Lavy, is the clock really ticking?

[hido]

So mad that nothing happened today. A new guy would have had seven weeks to turn it around before the trade deadline. And if he couldn't, then we could start hauling in the rewards of silly season by getting prospects and picks. But just the same old, same old.

 

[Soundgarden]

So mad that nothing happened today. A new guy would have had seven weeks to turn it around before the trade deadline. And if he couldn't, then we could start hauling in the rewards of silly season by getting prospects and picks. But just the same old, same old.

With the news that we're supposedly not looking at a coaching change god help us if we're buying this trade deadline.

 

[GoldOnGold]

Interesting quote re Lavi from Adam Vingan:

 

[hido]

With the news that we're supposedly not looking at a coaching change god help us if we're buying this trade deadline.

I meant that we would be selling Granlund, Smith, or Bonino (Johansen?) for prospects.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Interesting quote re Lavi from Adam Vingan:

I get the frustration as a reporter that he won't answer their questions, but I really couldn't care less that Lavi isn't forthcoming with the media. How much a coach wants to explain himself has no bearing on the quality of their coaching. He was the same way when we were winning and no one cared so I don't see why it matters now that we're losing.

 

[Kat Predator]

Belichick is less forthcoming than a brick wall. No reporter would be dumb enough to say he can't coach football.

 

[Armourboy]

Belichick is less forthcoming than a brick wall. No reporter would be dumb enough to say he can't coach football.

Bellicheck isn't known as a motivator that is weak at X's and O's either though.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Interesting quote re Lavi from Adam Vingan:

Can you send this to me so I can read the whole exchange?

 

[LCPreds]

I get the frustration as a reporter that he won't answer their questions, but I really couldn't care less that Lavi isn't forthcoming with the media. How much a coach wants to explain himself has no bearing on the quality of their coaching. He was the same way when we were winning and no one cared so I don't see why it matters now that we're losing.

Most people aren't up in arms when the coach won't talk about the secret to winning success. I would definitely be interested in what his plans are for improving the PP and PK.

 

[GoldOnGold]

Can you send this to me so I can read the whole exchange?

It's from the comments section on the Athletic, I just took it from reddit.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Most people aren't up in arms when the coach won't talk about the secret to winning success. I would definitely be interested in what his plans are for improving the PP and PK.

I just don't get what the expectation is for him to tell us. He can give us a bunch of empty platitudes but that really doesn't matter. I'd really prefer him no to discuss X's and O's about what he's going to change as all that accomplishes is telling other teams what our plan is. Granted I don't think that there is anything of that ilk for him to talk about but still.

 

[LCPreds]

I just don't get what the expectation is for him to tell us. He can give us a bunch of empty platitudes but that really doesn't matter. I'd really prefer him no to discuss X's and O's about what he's going to change as all that accomplishes is telling other teams what our plan is. Granted I don't think that there is anything of that ilk for him to talk about but still.

Yeah I don't really care either. Was mainly commenting on the difference between the situation when winning vs. losing.

 

[Soundgarden]

I meant that we would be selling Granlund, Smith, or Bonino (Johansen?) for prospects.

That's what I want too, I just hope Poile or the owners take an honest look at the team.

 

[predfan24]

I see this as yet another opportunity for the franchise to prove it has grown up and matured. A serious mature hockey market would not put up with a championship caliber team fumbling and bumbling it's way throughout an entire calendar year without significant changes. This is yet another test to see how far this franchise has come.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

That's what I want too, I just hope Poile or the owners take an honest look at the team.

I ask again though, with most of our roster in its prime (and in "compete now" mode), how does that not make us an even weaker team next year? Are we expecting that Tolvanen, Pitlick, and random free agents are going to be better than Bonino, Smith, and Granlund? I think we're going to be pretty disappointed if so.

 

[Soundgarden]

I ask again though, with most of our roster in its prime (and in "compete now" mode), how does that not make us an even weaker team next year? Are we expecting that Tolvanen, Pitlick, and random free agents are going to be better than Bonino, Smith, and Granlund? I think we're going to be pretty disappointed if so.

With what Granlund has shown us I'd rather Pitlick or Trenin slot in his place right now.
It may sting a little to see the team go through growing pains, but yes, I think we can be a contender while still moving players in and out.
We've seen all of our vets at their best and at their worst, I think if we're selling we're going to have to get used to our young guys playing roles, but the sooner we sell off, the sooner guys like Trenin, Pitlick, and Tolvanen get adjusted to the NHL.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

With what Granlund has shown us I'd rather Pitlick or Trenin slot in his place right now.
It may sting a little to see the team go through growing pains, but yes, I think we can be a contender while still moving players in and out.
We've seen all of our vets at their best and at their worst, I think if we're selling we're going to have to get used to our young guys playing roles, but the sooner we sell off, the sooner guys like Trenin, Pitlick, and Tolvanen get adjusted to the NHL.

That and our cap situation is still pretty respectable... losing Smith and Granlund is $10M of cap space, which could be re-spent elsewhere. Either replacing them or shoring up the blueline somewhat. Anyway, looking at rosters around the league, the differentiator isn't necessarily the player personnel... assuming you spend your cap money and piece together a respectable collection of NHL talent, which we DO have, the most important factor is getting them all to play up to their peak potential, together. Hockey is very much a team game. I don't think changing out complementary depth players would hurt us. It might not help us either. But the absolute biggest gain we can make is in how they are deployed/motivated to succeed for the logo on the front of the jersey, instead of which name is on the back of those jerseys.

