Leaf Fans need to be better...

[TML11]

The facts are:
Toronto has amazing offensive players (if not, one of the best Offensive lineups in the league right now)
Toronto has a great goalie, but a back up that still needs fine tuning and much more experience.
Toronto has a fantastic D man (Reilly) and some good supporting cast members (Gardiner (when he has his head in the game) Dermott (who will be great!), etc.
Toronto NEEDS a strong RH D man.
Toronto NEEDS to make a trade (I still Nylander will be gone), please not Kapanen.
Toronto NEEDS to learn to play with heart and show GRIT, EVERY game (Marner,Kadri, Hyman, Brown, Moore), these guys aren't afraid to lay it all out there when necessary.
Toronto is still a relatively YOUNG team (Matthews, Marner, Kappy, Nylander etc), still need time to learn what it takes to play a full season and win playoff series.
Fans who complain (and I do too) aren't complaining just to complain and make noise, we don't need knee jerk reactions, I would rather read thoughts and opinions that are EVIDENCE backed.
We can have intelligent debates and STILL LOVE our team.

 

[thunder16]

these guys?

• marleau
• gardiner
• hainsey
• horton

A few weeks ago it was reported that the Leafs will have 35 Mill in cap space for next season. Think it was Friedman.

 

[tmlms13]

By some fans who don't realize the way a Cup is won.

President's Trophy winner has only won the Cup 8 times.

I guess that's good then because the Leafs aren't going to win the President's trophy.

 

[egd27]

these guys?

• marleau
• gardiner
• hainsey
• horton

Hortons money doesn’t have to count against the cap so no savings there

Hainsey & Gardiner - all of their cap goes to Marner and their spots need to be replaced

Marleau - IF he agrees to leave, $2M of his cap goes to Marner the rest goes to Matthews and his spot needs to be filled

Kap is getting a raise

Johnsson is getting a raise

Paying Nylander $7m was borderline at best, paying $8m as you suggested would have been idiotic

Edit. Sorry it wasn’t you that suggested $8m it was the poster I initially responded to.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Hortons money doesn’t have to count against the cap so no savings there

Hainsey & Gardiner - all of their cap goes to Marner and their spots need to be replaced

Marleau - IF he agrees to leave, $2M of his cap goes to Marner the rest goes to Matthews and his spot needs to be filled

Kap is getting a raise

Johnsson is getting a raise

Paying Nylander $7m was borderline at best, paying $8m as you suggested would have been idiotic

I said pay him 7 and he will be worth 8 mil aav a few years into his contract, he ended up at "7" ... don't be saying dumb things like that

 

[thunder16]

Hortons money doesn’t have to count against the cap so no savings there

Hainsey & Gardiner - all of their cap goes to Marner and their spots need to be replaced

Marleau - IF he agrees to leave, $2M of his cap goes to Marner the rest goes to Matthews and his spot needs to be filled

Kap is getting a raise

Johnsson is getting a raise

Paying Nylander $7m was borderline at best, paying $8m as you suggested would have been idiotic

Edit. Sorry it wasn’t you that suggested $8m it was the poster I initially responded to.

It was meant to be sarcastic because so many people are complaining about it.

 

[Liminality]

Hortons money doesn’t have to count against the cap so no savings there

Hainsey & Gardiner - all of their cap goes to Marner and their spots need to be replaced

Marleau - IF he agrees to leave, $2M of his cap goes to Marner the rest goes to Matthews and his spot needs to be filled

Kap is getting a raise

Johnsson is getting a raise

Paying Nylander $7m was borderline at best, paying $8m as you suggested would have been idiotic

Edit. Sorry it wasn’t you that suggested $8m it was the poster I initially responded to.

Just a rough take. The defense sucks for the year but that gets fixed once Marleau goes. I'm sure the people running the cap are much smarter than I am and know how to save enough money if the team has to.

 

[Thread The Needle]

Legit thought this was going to be about the morgue/SBA.

