LD Bowen Byram - Vancouver Giants, WHL (2019, 4th, COL)

[CanadienShark]

I really liked Soderstrom's game, but he wasn't worth the 4th pick; honestly preferred Dach or Turcotte at 4, alas Dach wasn't available. I think ByramCh will come good, but no sense in him struggling this year for 9 games. I think Heinola and Bjornfot will be good especially the former, but have very difficult times this season.

Agreed. Some players take some time to develop. Byram has a really high ceiling. I could see him stepping into a top 4 role next season. Chychrun for example made the NHL at 18 as a mid 1st pick, but isn't really special. I'd take 2-3 d-men in his draft before him and it's a weak draft.

 

[Siludin]

It would probably have been better for Chychrun if he played one more year of junior at least.

He looks solid now, but junior affords you to work on a level of dynamicism that the NHL does not, and it's probably the latest period in your career where you can dominate and really work on your confidence in executing advanced skill plays in real game circumstances without risking too much playing time (Byram will get 30 minutes a game this year no doubt). Jumping up to pro too early sometimes can be stifling to creativity if there are better opportunities for more playing time available.

 

[Zaddy]

I really doubt that Söderström plays more than 9 games he just can't get icetime in Arizona with their depth of Dmen.

Heinola is really only going to play because the Jets, for 3 different reasons lost 3 of their top 4 Dmen from last year.

Björnfot is a great story and I liked him at #10 for the Canucks but he also might have the highest floor and lowest ceiling of all 4 guys mentioned.

Also LA is really desperate for Dmen, after doughty there is a huge drop off to Martinez then....

The Avs have more Dmen blocking Bryam than anything else plus they are already going to integrate Makar with top 4 MPG.

It's more situational than any long term assessment, Byram still remains the best prospect among the 4 and easily.

See, this is exactly the type of comment that I have a huge issue with. That Byram is "easily" the best prospect. On what basis is this claim made? I seriously question how much anyone making this comment have actual seen of the other d-men in this draft to make such a statement. It is fine to be really high on Byram, but I don't think anyone should make statements like that if they haven't also seen extensive footage on the other guys. To illustrate: if I asked you, would you have the knowledge to break down Heinola, Söderström, Björnfot and even Cam York's games in detail for me? Or not?

Furthermore, for my money, and I said this pre-draft, York is the best passer in the entire draft, Söderström is the smartest player in the entire draft, certainly among defensemen and then you have Heinola who played top4 minutes against men and put up points (more than Heiskanen in his draft year for instance) and played solid two-way hockey. Söderström also did really well in top4 minutes against men in SHL. I don't know why people look so lightly at facts like these. Byram put up a bunch of points playing as a 4th forward against boys. Not saying his offensive game isn't impressive, but how exactly is him scoring points in juniors more impressive than 17 year old guys playing solid hockey in top4 minutes in two of the toughest leagues in the world?

Another issue I have is people, such as yourself, claiming that Byram is a future great all around #1D. Again on what basis is this made? And do you realize how extremely difficult and few and far between of all D prospects who manage to become a #1D? It may be the toughest role to play in the entire NHL. People saying with certainty that Byram will be that are getting carried away.

 

[Goulet17]

See, this is exactly the type of comment that I have a huge issue with. That Byram is "easily" the best prospect. On what basis is this claim made? I seriously question how much anyone making this comment have actual seen of the other d-men in this draft to make such a statement. It is fine to be really high on Byram, but I don't think anyone should make statements like that if they haven't also seen extensive footage on the other guys. To illustrate: if I asked you, would you have the knowledge to break down Heinola, Söderström, Björnfot and even Cam York's games in detail for me? Or not?

Furthermore, for my money, and I said this pre-draft, York is the best passer in the entire draft, Söderström is the smartest player in the entire draft, certainly among defensemen and then you have Heinola who played top4 minutes against men and put up points (more than Heiskanen in his draft year for instance) and played solid two-way hockey. Söderström also did really well in top4 minutes against men in SHL. I don't know why people look so lightly at facts like these. Byram put up a bunch of points playing as a 4th forward against boys. Not saying his offensive game isn't impressive, but how exactly is him scoring points in juniors more impressive than 17 year old guys playing solid hockey in top4 minutes in two of the toughest leagues in the world?

