Post-Game Talk: Leafs 4, Pens 0 - Because Someone Has To Start a PGT for this Mess

[Andy99]

Not to overreact, but I was wondering what our 5 on 5 numbers look like since Jan 1 compared to other teams (rankings)...I feel like they’ve been pretty average to poor...this does not bode well for our contender status and you can’t just turn on the switch...I culled this from ESPN article about the Blues today (actually about seven trades)...


“From Jan. 1 through the end of the regular season, the Blues were arguably the best 5-on-5 team in the league. In that 45 game sample they were:

• Second in shot attempt share (behind the Bruins)
• First in shot on goal share
• First in high-danger chance share
• First in expected goal share”
  
  goes on to say that this is a big predictor of postseason success despite outlier results like CLB’s win against TB...analytics people?

 

[vodeni]

to quote Rossi in the Athletic article:
"Through Jan 14, the date of Crosby's return after missing over two months while recovering.........the Penguins ranked first, second, and third in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HSCFA/60....from that point through last night they rate 20th, 18th and 18th"

.....I understand that they can't replace Marino and Dumo, cause other D-man except Tanger are not good to say at least....however, they have to adjust, forwards have to pick up and skate back harder, get open for a transition, and hustle harder in general...I also think with defense like this it would help way more if Jarry is n the goal more, his puck handling really helps those jittery d-man that we have, we are getting pinned down in our zone way too much. This has been a month of a visible slide in their game (again injuries are legit reason if you wanna keep riding that high horse), Sully knows it, even PGH media started asking those questions....The fact that we had winning record during that period is just great goaltending, a ton of luck and some Sid's heroics...that is not something you can count on as we saw last night. End of February is not the time to get the bad habits creep up
The good news is if anyone can get the message across and figure this out it would be Sally....with Dumo amd Marino back and one more legit frward that can play give and go with either Sid or Geno we still have a chance....The entire Metro kind of playing mediocre now except maybe Phily, so we are good there too....

Lets see how Sully's message will resonate over the weekend

 

[vodeni]

Agreed. I don't think he's as putrid defensively as some make him out to be, but he's doing nothing offensively. He can't even make an outlet pass anymore. 2+6=8 in 36 games .



Yup. All true.



Amen, brother. It's been 13 games since he scored. During that time he has 4 assists and is a -9. That's borderline hideous. Everyone wants to blame HCMS for his struggles (which never made sense to me. It's HCMS' fault that McCann can't produce while playing next to SFC? Um, ok. ), but I'm on board with you. He has to produce. That's on him. Not the coach. Dude has been invisible for quite a while now, and frankly, the team needs A LOT more from him.

He is putrid defensively, just plain awful

 

[HandshakeLine]

The concerns with Schultz have been around for a couple seasons now, way longer than AG was ever here.

Can’t speak for everyone, but I generally expect a guy making 5.5m to play better than replacement level hockey.

He kind of reminds me of how he looked in Edmonton just before the trade-- no confidence with the puck, and shaky without it. Whatever's going on, he looks like he needs a fresh start somewhere else.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You think playing Jarry would have helped the Pens actually score a goal?

I mean, no goalie was winning tonight with the offensive display the Pens put on. It's not like it was a 6-5 game where every time the Pens scored one, Murray let in a goal.

I just find it incredibly strange to question goaltending when a team gets shutout.

Are you surprised? Some people on this board has shown time and time again they're absurdly dumb when it comes to goaltending. The team is literally near the top of the league in save% despite being bad defensively over the last month and a half, yet people are still complaining about goaltending.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Are you surprised? Some people on this board has shown time and time again they're absurdly dumb when it comes to goaltending. The team is literally near the top of the league in save% despite being bad defensively over the last month and a half, yet people are still complaining about goaltending.

Emp, for how huffy you get about people twisting your words, you might not want to paint with this ridiculously large brush.

Most of the posts about Jarry's puckhandling weren't about him shooting, but about using his skill to break up the Leafs' attack and begin our transition. You know that. That's a fundamental part of playing with a goalie who's a puckhandler and it works incredibly well for teams that can utilize it.

Whether or not he would have helped the offense, is, of course, a hypothetical question. But it's not dumb to wonder about it.

Either way, goaltending was not the reason we lost, but I think it's right to ask why we're not utilizing the goalie with better puckhandling skills to help us patch up our blueline. Now, if we're planning on retooling the blueline this deadline and off-season, that's a moot point, but for the moment, I think it's definitely something we should be discussing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Emp, for how huffy you get about people twisting your words, you might not want to paint with this ridiculously large brush.

