Rumor: Leafs “actively shopping” Connor Carrick

[ottomaddox]

Not a good look for Leafs management to kick a guy off the team and disrupt the locker room right before the season begins

How does punting Carrick become a locker room disruption? He was a healthy scratch many times last season.

 

[ottomaddox]

I know there are many leaf fans here in support of Carrick. I respect that. I just think it is a good day when you can finally move on from him. It means our defense is getting stronger.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Not a good look for Leafs management to kick a guy off the team and disrupt the locker room right before the season begins

that happens with every team every year heading into the season, everyone makes cuts

 

[Pyrophorus]

Ritchie to toronto obviously

for Carrick...lets do it.

 

[FalcorMulch]

for what he'll return, unless we're looking at waiving him what's the point in not keeping him until the D corps is really set?

Oh I don't disagree. I like Carrick a lot. He was great last season and should have been playing over Polak. I was mainly just commenting on the logic of the poster's argument because hanging onto depth D isn't really going to plug the hole in the right side of our top pair.

I'm at the point where I like Carrick but it's obvious Babcock never will so I hope he gets a chance somewhere else.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I know there are many leaf fans here in support of Carrick. I respect that. I just think it is a good day when you can finally move on from him. It means our defense is getting stronger.

I'm a Carrick supporter and agree that if we move on that probably means we got better on D, but I'd wait until we were either at the point that we had to waive him or until the guys that appear to have earned a job over him prove they can keep it for a while

Oh I don't disagree. I like Carrick a lot. He was great last season and should have been playing over Polak. I was mainly just commenting on the logic of the poster's argument because hanging onto depth D isn't really going to plug the hole in the right side of our top pair.

I'm at the point where I like Carrick but it's obvious Babcock never will so I hope he gets a chance somewhere else.

replacing Polak will have such an impact, that will be the Leafs most underrated move. He was so far below a replacement level NHL'er and just caused his line to get hemmed constantly

I agree on your points, I'd keep Carrick around until we really know we don't need him or we need to waive him though. I care less about his own opportunity and more about having good guys to play in the case of injuries or to keep a fire lit under the guys who got the jobs

 

[dubplatepressure]

Not a good look for Leafs management to kick a guy off the team and disrupt the locker room right before the season begins

Right because that's not what every single team in the league does every single year or anything like that.... highly disruptive. Keep everyone. Waive no one.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Kassian or Caggiula straight up. We have too many NHL forwards and Jerabek has mostly been a bust. I don’t think Carrick would be an upgrade over Bear or Bouchard but another year in the AHL wont hurt Bear (though he’s been really good in camp) and destroying the OHL with Boqvist won’t hurt Bouchard.

When you’re getting soundly outplayed by a 33 year old Jason Garrison on a PTO, you should probably just cut bait and run for the Austrian league or something.

Not Kassian. He's overpaid, but when he's motivated he is worth it, plus his combination of size and skill are rare. I'd do Cagguila or Jerabek. If not, no worries, we'll just pass.

 

[MoreMogilny]

Carrick hasn’t earned a spot.

He hasn’t separated himself from the other D competing for spots in the bottom pairing.

He’s not without talent, and he’s an NHL player, but the Leafs have other options that make him redundant.

Give him a chance with another team. He will be successful and the Leafs can pick up an asset in return (mid pick?)

 

[Baksfamous112]

haha if he was on the Habs he would be worth Nylander in your eyes, you are one of the most biased posters on this forum in my experience. I know that people don't see their own biases when they don't want to, so I don't know why I'm bothering here

That is so untrue. I dare you to find an example of when I said stuff like that

 

[Randy Randerson]

That is so untrue. I dare you to find an example of when I said stuff like that

Paraphrase - "aren't these the same advanced stats that say Barberio is a star, Petry is a #1 and Weber is terrible"

 

[KPower]

Not a good look for Leafs management to kick a guy off the team and disrupt the locker room right before the season begins

Just when you thought this place couldn’t get any dumber.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Someone will probably pick him up, he was all-star dman in the AHL and he's still "only" 24.

Always find it weird how you can do so well in the minors and then struggle to even solidify a 3rd pair spot in the NHL, especially for a team that isn't stacked on D.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Paraphrase - "aren't these the same advanced stats that say Barberio is a star, Petry is a #1 and Weber is terrible"

Yep, I was trying to make a point that advanced stats aren’t always right and doesn’t always show what’s happening on the ice.

In no way shape or form have I ever said Barberio is a star or Petry is a #1. If anything, I was making fun of you and your advanced stats

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yep, I was trying to make a point that advanced stats aren’t always right and doesn’t always show what’s happening on the ice.

In no way shape or form have I ever said Barberio is a star or Petry is a #1. If anything, I was making fun of you and your advanced stats

I know, it demonstrated that you don't even look at the metrics let alone understand them because your assertions have been so ridiculously untrue

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Someone will probably pick him up, he was all-star dman in the AHL and he's still "only" 24.

