Prospect Info: Leafs' 2019 3rd-round (#84) -- D Mikko Kokkonen -- Liiga Finland 5' 11" /200 lbs

[thewave]

Like this pick a lot. I mean a lot.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I haven't seen any QoC stats, but here is where I got all the stats: Player stats | Advanced | Regular season 2018-2019 | Stats | Liiga

I ninja edited, and I doubt you saw it.. but he had the 3rd hardest zone starts of any defenseman in the league that played 10 or more games. It's crazy that a coach trusted a U18 defenseman that much in a men's league, and honestly based on the CF% it was probably far too much, far too soon. I'd love to see if his stats change with easier zone starts, or just improvement with age, or if he's just another Ristolainen.

well even if we got a poor man's Risto out of a 3rd round pick, that's still something you can parlay into a better asset. Something tells me that all of the "complete", "responsible", "high IQ" commentary on him will mean that he's way less of a possession drag than Risto even if he has some of that in him

 

[Morgs]

well even if we got a poor man's Risto out of a 3rd round pick, that's still something you can parlay into a better asset. Something tells me that all of the "complete", "responsible", "high IQ" commentary on him will mean that he's way less of a possession drag than Risto even if he has some of that in him

Fingers crossed man, but it does look like we have a NHL'er here. Hopefully he's at development camp/rookie camp and we see first hand what he's like in comparison to the rest of our prospects.

Maybe even stay with the Marlies the whole year if possible.

 

[Walshy7]

Fingers crossed man, but it does look like we have a NHL'er here. Hopefully he's at development camp/rookie camp and we see first hand what he's like in comparison to the rest of our prospects.

Maybe even stay with the Marlies the whole year if possible.

no, no rush marlies have quite a few D right now. Let him go back and lead his team on defense unless they start signing better players but that team doesn't sound like an organization that will be doin that. Play reasonably big mins then the following year the marlies basically taking Sandin's spot who should be NHL ready in the 2020/21 season

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Fingers crossed man, but it does look like we have a NHL'er here. Hopefully he's at development camp/rookie camp and we see first hand what he's like in comparison to the rest of our prospects.

Maybe even stay with the Marlies the whole year if possible.

I think he's under contract for 2 more years, so I'm not sure we'll see him until then. I do see him as a high floor, low ceiling type player based on his skillset, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Fingers crossed man, but it does look like we have a NHL'er here. Hopefully he's at development camp/rookie camp and we see first hand what he's like in comparison to the rest of our prospects.

Maybe even stay with the Marlies the whole year if possible.

that would be nice...though it actually looks like we're developing a real-prospect logjam on the Marlies D, which I didn't expect to be saying this soon. Kokkonen's pedrigree makes him pretty intriguing so maybe he can vault himself to the top of the RD heap if Liljegren makes the big club, but Lindgren & Hollowell both looked like they could handle bigger roles too.

cautiously optimistic that we may get some good players out of that group

 

[Morgs]

no, no rush marlies have quite a few D right now. Let him go back and lead his team on defense unless they start signing better players but that team doesn't sound like an organization that will be doin that. Play reasonably big mins then the following year the marlies basically taking Sandin's spot who should be NHL ready in the 2020/21 season

I think after all three of Willy, Liljegren, and Sandin succeeding with the Marlies at 18 that maybe this should be something we start looking into more when we get the chance.

I am all for him staying in Finland, but I don't like the fact his team is awful, the fact he was 6th on his team's defense in ice-time, and the fact that they absolutely threw him to the wolves with the zone starts. If you look at my post a couple back and see what he did compared to other defenseman drafted in the top-3 rounds since 2017 you'll see the guy played the least amount of minutes (except Vaakanainen), got BY FAR the hardest zone starts, and still managed to be 2nd best PPG of the group while playing the most games? I love seeing our prospects get challenged, but it's hard thinking "maybe they should have eased off him a bit" and wondering what it'll be like next season if that was mostly a 17 year old year. Is it a wasted year of development? It definitely wouldn't be if he was in NA.

