News Article: Larsson on LTIR (6-8 weeks, broken fibula)

[McDNicks17]

I agree completely. It's obvious the way it was explained before was false. This is not something a certain buyout window allows. It's an exception to the general rule. I can see why. If he truly could prove in a court of law that this is the only contract he could sign then it's all that right to work stuff.

Teams will try and get away with anything they can. This appears to be a little loop hole. Obviously legal, just as tax loop holes are legal. Good on Calgary for recognizing it.

It isn’t a loophole or an exception.

The CBA explicitly says it only applies to compliance buyouts and the Stone buyout wasn’t a compliance buyout.

 

[guymez]

I’m curious how the same team but with a 5.5m cap hit instead of a 2.5m cap hit works

It doesnt.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

It isn’t a loophole or an exception.

The CBA explicitly says it only applies to compliance buyouts and the Stone buyout wasn’t a compliance buyout.

Yes. I decided to search myself. No sense slacking on it any longer.

"Teams are permitted to buyout a players contract to obtain a reduced salary cap hit over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The buyout amount is a function of the players age at the time of the buyout, and are as follows:

• 1/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is younger than 26 at the time of the buyout
• 2/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is 26 or older at the time of the buyout

As explained above, the buyout is spread out over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The team still takes a caphit, and the caphit by year is calculated as follows:

1. Multiply the remaining salary (excluding signing bonuses) by the buyout amount (as determined by age) to obtain the total buyout cost
2. Spread the total buyout cost evenly over twice the remaining contract years
3. Determine the savings by subtracting the annual buyout cost from Step 2. by the players salary (excluding signing bonuses)
4. Determine the remaining caphit by subtracting the savings from Step 3. by the players Annual Average Salary (AAV) (including signing bonuses)

The above calculation is performed for each year of the buyout, meaning the buyout caphit is not necessarily the same for each year. It is also possible that the buyout caphit can be negative, meaning the team receives a credit.
Buyout Period

The buyout period begins the later of June 15 or 48 hours after the Stanley Cup Final ends. It concludes on June 30 at 5 pm EST.
Compliance Buyout

During the buyout periods in 2013 and 2014, teams were permitted two compliance buyouts (also known as amnesty buyouts). The formula above is applied to determine the monetary amount paid to the player; however, they do not count against the cap.

Compliance buyouts were only permitted to be executed on a contract that was entered into on or before Sept. 15, 2012. They were also permitted to be performed on a 35-plus contract.

For one season following a compliance buyout, players were not permitted to rejoin the team which performed the buyout (this restriction does not exist for normal buyouts)."

Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps


So its as they said, the Oilers could have signed Sekera the very next minute for whatever they may have agreed to at the time. No need for an investigation. Any team can do it with any player after a buyout.

Interesting. Definitely a way to massage the cap. Oh well, Bear looks pretty damn good!

 

[oobga]

wrong thread

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Yes. I decided to search myself. No sense slacking on it any longer.

"Teams are permitted to buyout a players contract to obtain a reduced salary cap hit over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The buyout amount is a function of the players age at the time of the buyout, and are as follows:

• 1/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is younger than 26 at the time of the buyout
• 2/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is 26 or older at the time of the buyout

As explained above, the buyout is spread out over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The team still takes a caphit, and the caphit by year is calculated as follows:

1. Multiply the remaining salary (excluding signing bonuses) by the buyout amount (as determined by age) to obtain the total buyout cost
2. Spread the total buyout cost evenly over twice the remaining contract years
3. Determine the savings by subtracting the annual buyout cost from Step 2. by the players salary (excluding signing bonuses)
4. Determine the remaining caphit by subtracting the savings from Step 3. by the players Annual Average Salary (AAV) (including signing bonuses)

The above calculation is performed for each year of the buyout, meaning the buyout caphit is not necessarily the same for each year. It is also possible that the buyout caphit can be negative, meaning the team receives a credit.
Buyout Period

The buyout period begins the later of June 15 or 48 hours after the Stanley Cup Final ends. It concludes on June 30 at 5 pm EST.
Compliance Buyout

During the buyout periods in 2013 and 2014, teams were permitted two compliance buyouts (also known as amnesty buyouts). The formula above is applied to determine the monetary amount paid to the player; however, they do not count against the cap.