Always find it weird how you can do so well in the minors and then struggle to even solidify a 3rd pair spot in the NHL, especially for a team that isn't stacked on D.

You do not know PK. That limits your usefulness as a defenseman, especially a bottom pairing one who is not good enough for the PP. If he knew PK, he would have been in over Polak probably.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I know, it demonstrated that you don't even look at the metrics let alone understand them because your assertions have been so ridiculously untrue

No, it just means you use them whenever you think it will help you prove your point. You 100% base your value of a player according to those stats while in a lot of cases these players don’t even pass the eye test.

Carrick is a prime example.

 

[glucker]

Someone will probably pick him up, he was all-star dman in the AHL and he's still "only" 24.

Always find it weird how you can do so well in the minors and then struggle to even solidify a 3rd pair spot in the NHL, especially for a team that isn't stacked on D.

Leafs may not be stacked with proven NHL D...but they have a lot of young guys vying for those bottom spots, and a chance to prove themselves, and get promoted up through the ranks.

I don't think it's as much of an organizational weakness as it's made out to be, it's just not a very mature position.

 

[Randy Randerson]

No, it just means you use them whenever you think it will help you prove your point. You 100% base your value of a player according to those stats while in a lot of cases these players don’t even pass the eye test.

Carrick is a prime example.

"you are dumb because you use evidence to support points"

 

[Baksfamous112]

"you are dumb because you use evidence to support points"

« Your are dumb because you, Leafs management and probably the rest of the NHL doesn’t acknowledge that my advanced stats (and my point) are right »

 

[Liferleafer]

"you are dumb because you use evidence to support points"

I will politely say this, there are those among humanity...myself included, that don't take graphs and spread sheets as evidence. We will take what we see on ice to make our evaluations.

 

[Randy Randerson]

« Your are dumb because you, Leafs management and probably the rest of the NHL doesn’t acknowledge that my advanced stats (and my point) are right »

so, Kyle Dubas, frequent speaker at analytics conferences, and the organization that made him one of the youngest GM's in the league supplanting one of the most seasoned and another good internal candidate do not believe in analytics?

you do present some good arguments...

I will politely say this, there are those among humanity...myself included, that don't take graphs and spread sheets as evidence. We will take what we see on ice to make our evaluations.

I agree that it has to line up with what you see, but I think we need to stop calling things like Corsi and Fenwick "advanced stats" too. They're part of the landscape now and they measure things that are actually happening, they're not voodoo and they are tangible. If you believe in things like goals, assists, shots, scoring chances, you should believe in at least the set of metrics that measure things that happen on the ice. Keep in mind they measure correlation, not causation as well - this is a measurement of what's happening while the guy is on the ice (and compares it to what happens to the same for his team mates when he's not in the "relative" versions), it doesn't state the this guy is the reason why those are happening. Over a large enough sample it becomes more and more likely that the subject player has the effect that the numbers indicate though

when it gets to things that are a little more predictive by nature, like expected goals, I can understand there being a little more faith required

 

[Baksfamous112]

so, Kyle Dubas, frequent speaker at analytics conferences, and the organization that made him one of the youngest GM's in the league supplanting one of the most seasoned and another good internal candidate do not believe in analytics?

you do present some good arguments...


I agree that it has to line up with what you see, but I think we need to stop calling things like Corsi and Fenwick "advanced stats" too. They're part of the landscape now and they measure things that are actually happening, they're not voodoo and they are tangible. If you believe in things like goals, assists, shots, scoring chances, you should believe in at least the set of metrics that measure things that happen on the ice. Keep in mind they measure correlation, not causation as well - this is a measurement of what's happening while the guy is on the ice (and compares it to what happens to the same for his team mates when he's not in the "relative" versions), it doesn't state the this guy is the reason why those are happening. Over a large enough sample it becomes more and more likely that the subject player has the effect that the numbers indicate though

when it gets to things that are a little more predictive by nature, like expected goals, I can understand there being a little more faith required

I’m not saying I don’t believe in analytics, I just said I don’t believe in Carrick even though he has good analytics and from the look of it, Dubas agrees with me

 

[Randy Randerson]

I’m not saying I don’t believe in analytics, I just said I don’t believe in Carrick even though he has good analytics and from the look of it, Dubas agrees with me

Dubas agrees with you because a guy from a noteably inaccurate hockey rumours website tweeted that Carrick might be moved without stating the motivation for that move if true (which is likely competition, not his own play) after being part of the management team that traded for Carrick?

you want me to be wrong so bad that you cling to whatever you think supports that and you don't think in the process

 

[hector morrison]

Someone will probably pick him up, he was all-star dman in the AHL and he's still "only" 24.

Always find it weird how you can do so well in the minors and then struggle to even solidify a 3rd pair spot in the NHL, especially for a team that isn't stacked on D.

Given that bna- fide all-stars who never see the AHL are what players of Carricks caliber see on a nightly basis when they come up,the struggle is real. It really is a big leap,talent wise...I'm sure it's every bit as rough but the skill level is no comparison.