Most of the posts about Jarry's puckhandling weren't about him shooting, but about using his skill to break up the Leafs' attack and begin our transition. You know that. That's a fundamental part of playing with a goalie who's a puckhandler and it works incredibly well for teams that can utilize it.

Whether or not he would have helped the offense, is, of course, a hypothetical question. But it's not dumb to wonder about it.

Oh no, that's not the part I was referring to. I was referring to the people who flip shit whenever the goalies have any bad game or the team loses. Saying Jarry's puckhandling may help the Penguins more is definitely a fair question to ask, it's the people who say "Playing Murray is pissing away points, I can't believe they didn't start Jarry!" in a game where the Penguins lost 4-0 and got pretty much embarrassed.

You know that there are some people here who freak the f*ck out about goaltending anytime this team doesn't win a game. I don't think anyone should be surprised when it happens after last night because it happens all of the time.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Oh no, that's not the part I was referring to. I was referring to the people who flip shit whenever the goalies have any bad game or the team loses. Saying Jarry's puckhandling may help the Penguins more is definitely a fair question to ask, it's the people who say "Playing Murray is pissing away points, I can't believe they didn't start Jarry!" in a game where the Penguins lost 4-0.

Yeah, I feel you there. But that's because Murray is the new Fleury, and Jarry is the new Murray, and f***, yinzers can't handle talking about QBs or goalies in any way shape or form.

 

[Andy99]

to quote Rossi in the Athletic article:
"Through Jan 14, the date of Crosby's return after missing over two months while recovering.........the Penguins ranked first, second, and third in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HSCFA/60....from that point through last night they rate 20th, 18th and 18th"

.....I understand that they can't replace Marino and Dumo, cause other D-man except Tanger are not good to say at least....however, they have to adjust, forwards have to pick up and skate back harder, get open for a transition, and hustle harder in general...I also think with defense like this it would help way more if Jarry is n the goal more, his puck handling really helps those jittery d-man that we have, we are getting pinned down in our zone way too much. This has been a month of a visible slide in their game (again injuries are legit reason if you wanna keep riding that high horse), Sully knows it, even PGH media started asking those questions....The fact that we had winning record during that period is just great goaltending, a ton of luck and some Sid's heroics...that is not something you can count on as we saw last night. End of February is not the time to get the bad habits creep up
The good news is if anyone can get the message across and figure this out it would be Sally....with Dumo amd Marino back and one more legit frward that can play give and go with either Sid or Geno we still have a chance....The entire Metro kind of playing mediocre now except maybe Phily, so we are good there too....

Lets see how Sully's message will resonate over the weekend

is it solely the injuries? I don’t think so because we had a tremendous December and Dumo was out the whole month...add Marino on top and of course it hurts...but I think it’s more likely that we peaked too early...or as Peat would say, they took their foot off the gas when Sid returned....but teams can’t sustain playing hard like that for 82 games, just not going to happen...can they recapture their December? I’m skeptical...

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hmmm... why would our transition suffer when we lost our absolute stud rookie defenseman? I can't seem to put my finger on it.

 

[Beauner]

to quote Rossi in the Athletic article:
"Through Jan 14, the date of Crosby's return after missing over two months while recovering.........the Penguins ranked first, second, and third in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HSCFA/60....from that point through last night they rate 20th, 18th and 18th"

So some of it is injuries for sure. But also, look who we've played in that timeframe post 1-14. Bruins twice. Flyers twice. Tampa Twice. Washington. Toronto twice. 9 out of 14 games against some of the best teams in the league, and 2 who are desperate for playoff spots.

Yeah those numbers are concerning. But maybe kind of reasonable?

 

[PaulD]

to quote Rossi in the Athletic article:
"Through Jan 14, the date of Crosby's return after missing over two months while recovering.........the Penguins ranked first, second, and third in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HSCFA/60....from that point through last night they rate 20th, 18th and 18th"

.....I understand that they can't replace Marino and Dumo, cause other D-man except Tanger are not good to say at least....however, they have to adjust, forwards have to pick up and skate back harder, get open for a transition, and hustle harder in general...I also think with defense like this it would help way more if Jarry is n the goal more, his puck handling really helps those jittery d-man that we have, we are getting pinned down in our zone way too much. This has been a month of a visible slide in their game (again injuries are legit reason if you wanna keep riding that high horse), Sully knows it, even PGH media started asking those questions....The fact that we had winning record during that period is just great goaltending, a ton of luck and some Sid's heroics...that is not something you can count on as we saw last night. End of February is not the time to get the bad habits creep up
The good news is if anyone can get the message across and figure this out it would be Sally....with Dumo amd Marino back and one more legit frward that can play give and go with either Sid or Geno we still have a chance....The entire Metro kind of playing mediocre now except maybe Phily, so we are good there too....