 

[FraumBallard]

Are you sure about the Ponies?

 

[FraumBallard]

Yeah
Hard to not like a Pony.
Touche'

 

[thunder16]

Just a rough take. The defense sucks for the year but that gets fixed once Marleau goes. I'm sure the people running the cap are much smarter than I am and know how to save enough money if the team has to.

I could be wrong but I don' think Johnsson and Kapanen have played enough to merit 7 mill between the two of them yet.

 

[Liminality]

I could be wrong but I don' think Johnsson and Kapanen have played enough to merit 7 mill between the two of them yet.

Even better, was trying for a semi worst case scenario there.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Just a rough take. The defense sucks for the year but that gets fixed once Marleau goes. I'm sure the people running the cap are much smarter than I am and know how to save enough money if the team has to.

I cant see that defence taking us anywhere... Rosen is NOT a top 4 guy

 

[lebdafor norris]

Just a rough take. The defense sucks for the year but that gets fixed once Marleau goes. I'm sure the people running the cap are much smarter than I am and know how to save enough money if the team has to.

Transition is the weakest part of Zaitsev's game and the little time I've watched Rosen play suggest his not very good at it either, having a 2nd pairing that can't rush/pass the puck out of the blue line will likely result in a shot galore for the opposing team. Considering the Leafs shortage of Dmen who are capable of both moving the puck and handling top 4 minutes, it might be best to split Dermott and Rielly and have them be the anchor of their respective pairs.

Also, I cant imagine Kap making that much unless he signs for a longer term, if the Leafs were to bridge him Max Domi's 2 year, 3.15 AAV will probably be a close comparable. AJ will likely gets a similar contract to Brown + inflation.

 

[Bluelines]

Transition is the weakest part of Zaitsev's game and the little time I've watched Rosen play suggest his not very good at it either, having a 2nd pairing that can't rush/pass the puck out of the blue line will likely result in a shot galore for the opposing team. Considering the Leafs shortage of Dmen who are capable of both moving the puck and handling top 4 minutes, it might be best to split Dermott and Rielly and have them be the anchor of their respective pairs.

Also, I cant imagine Kap making that much unless he signs for a longer term, if the Leafs were to bridge him Max Domi's 2 year, 3.15 AAV will probably be a close comparable. AJ will likely gets a similar contract to Brown + inflation.

Zaitsev's game in the past was not playing shutdown defence. When you see him playing oversea's he is a rushing d-man, much like Jake is. Very fast, very skilled on the offensive side of the puck. Zait's actually has a huge offensive upside that we are not using right now because IMO his current job is to learn defence and to sit back and let Jake do what Jake is great at. I think, and this is only my opinion. the Leafs are forcing Zaitsev to become a more complete D-Man, much like they did with Morgan a few years ago, they didn't give Morgan any PP time, gave him boatloads of PK time, gave him tough defensive match ups and now this year they have let him lose on the world. The Leafs clearly (again my opinion) have a strategy to make sure all players who come up through the farm system or are signed out of Europe are complete 2 way players, Kappy, Johnson, go down the list they have all had to pay their due's on the farm and on the big team playing PK.

I think (again my opinion) what we see in Zaitsev is the Leafs developing Z into a complete player, sacrificing the scoring glory this year, so next year and the years after he is an impact player.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I could be wrong but I don' think Johnsson and Kapanen have played enough to merit 7 mill between the two of them yet.

But they’re “young” which means they’ll “get better”, which apparently means we have to pay them based on how good they’ll hopefully be, not what they’ve proven to be. That’s what we apparently had to do with Nylander.

Granted, no other team in the league has to do that. But according to leaf fans on HFBoards... it is just how it’s done.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I said pay him 7 and he will be worth 8 mil aav a few years into his contract, he ended up at "7" ... don't be saying dumb things like that

Ehlers and Pastrnak were paid based on what they were, not on what they hoped they would become. Both of those players will also (lol) “get better”.