Another issue I have is people, such as yourself, claiming that Byram is a future great all around #1D. Again on what basis is this made? And do you realize how extremely difficult and few and far between of all D prospects who manage to become a #1D? It may be the toughest role to play in the entire NHL. People saying with certainty that Byram will be that are getting carried away.

I think you have made your position very clear for the past several months. Paraphrasing what I have read , you believe that Byram is overrated and not an elite prospect. You may be correct, only time will tell.

But I will say that the amount of energy that you are expending on the subject strikes me as odd. It seems like a very personal issue to you.

 

[wetcoast]

See, this is exactly the type of comment that I have a huge issue with. That Byram is "easily" the best prospect. On what basis is this claim made? I seriously question how much anyone making this comment have actual seen of the other d-men in this draft to make such a statement. It is fine to be really high on Byram, but I don't think anyone should make statements like that if they haven't also seen extensive footage on the other guys. To illustrate: if I asked you, would you have the knowledge to break down Heinola, Söderström, Björnfot and even Cam York's games in detail for me? Or not?

Furthermore, for my money, and I said this pre-draft, York is the best passer in the entire draft, Söderström is the smartest player in the entire draft, certainly among defensemen and then you have Heinola who played top4 minutes against men and put up points (more than Heiskanen in his draft year for instance) and played solid two-way hockey. Söderström also did really well in top4 minutes against men in SHL. I don't know why people look so lightly at facts like these. Byram put up a bunch of points playing as a 4th forward against boys. Not saying his offensive game isn't impressive, but how exactly is him scoring points in juniors more impressive than 17 year old guys playing solid hockey in top4 minutes in two of the toughest leagues in the world?

Another issue I have is people, such as yourself, claiming that Byram is a future great all around #1D. Again on what basis is this made? And do you realize how extremely difficult and few and far between of all D prospects who manage to become a #1D? It may be the toughest role to play in the entire NHL. People saying with certainty that Byram will be that are getting carried away.

Nothing is ever certain until all 4 players play out their careers as everything is based on projection.

Also dont take my word on it take the scouts we all had Bryam as the consensus best Dman prospect available.

Also this playing with men versus a 4th forward argument is really weak.

Byram dominated his league and is also good defensively he isn't and Evan Bouchard type of prospect who is mainly touted for his offense.

Time will tell but Byram simply brings the best package right now and scouts agreed.

 

[lomiller1]

True, but Byram, to me, doesn't even excel at the medium-range passes or any type of passing to kickstart the offense, which still is what you see far more in the NHL than guys skating the puck up. His outlet passing as a whole is very underwhelming to me for a guy that supposedly is a great all-around D and #1D in the making. He takes too long to make decisions, which both limits his options and makes the likelihood of him hitting that pass far lower than it could've been. Honestly I think that's probably a big reason why he loves rushing the puck because that takes that type of quick thinking out of the equation and he can just rely on his tools. Similar to Nurse who is great at rushing the puck up the ice and entering the zone, but is not a very good passer at all. Difference between those two of course is that Byram actually knows what to do in the offensive zone with the puck on his stick, Nurse does not, although Nurse skating is superior so he can more easily make those types of rushes.

I worry about him being like Zach Bogosian. Able to overwhelm teenagers in the CHL with raw talent, but struggles with reads coming out of his own zone held him back when he got to the NHL. Size could work against Byram the way it did Bogosian as well. Bogo has repeatedly been jammed in the role of a defensive D-man when he’s really most effective jumping into the play offensively.

With Byram it’s more a case of it being difficult to see if he has that quick decision making ability coming out of his own zone. He may actually be fine, but just doesn’t need to do it playing in the CHL so he hasn’t developed in that direction yet. He clearly has a ton of talent though.

Heinola is really only going to play because the Jets, for 3 different reasons lost 3 of their top 4 Dmen from last year.

Heinola has been playing the left side, other than Chiarot the guys the Jets lost were RHD. He’d have been deserving of time last year as well, and would arguably have been the second best LHD in camp.

He can play in the NHL right now IMO, he processes information really quickly and good quick decisions and accurate passes exiting the zone which IMO is the core of what a modern NHL D-man needs to do. Other than Morrissey he’s been among the best best D-men in the Jets training camp and preseason. (Niku was really good before getting injured and Pionk had a surprisingly good camp) Personally, though, I’d send Heinola back Finland for asset management purposes. He'll see a lot of NHL time even if he goes to the AHL and I'd rather have his RFA years start counting at 19 or 20 rather than 18.

