Prospect Info: Leafs' 2019 2nd-round (#53) -- LW/C Nicholas Robertson -- OHL - 5' 9"/162lbs

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93LEAFS

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If the cap is going down or staying put next season I think Robertson will be with the Leafs. There will be a LW spot up for grabs beside Tavares and I think he could take it. I should be more apprehensive about brining a 19 year old into the NHL but with potential linemates like JT, Nylander, Marner, etc. that would help him be successful.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kapanen
Engvall - Spezza - Korshkov
You are oversimplifying what it is like playing with those guys. Robertson is used to shooting at all chances and having the puck run through him at the OHL level. For the first time in his life, he will be asked to be the 3rd wheel on a line. In a vacuum, Kapanen, Kerfoot, and Johnsson are more skilled than Hyman, but Hyman plays an extremely simple game and works hard, which is why he clicks at the 3rd wheel. Neither Tavares or Matthews are going to enjoy playing next to Robertson unless he stops shooting any chance he gets. He's a very promising prospect, but there is no need to rush him. That's a major reason some stars in junior can't adapt to the NHL, its not they don't have the skill level, its that they can't adapt to being the 3rd wheel on a line. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares all like to have the play run through them to an extent. Especially Marner. It might actually be easier for him to break in as a 3rd liner. But, I'd probably send him back to junior, especially if this likely weird off-season stops him from doing strength and skating training.
 
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Battle Lin

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just having that shot and playing on the 2nd PP in matthews spot, hes more useful than clifford already

the last time i checked you gotta score goals to win games, and the kid can already put some pucks in for you...hes starting low, but hes gonna eventually be matthews and marners partner for many many years
 
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Drew311

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You are oversimplifying what it is like playing with those guys. Robertson is used to shooting at all chances and having the puck run through him at the OHL level. For the first time in his life, he will be asked to be the 3rd wheel on a line. In a vacuum, Kapanen, Kerfoot, and Johnsson are more skilled than Hyman, but Hyman plays an extremely simple game and works hard, which is why he clicks at the 3rd wheel. Neither Tavares or Matthews are going to enjoy playing next to Robertson unless he stops shooting any chance he gets. He's a very promising prospect, but there is no need to rush him. That's a major reason some stars in junior can't adapt to the NHL, its not they don't have the skill level, its that they can't adapt to being the 3rd wheel on a line. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares all like to have the play run through them to an extent. Especially Marner. It might actually be easier for him to break in as a 3rd liner. But, I'd probably send him back to junior, especially if this likely weird off-season stops him from doing strength and skating training.

I think you're over-analyzing the situation. Having a top 3 playmaker in Marner on his line could be the best possible situation he could fall into to start his NHL career. Tavares is also one of the most dependable and responsible centers in the league. He also doesn't touch the puck a lot in the neutral zone so both Marner and Robertson would be tasked with puck carrying. Robertson also has the speed and shot to be very successful with Marner. If he can get open and hang around the net I don't see how he wouldn't produce.
 

Wafflewhipper

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You are oversimplifying what it is like playing with those guys. Robertson is used to shooting at all chances and having the puck run through him at the OHL level. For the first time in his life, he will be asked to be the 3rd wheel on a line. In a vacuum, Kapanen, Kerfoot, and Johnsson are more skilled than Hyman, but Hyman plays an extremely simple game and works hard, which is why he clicks at the 3rd wheel. Neither Tavares or Matthews are going to enjoy playing next to Robertson unless he stops shooting any chance he gets. He's a very promising prospect, but there is no need to rush him. That's a major reason some stars in junior can't adapt to the NHL, its not they don't have the skill level, its that they can't adapt to being the 3rd wheel on a line. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares all like to have the play run through them to an extent. Especially Marner. It might actually be easier for him to break in as a 3rd liner. But, I'd probably send him back to junior, especially if this likely weird off-season stops him from doing strength and skating training.

We’ll see come training camp next November;)
 
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93LEAFS

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I think you're over-analyzing the situation. Having a top 3 playmaker in Marner on his line could be the best possible situation he could fall into to start his NHL career. Tavares is also one of the most dependable and responsible centers in the league. He also doesn't touch the puck a lot in the neutral zone so both Marner and Robertson would be tasked with puck carrying. Robertson also has the speed and shot to be very successful with Marner. If he can get open and hang around the net I don't see how he wouldn't produce.
Tavares carries the puck in a ton on zone-entries. The issue is Robertson shoots pretty much every chance he gets, which doesn't play for the cycle game Matthews and Tavares like to play. If you look at how Robertson scores most of his goals, it is from shooting from the top of the circle to the hash or on breakouts. He isn't scoring goals in-tight or around homeplate consistently. He may produce playing with those two, but I don't think he optimizes their line, which should be the top concern. He may get there, but his game isn't at that level. And, while his shot is great, his speed and acceleration isn't.
 