Why is it just the leafs that have to do this stupid shit? Other teams gm’s don’t seem to have problems giving out reasonable contracts. Why can’t our gm be like that?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Ehlers and Pastrnak were paid based on what they were, not on what they hoped they would become. Both of those players will also (lol) “get better”.

Why is it just the leafs that have to do this stupid ****? Other teams gm’s don’t seem to have problems giving out reasonable contracts. Why can’t our gm be like that?

I'm sure all agents use future potential as a negotiating point with offensively gifted players, would be dumb not to.

 

[Luminiferous]

Thread is lame and preachy. Everyone can speak for themselves. Go roll a fatty, while the rest of us whine.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I'm sure all agents use future potential as a negotiating point with offensively gifted players, would be dumb not to.

Seems Toronto paid more for “potential” than the Jets did with Ehlers it Boston did with Pastrnak. Dubas got hosed.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Seems Toronto paid more for “potential” than the Jets did with Ehlers it Boston did with Pastrnak. Dubas got hosed.

Everything was aligned perfectly for Nylander to negotiate for max money, the same thing is going to happen with Marner/Matthews this summer. Kappy, Johnsson, Gardiner, etc will get shafted

 

[Hockey Crazy]

This is not a knee-jerk reaction to tonight and definitely not directed at all fans because we have some good insights on a nightly basis.

I will also give us some slack for being multiple decades without a Cup but not a lot of slack.

There are 2 Phases to Winning a Cup

Phase 1 - Outpoint Enough Teams to Get Into the Post Season

Wins happen. Losses happen. Streaks happen.

The only thing the regular season is good for is for getting a post season ticket and perhaps home ice advantage.

That's it. How well we play against Florida in December has NO impact on how we would play against Boston in a 7 game series.

Pay attention but watch it with a Jamaican attitude of "No Problem." We have enough skill to outpoint enough teams in the NHL.

Phase 2 - Win 4 Playoff Series

We aren't there yet. We can speculate as to the type of team we want to have when we get there.

But who is streaking positive, who is "gelling", who has "figured it out", whatever team streak we are on.... throw it out the window.

Drop the puck and go for it. You just have to hope we did our team diligence at the trade deadline.


So.... relax.

Totally agree but you're preaching to the choir. The people saying these things are not going to listen...

 

[Menzinger]

Zaitsev's game in the past was not playing shutdown defence. When you see him playing oversea's he is a rushing d-man, much like Jake is. Very fast, very skilled on the offensive side of the puck. Zait's actually has a huge offensive upside that we are not using right now because IMO his current job is to learn defence and to sit back and let Jake do what Jake is great at. I think, and this is only my opinion. the Leafs are forcing Zaitsev to become a more complete D-Man, much like they did with Morgan a few years ago, they didn't give Morgan any PP time, gave him boatloads of PK time, gave him tough defensive match ups and now this year they have let him lose on the world. The Leafs clearly (again my opinion) have a strategy to make sure all players who come up through the farm system or are signed out of Europe are complete 2 way players, Kappy, Johnson, go down the list they have all had to pay their due's on the farm and on the big team playing PK.

I think (again my opinion) what we see in Zaitsev is the Leafs developing Z into a complete player, sacrificing the scoring glory this year, so next year and the years after he is an impact player.

Until he figures out how to clear the puck from the zone without icing, I think the criticisms will follow.

With his NTC about to kick in it’s going to be very interesting to see how high Dubas is on him

 

[Sniper99]

Thread is lame and preachy. Everyone can speak for themselves. Go roll a fatty, while the rest of us whine.

Those that constantly whine might want to look into your advice more.

 

[LeafFever]

Ehlers and Pastrnak were paid based on what they were, not on what they hoped they would become. Both of those players will also (lol) “get better”.

Why is it just the leafs that have to do this stupid ****? Other teams gm’s don’t seem to have problems giving out reasonable contracts. Why can’t our gm be like that?

That's simply not true. The 3's have been given to you.