Rumor: Leafs “actively shopping” Connor Carrick

[Randy Randerson]

Numbers and stats are easily manipulated....just watch him play, tells you all you need to know. You see, the problem is this...you yourself just said that your graph shows his effectiveness in a limited role...well an NHL game is much more than short spurts of limited roles.

they're not, this is a visual representation of raw data (through the filter of a bell curve to display where he ranks in terms of the echelon of his peers). When I watch him, I don't see a terrible player, I see an effective defender who plays within his limited talents. Polak was our problem, just wait to see how much better the bottom pairing is this year whether its Carrick/Holl/Ozhiganov on the right or Borgman/Rosen/Dermott on the left

I understand them well enough to know that he does not belong in the NHL and does not pass the eye test. There’s some battle worth fighting but this is one you shouldn’t. He’ll be a weak #6 on a weak team at best for the rest of his (I presume) short carreer.

believe me, you don't. You just like to hate on all things leafs, and you use your lack of understanding of things like underlying numbers to do that

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Rosen has been pretty trash too. I suspect Rosen sent down and Holl our 7th D

Calle Rosen was BY FAR the best defenceman on the Maple Leafs through his first two games.

He's been average the last game but he's been very good and will be the 7th D to start the year.

Babcock has raved about Rosen all preseason.

I don't know what games you've been watching.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Wait, you think he's earned a top 6 role...yet a team with a dire need for RHD is looking to move him? Seems actual NHL guys disagree with you.

This is not a team with a dire need for a RD... As I said before. The Leafs need a top 4 RD, not a bottom pairing RD.

How in the world does Hainsey, Zaitsev, Ozhiganov give the impression that this team is in desperate need of a bottom pairing RD right now? Especially with the way Ozhiganov has been playing early on. It would be nice to maybe get a better guy than Hainsey in the top 4, but that has literally nothing to do with whether or not Carrick is a top 6 defenseman.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

And this helps the Flames... how?

Like I said, upgrades two positions for a relatively low price.

 

[Randy Randerson]

This is not a team with a dire need for a RD... As I said before. The Leafs need a top 4 RD, not a bottom pairing RD.

How in the world does Hainsey, Zaitsev, Ozhiganov give the impression that this team is in desperate need of a bottom pairing RD right now? Especially with the way Ozhiganov has been playing early on. It would be nice to maybe get a better guy than Hainsey in the top 4, but that has literally nothing to do with whether or not Carrick is a top 6 defenseman.

I'd go a step further and say that we need a top pairing RD and we have depth everywhere else. A Tanev/Braun/Petry would be a nice bandaid, but really you want a guy better than that to call the defense complete imo

 

[nturn06]

you need to make an effort to understand them before you comment, science looks like witchcraft to those that don't

I'll disagree. He's limited in skillset but effective

Then you should keep him....

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Calle Rosen was BY FAR the best defenceman on the Maple Leafs through his first two games.

He's been average the last game but he's been very good and will be the 7th D to start the year.

Babcock has raved about Rosen all preseason.

I don't know what games you've been watching.

Why would he be the 7th defenseman and rarely play when he's waiver exempt? I mean Babcock has done crazier things but for a team emphasizing development, I doubt they would do that.

That does not mean Rosen has not earned that job. If he was not waiver exempt, he'd easily be the 7th defenseman.

 

[Liferleafer]

This is not a team with a dire need for a RD... As I said before. The Leafs need a top 4 RD, not a bottom pairing RD.

How in the world does Hainsey, Zaitsev, Ozhiganov give the impression that this team is in desperate need of a bottom pairing RD right now? Especially with the way Ozhiganov has been playing early on. It would be nice to maybe get a better guy than Hainsey in the top 4, but that has literally nothing to do with whether or not Carrick is a top 6 defenseman.

Carrick apparently got beat out for a job on the bottom pair...that says a lot about whether he's a top 6 Dman.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Then you should keep him....

I agree...

for what he's worth in a trade, I'd keep him for depth.

 

[Baksfamous112]

they're not, this is a visual representation of raw data (through the filter of a bell curve to display where he ranks in terms of the echelon of his peers). When I watch him, I don't see a terrible player, I see an effective defender who plays within his limited talents. Polak was our problem, just wait to see how much better the bottom pairing is this year whether its Carrick/Holl/Ozhiganov on the right or Borgman/Rosen/Dermott on the left

believe me, you don't. You just like to hate on all things leafs, and you use your lack of understanding of things like underlying numbers to do that

Then maybe you should write a letter to Dubas and Babcock because they both seem to disagree with you.

When I watch him play, I see a player who makes bad decision with the puck, is too often out of position and has terrible stick position. If he were on the Habs, I would say the same thing. I’m not hating on the Leafs, it has nothing to do with him being a Leafs. I just try to stay realistic whether he’s playing for my team, the ennemie team or any other team.

 

[LeafGrief]

Carrick has some decent underlying tools that make him an NHL hockey player. I'm not particularly enthusiastic about having him on the ice, but I don't think he's particularly awful in a sheltered third pairing role. But I don't want my team to be sheltering a third pairing guy who's not going to reward that sheltering by scoring points or playing on special teams. He can play NHL minutes as a warm body, but you're not going to get a lot out of those minutes and you're going to want a better player in there if you can. For those reasons, I am happy that the Leafs are looking to move on from him. I don't think he has much value, I'm expecting a fifth rounder or so, but would be totally fine with future considerations.