 

[Zaddy]

I think you have made your position very clear for the past several months. Paraphrasing what I have read , you believe that Byram is overrated and not an elite prospect. You may be correct, only time will tell.

But I will say that the amount of energy that you are expending on the subject strikes me as odd. It seems like a very personal issue to you.

Or I am just bored and enjoy discussing hockey?

I feel like this discussion is pretty relevant too considering we've now all gotten to see what these guys looked like in camp and against something similar to NHL competition.

I know people probably hate that I am posting so much on the subject and yes I probably repeat myself a lot, but again this is a discussion board, it's what it's for, no?

And no, it's not personal, but there's a couple of key guys every draft that I zoom in on and become quite passionate about one way or the other, whether it's me supporting them believing they're underrated, or vice versa. Byram, along with Podkolzin and Cozens are three guys I believe were overhyped (and I've watched a ton of footage on all three, so it's not like it's unfounded or just some irrational dislike for them) in the 2019 draft, so naturally I will post a lot on those guys.

Nothing is ever certain until all 4 players play out their careers as everything is based on projection.

Also dont take my word on it take the scouts we all had Bryam as the consensus best Dman prospect available.

Also this playing with men versus a 4th forward argument is really weak.

Byram dominated his league and is also good defensively he isn't and Evan Bouchard type of prospect who is mainly touted for his offense.

Time will tell but Byram simply brings the best package right now and scouts agreed.

Here is where we disagree. I have never understood where this idea that he's good defensively comes from. The game tape doesn't support that notion. And I call him a 4th forward because that is literally how he plays, in every zone and even including the power play (where he is stationed not as the QB but on the half-wall). That's a big part of the reason why he put up so many points. He's not a complete player by any means. He excels offensively, but there's many other prospects who are way better than him in other aspects of the game.

 

[jj cale]

Or I am just bored and enjoy discussing hockey?

I feel like this discussion is pretty relevant too considering we've now all gotten to see what these guys looked like in camp and against something similar to NHL competition.

I know people probably hate that I am posting so much on the subject and yes I probably repeat myself a lot, but again this is a discussion board, it's what it's for, no?

And no, it's not personal, but there's a couple of key guys every draft that I zoom in on and become quite passionate about one way or the other, whether it's me supporting them believing they're underrated, or vice versa. Byram, along with Podkolzin and Cozens are three guys I believe were overhyped (and I've watched a ton of footage on all three, so it's not like it's unfounded or just some irrational dislike for them) in the 2019 draft, so naturally I will post a lot on those guys.


Here is where we disagree. I have never understood where this idea that he's good defensively comes from. The game tape doesn't support that notion. And I call him a 4th forward because that is literally how he plays, in every zone and even including the power play (where he is stationed not as the QB but on the half-wall). That's a big part of the reason why he put up so many points. He's not a complete player by any means. He excels offensively, but there's many other prospects who are way better than him in other aspects of the game.

I don't have a problem with your opinion of him as a player, it is what you have formed based on your viewings of him and you may end up being correct, who knows? When posters have a clear agenda and look to just slag a guy because of personal reasons(usually on nationality and team fan bullshit) then it is a bore but I don't get a sense of that from you.

 

[Curufinwe]

Come on, just because he didn’t make the team his first year he’s not as great of a prospect? Many highly touted defensemen do not make their respective teams their draft year. Makar is arguably the best defensive prospect in the world and he was not nearly as good as Byram is now when he was drafted. Byram will be fine and will be a top 4 d man for us next season.

He's a bust just like Provorov. Sorry.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Very different start of the season for Bowen. 6 games, only 1 goal scored (albeit 5 assists).
is -3, outside his 1st game where he had 9 sog, he has only 10 sog in last 5 games.
Bowen is 3rd in defensemen scoring in his team, behind Seth Bafaro and Dylan Plouffe

- 2 min for unsportsmanlike conduct + 2 min for slashing & 2 min for roughing penalty
- 5 min fighting major penalty
- 4 x 2 min minor penalties
- leads his team with 19 penalty minutes

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Hmm... i thought that was his first fight of his career last night, i was wrong. It was his 5th fight in the WHL
- also he has 2 x 15 min game misconduct (hit to the head) penalties, 2 x 12 min game misconduct penalties from previous years

 

[DuklaNation]

Some comments here are a joke. Any experienced hockey fan should see that Byram has the most offensive upside of the dmen taken in the 2019 draft. Dmen mature at the different rates, this kid was only at 18, 3 months old in training camp. Even Scott Niedermayer would have trouble cracking rosters these days at that age. Its better to spend your D+1 year maturing mentally and physically outside of the NHL.