 

[Knies iT]

no, no rush marlies have quite a few D right now. Let him go back and lead his team on defense unless they start signing better players but that team doesn't sound like an organization that will be doin that. Play reasonably big mins then the following year the marlies basically taking Sandin's spot who should be NHL ready in the 2020/21 season

There won't be many spots available with the Marlies next season, especially on the left side. Assuming Rosen makes the NHL out of camp, its safe to assume that Sandin will spend the entire year with the Marlies. Liljegren might get a taste down the stretch, a la the Dermott treatment, but he'll likely spend more time with the Marlies too and he's a RHD. So, you're looking at:

Sandin - Liljegren
Borgman - Lindgren
Kral - Hollowell
[Duszak]

And that's without any AHL veteran signings. Wouldn't mind seeing Kokkonen stay in the Liiga for one more year considering he is getting prime opportunity with the club. Even if they aren't the best team, he's getting a heap of D-zone starts, which is somewhat of a baptism by fire, but can bode well for a prospect down the line. In one year, Sandin will be graduated and Kokkonen can fill his vacancy with the Marlies.

 

[Morgs]

I think he's under contract for 2 more years, so I'm not sure we'll see him until then. I do see him as a high floor, low ceiling type player based on his skillset, but I could be wrong on that.

I think Finland/Sweden have an understanding with NHL prospects? If not, then I retract my statement and I'm just gonna wish him well out there & cross my fingers Jukurit doesn't f*** him up.

that would be nice...though it actually looks like we're developing a real-prospect logjam on the Marlies D, which I didn't expect to be saying this soon. Kokkonen's pedrigree makes him pretty intriguing so maybe he can vault himself to the top of the RD heap if Liljegren makes the big club, but Lindgren & Hollowell both looked like they could handle bigger roles too.

cautiously optimistic that we may get some good players out of that group

Agreed. But what we've been told is he plays both sides of the ice and really could be part of a switch that Keefe does frequently anyways. I wouldn't want it to happen unless we can guarantee him playing a similar amount of games he'd play in Liiga with at least 15 minutes a game, but it would be so nice looking at him transition to NA ice at 18, and be able to have full control on his development in our backyard for 4 years before having to make a real decision.

Based on how most scouts think he's a "finished product" (lol), I don't see how he shouldn't be able to at least handle bottom-pairing minutes in the AHL. Might be a decent idea even looking at the CHL depending on what team owns his rights.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Agreed. But what we've been told is he plays both sides of the ice and really could be part of a switch that Keefe does frequently anyways. I wouldn't want it to happen unless we can guarantee him playing a similar amount of games he'd play in Liiga with at least 15 minutes a game, but it would be so nice looking at him transition to NA ice at 18, and be able to have full control on his development in our backyard for 4 years before having to make a real decision.

Based on how most scouts think he's a "finished product" (lol), I don't see how he shouldn't be able to at least handle bottom-pairing minutes. Might be a decent idea even looking at the CHL depending on what team owns his rights.

Ya I guess I agree with that, I don't see a lot of upside for him playing on a bad Liiga team where he's accomplished about as much as he will there on a personal level, might as well get him used to NA sized ice as long as he's playing in a big enough role to make it worthwhile for him to stay here. Might be a similar approach to Liljegren on that front, the situation isn't that much different

 

[Orfieus]

There won't be many spots available with the Marlies next season, especially on the left side. Assuming Rosen makes the NHL out of camp, its safe to assume that Sandin will spend the entire year with the Marlies. Liljegren might get a taste down the stretch, a la the Dermott treatment, but he'll likely spend more time with the Marlies too and he's a RHD. So, you're looking at:

Sandin - Liljegren
Borgman - Lindgren
Kral - Hollowell
[Duszak]

And that's without any AHL veteran signings. Wouldn't mind seeing Kokkonen stay in the Liiga for one more year considering he is getting prime opportunity with the club. Even if they aren't the best team, he's getting a heap of D-zone starts, which is somewhat of a baptism by fire, but can bode well for a prospect down the line. In one year, Sandin will be graduated and Kokkonen can fill his vacancy with the Marlies.