But I do believe that his tools will be enough to keep him in the NHL. I think that he's one of the guys who just needs experience to put it all together and he can eventually top out as a decent #4 guy, which is a solid piece. The problem is, he probably needs a lot of tough NHL minutes where he has plenty of slack to learn as he goes. I think he can be successful if he finds himself somewhere like Ottawa or Detroit where the expectations are that he plays a bunch of minutes and grows into the role. They have to know that they're getting a project with low-moderate upside, but I think there are a few basement dwelling teams that would be happy to take him on at such a low cost.

 

[CraigsList]

Like I said, upgrades two positions for a relatively low price.

What backup goalie do you have that would be an upgrade on Rittich?

Also, Prout is a press box boy, why would we trade for Carrick for essentially double the salary? As minor of a trade this is, it doesn’t make sense at all for us.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Then maybe you should write a letter to Dubas and Babcock because they both seem to disagree with you.

When I watch him play, I see a player who makes bad decision with the puck, is too often out of position and has terrible stick position. If he were on the Habs, I would say the same thing. I’m not hating on the Leafs, it has nothing to do with him being a Leafs. I just try to stay realistic whether he’s playing for my team, the ennemie team or any other team.

haha if he was on the Habs he would be worth Nylander in your eyes, you are one of the most biased posters on this forum in my experience. I know that people don't see their own biases when they don't want to, so I don't know why I'm bothering here

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Why would he be the 7th defenseman and rarely play when he's waiver exempt? I mean Babcock has done crazier things but for a team emphasizing development, I doubt they would do that.

That does not mean Rosen has not earned that job. If he was not waiver exempt, he'd easily be the 7th defenseman.

Rosen has been so much better than Carrick, Borgman, Marincin and to a lesser extent Holl that waivers is irrelevant.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Carrick apparently got beat out for a job on the bottom pair...that says a lot about whether he's a top 6 Dman.

says more about the depth of the bottom end of the Leafs D corps imo. We're deep there and it's probably going to show in us moving someone

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Carrick apparently got beat out for a job on the bottom pair...that says a lot about whether he's a top 6 Dman.

So it's a bad thing the Leafs have strong enough RD depth that we have a top 6 guy as a 7th defenseman? Devastating.

I guess that also means last year Connor Brown was only a 4th liner to start because he was beat out by 9 other forwards, despite coming off of a 20 goal season.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Rosen has been so much better than Carrick, Borgman, Marincin and to a lesser extent Holl that waivers is irrelevant.

Not when it comes to a position where you do not play every day. Do you want to prevent Rosen from getting an opportunity to play every day when he can do so without any risk of losing him? It would be different if it was for a top 6 role, but it's not.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Not when it comes to a position where you do not play every day. Do you want to prevent Rosen from getting an opportunity to play every day when he can do so without any risk of losing him? It would be different if it was for a top 6 role, but it's not.

Right. So why bother have him play in the preseason?

He won a job. He beat out Carrick, Borgman, Marincin and Holl. He should make the team, regardless of his waiver status. Just because Carrick, Marincin and Holl need to go through waivers doesn't mean they should make the team over a guy who was clearly superior this preseason.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

If Rosen is to play the left side, who does he beat out to make the top six or seven?

Zaitsev, Hainsey and now Ozhignokov seem destined to be the top three on right side. I'd rather try to waive Carrick instead of getting a meaningless pick for him. If he is claimed, that team has to keep him on the NHL roster.

 

[branch]

This guy is trash. Maybe he'll return a 4th rounder or something.

 

[FalcorMulch]

Wait, you think he's earned a top 6 role...yet a team with a dire need for RHD is looking to move him? Seems actual NHL guys disagree with you.

We're in dire need of top 4 RD that doesn't mean we need to hold onto every third pairing RD we come across.

 

[FalcorMulch]

Calle Rosen was BY FAR the best defenceman on the Maple Leafs through his first two games.

He's been average the last game but he's been very good and will be the 7th D to start the year.

Babcock has raved about Rosen all preseason.

I don't know what games you've been watching.

Rosen is waiver exempt. That's why he'll be sent down. It will be Dermott and Oz with Holl as the 7th D. Dermott is head and shoulders above all our other third pairing options.

 

[Randy Randerson]

We're in dire need of top 4 RD that doesn't mean we need to hold onto every third pairing RD we come across.

for what he'll return, unless we're looking at waiving him what's the point in not keeping him until the D corps is really set?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Kassian or Caggiula straight up. We have too many NHL forwards and Jerabek has mostly been a bust. I don’t think Carrick would be an upgrade over Bear or Bouchard but another year in the AHL wont hurt Bear (though he’s been really good in camp) and destroying the OHL with Boqvist won’t hurt Bouchard.

When you’re getting soundly outplayed by a 33 year old Jason Garrison on a PTO, you should probably just cut bait and run for the Austrian league or something.

 

[BAM]

Kassian or Caggiula straight up. We have too many NHL forwards and Jerabek has mostly been a bust. I don’t think Carrick would be an upgrade over Bear or Bouchard but another year in the AHL wont hurt Bear (though he’s been really good in camp) and destroying the OHL with Boqvist won’t hurt Bouchard.

When you’re getting soundly outplayed by a 33 year old Jason Garrison on a PTO, you should probably just cut bait and run for the Austrian league or something.

Leafs have enough forward competition as it is, no need for randoms off of the Oilers, if they're moving Carrick it's most likely for a pick