Compliance buyouts were only permitted to be executed on a contract that was entered into on or before Sept. 15, 2012. They were also permitted to be performed on a 35-plus contract.

For one season following a compliance buyout, players were not permitted to rejoin the team which performed the buyout (this restriction does not exist for normal buyouts)."

Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps


So its as they said, the Oilers could have signed Sekera the very next minute for whatever they may have agreed to at the time. No need for an investigation. Any team can do it with any player after a buyout.

Interesting. Definitely a way to massage the cap. Oh well, Bear looks pretty damn good!

Good thing your on it and the VP of the NHL wasted his time. He should hire you to read all the fine print.

It is considered cap circumvention to buyout and sign a player the next minute. They investigated the Capitals on Orpik and Flames on Stone.

Whether you like it or make up shit about exceptions or not.

And because I have a pretty good idea what your response will be I will hit the ignore button as it’s a waste of time discussing anything with you.

 

[Spawn]

Show your work and the associated numbers with each player.
Once you do that you will see that your math is off.

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (14)
Right wing: James Neal ($5,750,000) - Zack Kassian ($1,950,000) - Josh Archibald ($1,000,000) - Alex Chiasson ($2,150,000) - Tomas Jurco ($750,000)
Centre: Connor McDavid ($12,500,000) - Leon Draisaitl ($8,500,000) - Colby Cave ($675,000) - Gaëtan Haas ($925,000) - Riley Sheahan ($900,000)
Left wing: Joakim Nygård ($925,000) - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins ($6,000,000) - Jujhar Khaira ($1,200,000) - Markus Granlund ($1,300,000)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: Kris Russell ($4,000,000) - Ethan Bear ($720,000) - Matthew Benning ($1,900,000) - Adam Larsson ($4,166,666)
Left: Darnell Nurse ($3,200,000) - Oscar Klefbom ($4,167,000) - Andrej Sekera ($3,000,000) 5.5 cap hit with the buyout below

GOALTENDER (2)
Mikko Koskinen ($4,500,000) - Mike Smith ($2,000,000)

AHL BURIED (2)

Sam Gagner ($2,075,000) - Brandon Manning ($1,175,000)

BUYOUTS (3)
Andrej Sekera ($2,500,000) - Benoit Pouliot ($1,333,333) - Eric Gryba ($300,000)

RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1)
Milan Lucic ($750,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 23
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $81,461,999
Cap Space: $38,001

This is without putting Brodziak on LTIR which would have freed up ~$1M. And now with Larsson on LTIR we've got even more space.

 

[Bangers]

Disagree, and I don't think that's giving enough credit to an apparent plan in place.

First of all getting Smith in here is not incidental to where we stand with D this season.

Smith, more than any other goalie we could attain offers our D ample support. Essentially we now have 3 D back on any dump in and Smith is as comfortable playing the puck forward or out as he is to handing it off to a D on either side, who have more time, and have an easier time moving the puck because any back end that has Smith on it is a pressure 3 scenario, which is REALLY difficult for the opponent forecheck. Somebody is always open. You can't shutdown a goalie that plays the puck this well. You end up hanging back a whole lot. Its really taxing for the forecheckers. Perplexing.

This is the BEST time to bring up our young D and its the very season it should happen. Its never going to be easier for prospect D's to acclimate to NHL speed because the Veteran Smith is able to slow down that pressure and by being back there steady the nerves and start the transitions with poise.

A lot more than people think, in this Tippet scheme were running, hinges on Smith. We'll be a different team anytime he's in the cage.