With how Dubas talked about bringing Liljegren up before his injury and how he played in the playoffs Liljegren has that 3rd RHD spot and will be his to lose

Also Kral still doesn't have a contract so I'm not sure where he will end up, maybe be an overager or maybe he will go to the ECHL. What I don't like is how inexperienced that right side is without Liljegren, it looks like someone will have to step up and play big next year. I'm leaning toward Lindgren since he's already been playing against men for a few years,

Sandin - Lindgren
Borgman - Hollowell
Kokkonen - Duszak

I would not be opposed if Toronto signed a vet to play on that right side with Sandin. Someone who could take a lot of Dzone starts and kill penalties

 

[Morgs]

Ya I guess I agree with that, I don't see a lot of upside for him playing on a bad Liiga team where he's accomplished about as much as he will there on a personal level, might as well get him used to NA sized ice as long as he's playing in a big enough role to make it worthwhile for him to stay here. Might be a similar approach to Liljegren on that front, the situation isn't that much different

Yeah, assuming you actually believe this guy is comparable with other recent 1st round picks Vaakanainen and Heinola (which I don't see why not), I think it's definitely something we should look into.

Like you said, the Leafs took Liljegren from Rogle, and we can assume it's because a) they didn't like how he was being utilized (played on 4 different teams in draft year, and 4 different teams in D-1) and b) they didn't like how shit the team was.

If they see the same thing for Kokkonen, I hope they don't hesitate.

 

[SprDaVE]

There won't be many spots available with the Marlies next season, especially on the left side. Assuming Rosen makes the NHL out of camp, its safe to assume that Sandin will spend the entire year with the Marlies. Liljegren might get a taste down the stretch, a la the Dermott treatment, but he'll likely spend more time with the Marlies too and he's a RHD. So, you're looking at:

Sandin - Liljegren
Borgman - Lindgren
Kral - Hollowell
[Duszak]

And that's without any AHL veteran signings. Wouldn't mind seeing Kokkonen stay in the Liiga for one more year considering he is getting prime opportunity with the club. Even if they aren't the best team, he's getting a heap of D-zone starts, which is somewhat of a baptism by fire, but can bode well for a prospect down the line. In one year, Sandin will be graduated and Kokkonen can fill his vacancy with the Marlies.

Kral isn't signed and I think it's likely he goes the long route of going back to Europe to come back when he's 22-23 years old if he shows progression, similar to what Rasanen is doing now. Borgman is also likely to be on the Leafs as a 7th/press box defenseman. The rest is about right, with Liljegren having a 50/50 shot of making the Leafs if he does really really well --- which would be a very good thing to happen.

I'd expect the Leafs to sign at least 1 to 2 AHL veteran defenseman on 1 way league minimum deals that can maybe push for a NHL job or be a call up if injuries start to pile up. Players like Gilmour, Welinski and/or Megna for examples. You always want to make sure you have sufficient depth not only at the NHL level, but at the AHL level. I'm sure other AHL signings will also help.

With all that said, Kokkonen will stay in Europe for awhile I imagine. No rush to get him here when he can get pretty big minutes against men over there.

 

[4thline]

OT but I wonder if an invite like Larsen (size, experience against men) caught someone's eye at the WC and has a chance to win a spot in the Marlies right side rotation

 

[thewave]

Kokkobeware is probably our best pick this draft.

 

[ULF_55]

Fingers crossed man, but it does look like we have a NHL'er here. Hopefully he's at development camp/rookie camp and we see first hand what he's like in comparison to the rest of our prospects.

Maybe even stay with the Marlies the whole year if possible.

no, no rush marlies have quite a few D right now. Let him go back and lead his team on defense unless they start signing better players but that team doesn't sound like an organization that will be doin that. Play reasonably big mins then the following year the marlies basically taking Sandin's spot who should be NHL ready in the 2020/21 season

If he is demonstrably better than what they have on the Marlies then you certainly keep him.

Marlies also are about winning.

Likely, a return home will be the outcome.

 

[deletethis]

I've witnessed the skating concerns watching a few YT videos of him. He's not very explosive off a standing start like pro defensemen have to be and he doesn't have any more than average straight ahead speed. He seems fairly agile, changes direction well and skates backwards well. These were videos of him in 2018 when he was 17. (source: and )

 

[showtime8]

I just watched the video of him on the first page of this thread.

A couple points that I caught on him.

He looks like a pretty safe player. Didn't do anything flashy & played quite well positionally. However, I think he got walked 3 or 4 times by standing still. The goal at 1:32 was a bad look & a chance at 9:48 against was also a bad look.

 

[Randy Randerson]

If he is demonstrably better than what they have on the Marlies then you certainly keep him.

Marlies also are about winning.

Likely, a return home will be the outcome.