Drew311

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Tavares carries the puck in a ton on zone-entries. The issue is Robertson shoots pretty much every chance he gets, which doesn't play for the cycle game Matthews and Tavares like to play. If you look at how Robertson scores most of his goals, it is from shooting from the top of the circle to the hash or on breakouts. He isn't scoring goals in-tight or around homeplate consistently. He may produce playing with those two, but I don't think he optimizes their line, which should be the top concern. He may get there, but his game isn't at that level. And, while his shot is great, his speed and acceleration isn't.

Look how much Nylander and Marner had to change their games to truly become top players in the league. How many times did you see Nylander hanging around the net until Keefe got here? How was Marner’s defensive game in the OHL? Did he kill penalties?

My point is many young players realize quickly that they can’t get away with a lot of things they pulled off in the OHL. Robertson’s game will change but that shot will make him successful at any level, especially if he has Marner on his line feeding him.
 
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Joey Hoser

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Look how much Nylander and Marner had to change their games to truly become top players in the league. How many times did you see Nylander hanging around the net until Keefe got here? How was Marner’s defensive game in the OHL? Did he kill penalties?

Marner did kill penalties in the OHL, and was pretty good defensively. Though his line was basically the Harlem Globetrotters of the OHL at the time, so it didn't take much.

He plays the same way in the NHL, pretty much. Moving up just nerfed him by like 15-20%.
 
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93LEAFS

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Look how much Nylander and Marner had to change their games to truly become top players in the league. How many times did you see Nylander hanging around the net until Keefe got here? How was Marner’s defensive game in the OHL? Did he kill penalties?

My point is many young players realize quickly that they can’t get away with a lot of things they pulled off in the OHL. Robertson’s game will change but that shot will make him successful at any level, especially if he has Marner on his line feeding him.
Robertson while a good prospect, isn't at the level of either of those guys at the same point of his career. I mean, Marner killed penalties for 2 years with the Knights. How much did you see of Marner or Robertson at the OHL level?

Robertson is a great prospect, but a lot of his goals aren't going to easily translate to the NHL. Its very rare for one a player to generate shots at the rate he does or from the distance he does. The goal of the team is too maximize each line, not maximize a certain players production. Yes, Robertson will probably produce if put with JT and Marner next year, but it may not be what is ideal for the team. Seems the best fit for the top 2 lines is a player in the mould of Hyman. Who works his ass off and plays a very simplistic game, not trying to do too much. Robertson works hard, but he has to adapt to being the 3rd option, and while hardworking, is going to have trouble winning a majority of battles down low. Historically, the best fit for Marner has been a player who is very strong down-low near the net such as Matthew Tkachuk or JVR. Hyman provides the down-low work ethic and has gotten better right around the net. JT and Kadri are also great right around the net.
 

Isaac Nootin

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You can tell the posters who know what their talking about (Leafs93), and those that don't.

Right now the way Robertson plays the game at the OHL level is not conducive to immediate success at the NHL level. I have no doubt he will and can make the necessary changes, but that won't happen by next year.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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Tavares carries the puck in a ton on zone-entries. The issue is Robertson shoots pretty much every chance he gets, which doesn't play for the cycle game Matthews and Tavares like to play. If you look at how Robertson scores most of his goals, it is from shooting from the top of the circle to the hash or on breakouts. He isn't scoring goals in-tight or around homeplate consistently. He may produce playing with those two, but I don't think he optimizes their line, which should be the top concern. He may get there, but his game isn't at that level. And, while his shot is great, his speed and acceleration isn't.
didn't OHL coaches just name him the most dangerous player in the goal area? Also just because he takes a lot of shots now doesn't mean he can't change things up. Smart players with a strong work ethic and a lot of skill can generally adjust their game to suit their linemates better. Sort of like how Tavares went from a playmaker on NYI with weak wingers to a goal scorer when he played with Marner. His skillset didn't magically change, he just changed his approach. No reason Robertson can't do something similar
 

93LEAFS

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didn't OHL coaches just name him the most dangerous player in the goal area? Also just because he takes a lot of shots now doesn't mean he can't change things up. Smart players with a strong work ethic and a lot of skill can generally adjust their game to suit their linemates better. Sort of like how Tavares went from a playmaker on NYI with weak wingers to a goal scorer when he played with Marner. His skillset didn't magically change, he just changed his approach. No reason Robertson can't do something similar
Watch where he actually scores from. He doesn't operate in the down-low area in-front of the net. He scores predominantly off sniping from rushes or on break-outs. He's going to have trouble making a killing in front of the net, in the NHL, he simply doesn't have the build for it. I'm not saying he's going to fail for these reasons, but people need to calm down with ideas like penciling him next to JT-Marner next year.