Lets see how Sully's message will resonate over the weekend

I like the Pens chances alot this spring. I like them alot less with Murray in net.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

We had a mini snow storm here in NC and it iced up my satellite dish and I couldn't watch any of the game. I was pissed but sounds like Mother Nature picked a good game for me to miss

 

[Andy99]

So some of it is injuries for sure. But also, look who we've played in that timeframe post 1-14. Bruins twice. Flyers twice. Tampa Twice. Washington. Toronto twice. 9 out of 14 games against some of the best teams in the league, and 2 who are desperate for playoff spots.

Yeah those numbers are concerning. But maybe kind of reasonable?

But that’s who you have to beat if you want to be a contender...this just shows then that they’re not up to the task, which is concerning...

 

[K Fleur]

This team seems to respond/bounce back pretty well to these terrible losses.

 

[Beauner]

But that’s who you have to beat if you want to be a contender...this just shows then that they’re not up to the task, which is concerning...

They went 4-5 in those 9 games playing their worst hockey of the year. That's actually kind of impressive that they have been that poor in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HSCFA/60 and still won 4 games against the leagues best. With some major key injuries. In what is considered the "dog days" of the season.

I'm not trying to make excuses here but the context surrounding the past month or so doesn't paint as dire a picture as it does if you solely look at the numbers.

And please spare me the "they're not up to the task". I'm sure everyone thought Tampa was "up to the task" when they were steamrolling the league at this time last year.

 

[PaulD]

Caught Tuesdays game , but missed last nights.

Disappointing. Hate the leafs.

Surprised too. Thought Malkin would be all rested and have a big game.

Lovejoy might have learned to pipe down though. He was quoted all over Toronto sports media for his "playing the leafs is personally good for your brand" Who the f*** is this guy ....PK Lovejoy? "Brand" ? Is he even in the Pens line up if they are healthy?
Never give a team something to pin up on the board.

 

[Andy99]

They went 4-5 in those 9 games playing their worst hockey of the year. That's actually kind of impressive that they have been that poor in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HSCFA/60 and still won 4 games against the leagues best. With some major key injuries. In what is considered the "dog days" of the season.

I'm not trying to make excuses here but the context surrounding the past month or so doesn't paint as dire a picture as it does if you solely look at the numbers.

And please spare me the "they're not up to the task". I'm sure everyone thought Tampa was "up to the task" when they were steamrolling the league at this time last year.

Any outlier result can happen in the POs...more often than not it doesn't...

 

[K Fleur]

I mean don’t think there is too much to read into when we have a bad loss while playing 5 defenseman who have been anywhere from meh to awful this season. Especially since two of them won’t be playing if we get healthy(lol)

 

[Beauner]

Is he even in the Pens line up if they are healthy?

Probably not considering he's retired

 

[PaulD]

Probably not considering he's retired

lol. I meant as a player

worded that wrong....my bad.

 

[PaulD]

They went 4-5 in those 9 games playing their worst hockey of the year. That's actually kind of impressive that they have been that poor in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HSCFA/60 and still won 4 games against the leagues best. With some major key injuries. In what is considered the "dog days" of the season.

I'm not trying to make excuses here but the context surrounding the past month or so doesn't paint as dire a picture as it does if you solely look at the numbers.

And please spare me the "they're not up to the task". I'm sure everyone thought Tampa was "up to the task" when they were steamrolling the league at this time last year.

I love the Pens chances this season. When is Dumolin due back?

Im also hoping the start Jarry in the first play off game. Got a feeling on this kid. Big game player.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't know how much rest a vomiting, shitting Malkin got over the last few days.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Oh no, that's not the part I was referring to. I was referring to the people who flip shit whenever the goalies have any bad game or the team loses. Saying Jarry's puckhandling may help the Penguins more is definitely a fair question to ask, it's the people who say "Playing Murray is pissing away points, I can't believe they didn't start Jarry!" in a game where the Penguins lost 4-0 and got pretty much embarrassed.

You know that there are some people here who freak the f*ck out about goaltending anytime this team doesn't win a game. I don't think anyone should be surprised when it happens after last night because it happens all of the time.

Not nearly as erudite as you and others on all things hockey, but I do know human nature: there are folks on this board who have gone so all in re one goaltender or the other, anything that tends to bolster their POV (valid or not) is seized upon. It's nonsensical at some point. (I really don't get the MAF references in the context of this argument either, move on for the love of God. Different circumstances for one thing.)

 

[cookthebooks]

i would much rather lose a humiliating game than lose a close one where they were lucky and flattered by the scoreline