupid takes about goaltending, people feel the need to say that the puck moving of goalies is why they got embarrassed. And when they get called out on the bad take, they come up with strawmen arguments like "so you think puck moving of goalies doesn't matter?".