I mean, John Tavares is one of the most adaptable offensive players in the league. That isn't really a reasonable comparison point. Most guys have their skills, and then have to learn to adapt them to the NHL in a given role.
 
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BlueBaron

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What about players like Kerfoot chance of being moved. Trade him for a couple cases of N95 masks and a case of hand sanitizer and future considerations when vaccines become available. Thats a healthy haul in return right there no
It seems like Kerfoot's ability to play C and wing put him ahead of someone like AJ. That being said I think value and positional depth make Kappy most likely to be traded. Still I don't see burning a year of his ELC this soon since he would almost certainly be bottom 6. I would wager he is a Marlie getting top 6 minutes and presumably first PP.
 

Wafflewhipper

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It seems like Kerfoot's ability to play C and wing put him ahead of someone like AJ. That being said I think value and positional depth make Kappy most likely to be traded. Still I don't see burning a year of his ELC this soon since he would almost certainly be bottom 6. I would wager he is a Marlie getting top 6 minutes and presumably first PP.
Robertson can’t go to the Marlies. Ohl or Nhl
 

Kiwi

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Watch where he actually scores from. He doesn't operate in the down-low area in-front of the net. He scores predominantly off sniping from rushes or on break-outs. He's going to have trouble making a killing in front of the net, in the NHL, he simply doesn't have the build for it. I'm not saying he's going to fail for these reasons, but people need to calm down with ideas like penciling him next to JT-Marner next year.

I mean, John Tavares is one of the most adaptable offensive players in the league. That isn't really a reasonable comparison point. Most guys have their skills, and then have to learn to adapt them to the NHL in a given role.

I like the kid but the 3rd line with a puck distributing center, some linemates that can transition the puck and sheltering seems like a prudent course of action for Robertson

I'm definitely not against sending him back to junior either, I don't see any problem with giving the kid time if he's borderline ready

It seems like Kerfoot's ability to play C and wing put him ahead of someone like AJ. That being said I think value and positional depth make Kappy most likely to be traded. Still I don't see burning a year of his ELC this soon since he would almost certainly be bottom 6. I would wager he is a Marlie getting top 6 minutes and presumably first PP.

Hyman, Mikheyev and Engvall are all LW, Nylander, Kapanen and Kerfoot can play LW in a pinch and our best forward prospect is a LW

I don't think he's worth much right now but if I'm looking to move salary Johnsson is definitely first guy up for me

His injury history, size and play style mix, contract and positional inflexibility make him less valuable to me
 

BlueBaron

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I like the kid but the 3rd line with a puck distributing center, some linemates that can transition the puck and sheltering seems like a prudent course of action for Robertson

I'm definitely not against sending him back to junior either, I don't see any problem with giving the kid time if he's borderline ready



Hyman, Mikheyev and Engvall are all LW, Nylander, Kapanen and Kerfoot can play LW in a pinch and our best forward prospect is a LW

I don't think he's worth much right now but if I'm looking to move salary Johnsson is definitely first guy up for me

His injury history, size and play style mix, contract and positional inflexibility make him less valuable to me
Yeah value was part of my point. If we trade it's to get a decent RHD so logic dictates we'd have to trade someone of value, Kappy being the guy everyone seems to want. Ultimately without knowing what Dubas hears when he calls people it's really hard to guess but I am confident one of the 3 will go this summer. AJ's value is low right now though which is the worst time to move him.
 

Kiwi

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Yeah value was part of my point. If we trade it's to get a decent RHD so logic dictates we'd have to trade someone of value, Kappy being the guy everyone seems to want. Ultimately without knowing what Dubas hears when he calls people it's really hard to guess but I am confident one of the 3 will go this summer. AJ's value is low right now though which is the worst time to move him.

Not necessarily, free agency is another area you can use to supplement the defensive unit

Johnsson's value is lower because he isn't as valuable and I'm starting to think getting that contract off the books would be a prudent idea
 

Canada4Gold

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Why is that? Usually it's only one extra year after the draft isn't it? Funny birthday or something?

It's usually 2 years. Anyone born Jan 1st-Sep 15 would require 2 years if they're drafted out of the OHL and not there on loan(like Sandin was). The Sep 16-Dec 31st birthdays already have 3 OHL years in before drafted, and enter their final year the year after being drafted.
 
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BlueBaron

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Not necessarily, free agency is another area you can use to supplement the defensive unit

Johnsson's value is lower because he isn't as valuable and I'm starting to think getting that contract off the books would be a prudent idea
I think that would be rash. his value is down because he got hurt and did not return strong, he can bounce back yet.

I would be very surprised if we could add an FA D that would make much impact with a flat Cap. We would still need to move one of those 3rd liners just to cover a 3mil D let alone a significant top 4.

