Leaf MVP is Frederick. What say you

Albi34

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Feb 14, 2010
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3-way battle between andersen, marner and rielly imo.
tavares and matthews just below. if matthews played the whole season i might consider him.
 

Buds17

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Nov 29, 2015
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This is where I find judging a team's MVP can become tricky. Is a player a team's MVP based on what they're doing for the team (in which case Andersen is a viable candidate), or what might happen to the team whenever that player is out of the lineup? (which can also speak to a team's depth chart) I'd imagine it's weighted more to the former, which is just, in my view.
 

Leafidelity

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He's one of the best goalies in the world. The position is so voodoo that goalies generally don't get anointed till they have some seasons under their belt.

Freddy is a star. When he's really on his game the Leafs can beat anyone; including Tampa Bay.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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Let's look at it mathematically:

Andersen is worth 27 goals above replacement level*. To match that, any skater would need to be worth 27 goals more than the cascading replacement effect. Marner gets replaced by Nylander who gets replaced by Kapanen who gets replaced by Brown who gets replaced by Ennis. You get it. Next step to consider is that the player getting a point isn't the sole creator of the goal. If you go be average, that means there's 2.67 points per goal, meaning that to match Andersen, Marner needs to produce 72 more points than the replacements to match the amount of goals created from Andersen.

You can also separate the goals assists, which lowers the number a bit. You also have to look at defensive effect, which might change things. There's also Marner's cascading effect, boosting the value of his linemates and pushing good players into easier usage. But any way you slice it, won't come close.

To corroborate that by looking at Evolving Hockey's Goals Above Replacement model for this season, Rielly tops our skaters with 17.5 extra goal differential compared to replacement level. Andersen had 38* by his model, by far the best of any goalie.

He's our MVP and it's not close.

* These are two different models.


Spot on. You can't just look at how important the player is. You have to compare it to what the replacement would be. Most goalies are pretty interchangeable.

That's not the case for Andersen though.

Edit: Sorry about the state of this post before editing. I really need to stop thinking too fast for my writing, and to post before reading it a second time.

hmm.

evolving-hockey GSAA

1.Vasilevsky 30.25
2.Andersen 23.54
3.Bishop 21.86
4.Lehner 19.40
5.Greiss 17.47

And Andy has needed many many more minutes than those others to accumulate that many GSAA.
 

diceman934

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hmm.

evolving-hockey GSAA

1.Vasilevsky 30.25
2.Andersen 23.54
3.Bishop 21.86
4.Lehner 19.40
5.Greiss 17.47

And Andy has needed many many more minutes than those others to accumulate that many GSAA.
We get it you still do not like Freddy. He is our team’s most Valuable Player and it really is not close. I say the Venina will be close but as of right now it is Vasilevsky to lose with Freddy second.

Stats about other goalies in the league have no bearing on our teams MVP as it really is simple they do not play for the Leafs.
 

zeke

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We get it you still do not like Freddy. He is our team’s most Valuable Player and it really is not close. I say the Venina will be close but as of right now it is Vasilevsky to lose with Freddy second.

Stats about other goalies in the league have no bearing on our teams MVP as it really is simple they do not play for the Leafs.

leafs fans are always funny when it comes to goaltending.

can you believe that leaf fans and hockey media were actually calling the likes of Raycroft and Toskala the leafs' MVP at one time?
 

ACC1224

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leafs fans are always funny when it comes to goaltending.

can you believe that leaf fans and hockey media were actually calling the likes of Raycroft and Toskala the leafs' MVP at one time?
This thread is discussing the Leafs this year.
Similar to other Teams, other years are irrelevant.
 
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diceman934

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leafs fans are always funny when it comes to goaltending.

can you believe that leaf fans and hockey media were actually calling the likes of Raycroft and Toskala the leafs' MVP at one time?
Well I was not one of them. I do not remember the hockey Media saying Either were our MVP. Raycroft won games because he Started a lot of game like over 70 Paul Maurice was a young head coach that year.
Poster on here say many things that simply are not based on reality. Like Finn was better then Rielly and we stoled him with our second pick. Well he had bad feet and we drafted him far to high.

I posted I seen Andersen live in Saskatoon and said at the time we have gotten our self our Goalie.

None of this has to do with who is our MVP this year. Without Freddy we would not in the playoffs with our current goalies.
 

ACC1224

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yep, anything that provides any actual perspective is irrelevant.
perspective can be relevant, irrelevant perspective is irrelevant.

Only thing that is relevant is the opinion on the 2018/2019 Leafs.
If some idiot felt Toskala was an myp at one time, why project that on those here today?
 
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The Hanging Jowl

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Personally I'd pick Rielly or Marner. Andersen has been great but I have a feeling it's been so long since we had a goalie that did what he's actually supposed to do, he's somewhat overrated by Leafs fans.
 
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ACC1224

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Personally I'd pick Rielly or Marner. Andersen has been great but I have a feeling it's been so long since we had a goalie that did what he's actually supposed to do, he's somewhat overrated by Leafs fans.
Good picks but I guess it goes to what your definition of MVP is.
To me it's who would be missed the most over a long stretch.
Obviously all would be missed but Andersen would top the list, Rielly 2nd.
 
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The Hanging Jowl

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Good picks but I guess it goes to what your definition of MVP is.
To me it's who would be missed the most over a long stretch.
Obviously all would be missed but Andersen would top the list, Rielly 2nd.

Agreed. But then, shouldn't the Hart and Conn Smythe be perpetually won by a goalie?
 

al secord

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leafs fans are always funny when it comes to goaltending.

can you believe that leaf fans and hockey media were actually calling the likes of Raycroft and Toskala the leafs' MVP at one time?
Some even thought Reimer was better than Andersen.
 
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ACC1224

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Agreed. But then, shouldn't the Hart and Conn Smythe be perpetually won by a goalie?
Interpretation I guess and every situation is different. This is just about the Leafs MVP.
IMO, a Player shouldn't be the league wide MVP unless his team is near the top of the standings.

Some even thought Reimer was better than Andersen.

:laugh:
Now there's some perspective.
 

Nithoniniel

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hmm.

evolving-hockey GSAA

1.Vasilevsky 30.25
2.Andersen 23.54
3.Bishop 21.86
4.Lehner 19.40
5.Greiss 17.47

And Andy has needed many many more minutes than those others to accumulate that many GSAA.
It's 38 on his own website.

As for minutes, we were discussing MVP? Him playing a huge role and providing extra value because of it isn't exactly a negative.
 

MattySnipes

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DflVCBhWkAEPxSr.jpg
 
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