I don't think that's true in terms of the team's stated purpose, Dubas was explicit in his intention to use the AHL & ECHL affiliates like AAA & AA teams in baseball with prospect development being the highest priority. Winning has really been a byproduct of the development aspects going well, but the Marlie teams of the Keefe era have really been prospect-driven, and moreso in the last couple of years after Arcobello/Brennan left

 

[thewave]

I've witnessed the skating concerns watching a few YT videos of him. He's not very explosive off a standing start like pro defensemen have to be and he doesn't have any more than average straight ahead speed. He seems fairly agile, changes direction well and skates backwards well. These were videos of him in 2018 when he was 17, maybe 16. (source: and )

All accounted for. He is 200lbs as a teen, if he were 185 like his height suggest he should be, he would be quicker off the hop. Barb will have him in spec in no time, great pick by Dubas.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kral isn't signed and I think it's likely he goes the long route of going back to Europe to come back when he's 22-23 years old if he shows progression, similar to what Rasanen is doing now. Borgman is also likely to be on the Leafs as a 7th/press box defenseman. The rest is about right, with Liljegren having a 50/50 shot of making the Leafs if he does really really well --- which would be a very good thing to happen.

I'd expect the Leafs to sign at least 1 to 2 AHL veteran defenseman on 1 way league minimum deals that can maybe push for a NHL job or be a call up if injuries start to pile up. Players like Gilmour, Welinski and/or Megna for examples. You always want to make sure you have sufficient depth not only at the NHL level, but at the AHL level. I'm sure other AHL signings will also help.

With all that said, Kokkonen will stay in Europe for awhile I imagine. No rush to get him here when he can get pretty big minutes against men over there.

Only thing is that Kral's rights expire next year I think, unless he goes to a non-transfer league. The Czech league is a transfer league.

Now I think there is something about whether his rights are loaned, and there is a good chance they are, so that could mean we get him for 4 years (essentially like a normal European). If that is the case, then he definitely could stand to go back to Europe for 2 or 3 years and develop over bringing him in right now.

An option for Kokkonen, if he (and the Leafs) feel like it is the best for his development, would be to go to the CHL. For one year, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. For one, he could pretty much select his team, so you could get a good team close to home most likely. It would allow him to develop his skating in North America without overwhelming him. Plus it should allow him to dominate, since he'd be a top pairing guy on a lot of teams right now.

If, for example, Mississauga drafted him, he could play top pairing with Thomas Harley since Kokkonen is a RD. No question. That is a good team that could make some waves next year, and it is practically in the Leafs' backyard. Mississauga needs good RD and have the CHL Import spots to bring him in.

The only downside is that he would be going from a pro league to a junior league, so that is obviously a major step back while moving away from home at the same time.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The analytics on this guy are off the charts. He put up 19 points playing against men including regular shifts on the PP and PK and was able to handle it.

Very few 17 year olds could handle playing in the AHL or a similar league without embarrassing themselves. That gives you some idea of how intelligent and mature Kokkonen is as a player. He might only be one year away from the NHL.

Add to that his versatility in playing both the left and right sides and he’s an absolute steal at 84. I had him ranked in the early second round.

 

[thewave]

The analytics on this guy are off the charts. He put up 19 points playing against men including regular shifts on the PP and PK and was able to handle it.

Very few 17 year olds could handle playing in the AHL or a similar league without embarrassing themselves. That gives you some idea of how intelligent and mature Kokkonen is as a player. He might only be one year away from the NHL.

Add to that his versatility in playing both the left and right sides and he’s an absolute steal at 84. I had him ranked in the early second round.

Now you know why I love this guy and have eased up on Dubas a little. The picks we did have, he did well on.

 

[Mr Hockey]

The analytics on this guy are off the charts. He put up 19 points playing against men including regular shifts on the PP and PK and was able to handle it.

Very few 17 year olds could handle playing in the AHL or a similar league without embarrassing themselves. That gives you some idea of how intelligent and mature Kokkonen is as a player. He might only be one year away from the NHL.

Add to that his versatility in playing both the left and right sides and he’s an absolute steal at 84. I had him ranked in the early second round.

most likely needs at least a few more years ... don't troll me like the Liligren crew for the next few years because I said that lol

 

[RoadWarrior]

most likely needs at least a few more years ... don't troll me like the Liligren crew for the next few years because I said that lol

He needs to work on his skating but he has that hockey sense and IQ you can’t teach.

The anti-Jake Gardiner.