That said, I wouldn't entertain moving Bonino. He's one player who is performing up to (or beyond) expectations, and still under contract next season, so he doesn't fit in the conversation like Smith and Granlund do.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

With what Granlund has shown us I'd rather Pitlick or Trenin slot in his place right now.
It may sting a little to see the team go through growing pains, but yes, I think we can be a contender while still moving players in and out.
We've seen all of our vets at their best and at their worst, I think if we're selling we're going to have to get used to our young guys playing roles, but the sooner we sell off, the sooner guys like Trenin, Pitlick, and Tolvanen get adjusted to the NHL.

Granlund, Smith, Bonino are on pace for about 54 goals this season, and that's in a pretty poor year statistically for the first 2. I don't see any way that Trenin, Pitlick, Tolvanen come close to replacing that. This ignores that 2 of those 3 guys are among the most consistent players in terms of effort level on a game-by-game basis, which is a pretty big loss for a very inconsistent team. I'm not advocating keeping everybody (that includes Turris as well), but I think it would be a mistake to just discard all of them with nothing tangible to replace what they can bring.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

That and our cap situation is still pretty respectable... losing Smith and Granlund is $10M of cap space, which could be re-spent elsewhere. Either replacing them or shoring up the blueline somewhat. Anyway, looking at rosters around the league, the differentiator isn't necessarily the player personnel... assuming you spend your cap money and piece together a respectable collection of NHL talent, which we DO have, the most important factor is getting them all to play up to their peak potential, together. Hockey is very much a team game. I don't think changing out complementary depth players would hurt us. It might not help us either. But the absolute biggest gain we can make is in how they are deployed/motivated to succeed for the logo on the front of the jersey, instead of which name is on the back of those jerseys.

That said, I wouldn't entertain moving Bonino. He's one player who is performing up to (or beyond) expectations, and still under contract next season, so he doesn't fit in the conversation like Smith and Granlund do.

I would think shipping out players who don't fit that criticism at all would actually send the opposite message. You want to send a message about motivation and effort level, then you trade Johansen or Forsberg.

 

[Soundgarden]

Granlund, Smith, Bonino are on pace for about 54 goals this season, and that's in a pretty poor year statistically for the first 2. I don't see any way that Trenin, Pitlick, Tolvanen come close to replacing that. This ignores that 2 of those 3 guys are among the most consistent players in terms of effort level on a game-by-game basis, which is a pretty big loss for a very inconsistent team. I'm not advocating keeping everybody (that includes Turris as well), but I think it would be a mistake to just discard all of them with nothing tangible to replace what they can bring.

I think some combination of our prospects in Milwaukee can provide the scoring that Smith and Granlund are providing (.41 and .42 PPG respectively), maybe they're not as good away from the puck but I think they deserve a shot if they're playing well. You never know if young guys are good enough to replace vets until you try them.

With Bonino, we'd be selling high, out of all the players that we should be considering moving he'll give us the best return. Now, does that mean we're going to move all three? Probably not, but I think some combination of Smith, Bonino, Turris and Granlund can/should/will be moved, provided that we're sellers.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I would think shipping out players who don't fit that criticism at all would actually send the opposite message. You want to send a message about motivation and effort level, then you trade Johansen or Forsberg.

It's collective. The whole team is lacking. Or lacking at certain points in a game, at least. Coming out flat, or caving in late, etc. If it was JUST Johansen and Forsberg, and only them, all the time, then sure, trade them. But you know it's more than just them. They may be lower energy players in general than Smith, say. But if everything is going well for the team as a whole, they still help you win more often than he does.

Anyway, Smith and Granlund are UFAs, so they are moving on anyway. There is no message being sent by moving them. They are just being moved for asset recovery reasons. Although I'd entertain re-signing Smith - for the right price. Just you know the UFA price is seldom right.

Our gain in deployment and motivation starts with a coaching change. Past that, changing depth/complementary/impending-UFA players for our prospects or incoming UFA signings is not something that helps OR hinders us, in isolation. The team collective needs to start playing as I described, it transcends any individual players you might name.

 

[101st_fan]

If Poile does decide to sell at the deadline we run into the impact of Lavy's coaching decisions on individual player performance this season. Smith is a perennial 20+ goal scorer when playing in the top 6 ... spending most of the season to date on the 3rd line. Turris is playing all over the lineup yet somehow still putting up decent points per 60 minutes of play but below what we expect for raw numbers. Bonino is outperforming expectations. Granlund is getting his share (and probably then some) of ES time yet not putting up the numbers hoped for.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It's six of one and a half dozen of the other... if coaching hadn't sunk our player performance, we wouldn't be sellers at all. So the question of the market value wouldn't even come up because we'd be hoarding all of our players, even impending UFAs, for our glorious Cup run. But we're in the correlated upside down world of being sellers precisely because individual player performances have been torpedoed. It doesn't really change what we have to do, though. If we're stuck selling Smith or Granlund for 2nd round picks that are like 30% odds of ever becoming legit NHL prospects 5 years from now, it's not much... but it's still better than nothing. Or we sell them for 2021 picks and hope the team is better next year and we can re-convert that currency into better rentals for a newfound glorious Cup run in 2021 maybe, or for buying off Seattle in the expansion draft, whatever. There is still value to be squeezed out of getting something for those players, even in a depressed market.

 

[FossilFndr]

From Poile interview

"I met with [Laviolette] this morning. We had a long talk about lots of different situations going forward. I'm not contemplating making any coaching change at this time."

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

I'm still not over the fact that Poile did not force Lavi to jettison assistants. That's how this works...things go south, assistants get fired/replaced and then if that doesn't work, you're next.