 

[GJB]

Very different start of the season for Bowen. 6 games, only 1 goal scored (albeit 5 assists).
is -3, outside his 1st game where he had 9 sog, he has only 10 sog in last 5 games.
Bowen is 3rd in defensemen scoring in his team, behind Seth Bafaro and Dylan Plouffe

What is the point of mentioning that when he has also played 2 less games than both of them?

Oh and he is actually tied with Plouffe for 6pts, not that it matters.

 

[Mrb1p]

Very different start of the season for Bowen. 6 games, only 1 goal scored (albeit 5 assists).
is -3, outside his 1st game where he had 9 sog, he has only 10 sog in last 5 games.
Bowen is 3rd in defensemen scoring in his team, behind Seth Bafaro and Dylan Plouffe

- 2 min for unsportsmanlike conduct + 2 min for slashing & 2 min for roughing penalty
- 5 min fighting major penalty
- 4 x 2 min minor penalties
- leads his team with 19 penalty minutes

He had similar stats last year too, he was underwhelming for the first months of the season, then he burned the league.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

He had similar stats last year too, he was underwhelming for the first months of the season, then he burned the league.

Aaa. OK.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

My last previous posts wasn't meant to be negative, observation only. He seems to be hot headed at times, not a good trait (not for me at least) Probably, most of the time not a hot head, does he get easily frustrated? -> taking stupid penalties, making mistakes

 

[Goulet17]

My last previous posts wasn't meant to be negative, observation only. He seems to be hot headed at times, not a good trait (not for me at least) Probably, most of the time not a hot head, does he get easily frustrated? -> taking stupid penalties, making mistakes

From what I have seen, teams are making a concerted effort to target him physically. In the WHL, you have to stand up for yourself IMO, but he can learn to be more disciplined at times as well. It is all a part of the development/learning process as a prospect.

 

[landy92mack29]

My last previous posts wasn't meant to be negative, observation only. He seems to be hot headed at times, not a good trait (not for me at least) Probably, most of the time not a hot head, does he get easily frustrated? -> taking stupid penalties, making mistakes

The 6 minutes against Kelowna was him going after Foote who went after his teammate and his fight last night against PA was after he crushed a Raider and their big DFD went after him. He plays a aggressive style and likes to get under opponents skins which is a good thing as the Avs are a very soft team and will be 10 ply soft if they lose Zadorov in expansion/trade.

 

[NuxFan09]

Needless to say, it was the right move for the Avs to send him back to the WHL. Integrate one rookie at a time into the defense: Makar this year and Byram next year or the year after.

 

[VikingAv]

Needless to say, it was the right move for the Avs to send him back to the WHL. Integrate one rookie at a time into the defense: Makar this year and Byram next year or the year after.

Let's make it the year after and give Timmins the full year next season

 

[NuxFan09]

Let's make it the year after and give Timmins the full year next season

Sounds like a plan! Love the way Colorado's D is shaping up. It's borderline unfair with the guys you have up front.

 

[Gargyn]

Sounds like a plan! Love the way Colorado's D is shaping up. It's borderline unfair with the guys you have up front.

Up front? Pretty think up front, no? MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen and Kadri? Then lots of 3rd liners and 4th liners. Pretty weak farm up front too behind Newhook. Maybe I’m underrating guys but I see them in the bottom third of the league for forwards.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Up front? Pretty think up front, no? MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen and Kadri? Then lots of 3rd liners and 4th liners. Pretty weak farm up front too behind Newhook. Maybe I’m underrating guys but I see them in the bottom third of the league for forwards.

Ya, you're underrating our forwards.

 

[wetcoast]

Ya, you're underrating our forwards.

Pretty much the first thought that I had.

If Newhook turns out to be as good as expected the Avs will be SC contenders for quite a while.

 

[Gargyn]

Ya, you're underrating our forwards.[/QUO

Their second line is KAdri, Donskoi and Burakovsky. That’s probably the worst second line in the league. Their third line is Nieto, JOst and Wilson. That’s definitely the worst third line. So where is this huge amount of talent up front? MacKinnon is a stud as is Rantanen. Landeskog and Kadri are good 2nd line guys.