I guess we'll see. Either way our 3rd line is too expensive and something has to give.
 

stickty111

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I like the kid but the 3rd line with a puck distributing center, some linemates that can transition the puck and sheltering seems like a prudent course of action for Robertson

I'm definitely not against sending him back to junior either, I don't see any problem with giving the kid time if he's borderline ready



Hyman, Mikheyev and Engvall are all LW, Nylander, Kapanen and Kerfoot can play LW in a pinch and our best forward prospect is a LW

I don't think he's worth much right now but if I'm looking to move salary Johnsson is definitely first guy up for me

His injury history, size and play style mix, contract and positional inflexibility make him less valuable to me
Kiwi, honestly this sounds like criticism from a certain user just because he was drafted by Dubas, and not the other person.
If you watched Marner in his last OHL season, he was mainly a perimeter playmaker, and he had a standout rookie season in the NHL. All this stuff that Robertson shoots from the outside is basically like Marner. The difference is Robertson is a shooter, and Marner is a passer. Marner's strength isn't his speed really, it's his elite edge work. Same as Robertson now. If Marner can adjust in the NHL quickly, so can Robertson.
Also the "Robertson shoots on all chances" looks like a shot at him.
 

93LEAFS

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Kiwi, honestly this sounds like criticism from a certain user just because he was drafted by Dubas, and not the other person.
If you watched Marner in his last OHL season, he was mainly a perimeter playmaker, and he had a standout rookie season in the NHL. All this stuff that Robertson shoots from the outside is basically like Marner. The difference is Robertson is a shooter, and Marner is a passer. Marner's strength isn't his speed really, it's his elite edge work. Same as Robertson now. If Marner can adjust in the NHL quickly, so can Robertson.
Also the "Robertson shoots on all chances" looks like a shot at him.
It's not a shot at Robertson because of Dubas. It is a realistic evaluation off of seeing him and talking to people around the OHL.

If you think Marner and Robertson are close as prospects, you really need to re-evaluate him or remember what Marner was at the same age. Yes, Marner operated on the outside, but one, he was elite at cutting inside, but more importantly, was unreal at generating shot chances close to the net. Shooting from distance consistently is much different than working from the outside to generate high-danger chances around the crease. Just look at how Tkachuk, JVR, JT, and Kadri have scored playing with him. The only guys who tended to snipe a bit more from distance were Dvorak at the OHL level and Matthews at the NHL level. So, no the difference isn't one's a shooter and the others a passer. Because Marner was consistently generating shots for his line in high-danger locations. To just say one is a shooter and the other is a passer is beyond a simplistic evaluation of the game. Look at where their lines overall are generating shots from. Seriously, how close do you think 18-year-old Nick Robertson is to 18-year-old Mitch Marner as a prospect? I'd say there are at least 2 or 3 tiers between them. I'd say there is a pretty damn big gap. That's not a shot at Robertson, more to the point that Marner is arguably the best non-McDavid prospect to play in the OHL since 2014 . Robertson doesn't have Marner's edgework either, and he's notably slower to get up to speed.

I mean, you want to call me out. At least quote me and refute what I'm saying. You seriously blindly defend 99% of what Dubas does. Have I bashed this pick at all? No. It's probably the best possible pick at 53. I like the pick. But, people need to actually be realistic in what they see. Did you see me pimping up Bracco last year? No. Do I bash Sandin to big-up Liljegren? No. While I'm not sold on Dubas as a GM, I call it as I see it. Robertson is shooting like he's Ovi down there, and to his credit, it's working. But, unless you possess an Ovi or Matthews level shot, that isn't a recipe for success at the NHL level. Do I think he has shown the tools to become a good and possibly a top-line NHLer? Absolutely. But, people are getting way ahead of themselves on placing him as a boost over our current other top 6 options outside of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares. Going from the OHL to the NHL is a big gap.
 
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Kiwi

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Kiwi, honestly this sounds like criticism from a certain user just because he was drafted by Dubas, and not the other person.
If you watched Marner in his last OHL season, he was mainly a perimeter playmaker, and he had a standout rookie season in the NHL. All this stuff that Robertson shoots from the outside is basically like Marner. The difference is Robertson is a shooter, and Marner is a passer. Marner's strength isn't his speed really, it's his elite edge work. Same as Robertson now. If Marner can adjust in the NHL quickly, so can Robertson.
Also the "Robertson shoots on all chances" looks like a shot at him.

Robertson is one hell of a prospect and he's exceeded expectations to a massive degree but he isn't Marner and we don't need him to be

We've got guys that can drive lines in the top 6 and Robertson is still a kid, a bloody good one but we can look after him as he acclimatizes to the NHL level

Shelter him, give him a pass first center and puck transitioning RW to work with and make the most of his strengths

If the kid is great and shows he deserves to be bumped up the lineup, sweet let's do that but let's show some caution with him, he's important to our future

That's even presuming he proves he's ready for that level next season
 
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