Not surprising either Smith was running through some schemes in practice yesterday with the defenders. This is a very bright goalie and he understands the game impeccably. Smith is a future coach if he wants it.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Smith looked good in the first game, but he's also 37. How many games do you see him playing at a high level this season?

When Koskinen is playing or Smith has an off night and the team is playing 2 rookies on D, the team is going to get shelled.

We're going to have to hope for more 6 goal games by the Oil.

 

[Soundwave]

People forget pretty quickly now though that the Oilers were playing two rookies on D in 16-17 too -- Nurse had 9 AHL games experience, and Benning had 2 ... lol, Bear and Persson are actually probably more seasoned than the two of them. And the 7th D was Gryba, who actually got quite a few games.

And Gustavsson was awful as the Oilers back up that year too causing Talbot to have to play like 70 games.

I dunno what the split will be this year but 44 Smith-39 Koskinen or something like that I can see.

 

[Cloned]

People forget pretty quickly now though that the Oilers were playing two rookies on D in 16-17 too -- Nurse had 9 AHL games experience, and Benning had 2 ... lol, Bear and Persson are actually probably more seasoned than the two of them. And the 7th D was Gryba, who actually got quite a few games.

And Gustavsson was awful as the Oilers back up that year too causing Talbot to have to play like 70 games.

I dunno what the split will be this year but 44 Smith-39 Koskinen or something like that I can see.

Oilers playing the first ever tie-break 83rd regular season game in the NHL.

 

[Bangers]

People forget pretty quickly now though that the Oilers were playing two rookies on D in 16-17 too -- Nurse had 9 AHL games experience, and Benning had 2 ... lol, Bear and Persson are actually probably more seasoned than the two of them. And the 7th D was Gryba, who actually got quite a few games.

And Gustavsson was awful as the Oilers back up that year too causing Talbot to have to play like 70 games.

I dunno what the split will be this year but 44 Smith-39 Koskinen or something like that I can see.

That team also had a much deeper set of forwards, a full season of pre-injury Sekera and Larsson before his game went to crap.

And Talbot played out of his mind that season.

 

[Soundwave]

That team also had a much deeper set of forwards, a full season of pre-injury Sekera and Larsson before his game went to crap.

And Talbot played out of his mind that season.

Well we don't necessarily need 103 points this year, though it certainly would be nice. Draisaitl, Nurse, RNH, and even McDavid are better players today than back then too. Probably Benning as well, lol.

3 years ago Nurse was more the equivalent of what Bear is now, but today he's probably closer to Sekera.

 

[Fourier]

Yes. I decided to search myself. No sense slacking on it any longer.

"Teams are permitted to buyout a players contract to obtain a reduced salary cap hit over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The buyout amount is a function of the players age at the time of the buyout, and are as follows:

• 1/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is younger than 26 at the time of the buyout
• 2/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is 26 or older at the time of the buyout

As explained above, the buyout is spread out over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The team still takes a caphit, and the caphit by year is calculated as follows:

1. Multiply the remaining salary (excluding signing bonuses) by the buyout amount (as determined by age) to obtain the total buyout cost
2. Spread the total buyout cost evenly over twice the remaining contract years
3. Determine the savings by subtracting the annual buyout cost from Step 2. by the players salary (excluding signing bonuses)
4. Determine the remaining caphit by subtracting the savings from Step 3. by the players Annual Average Salary (AAV) (including signing bonuses)

The above calculation is performed for each year of the buyout, meaning the buyout caphit is not necessarily the same for each year. It is also possible that the buyout caphit can be negative, meaning the team receives a credit.
Buyout Period

The buyout period begins the later of June 15 or 48 hours after the Stanley Cup Final ends. It concludes on June 30 at 5 pm EST.
Compliance Buyout

During the buyout periods in 2013 and 2014, teams were permitted two compliance buyouts (also known as amnesty buyouts). The formula above is applied to determine the monetary amount paid to the player; however, they do not count against the cap.

Compliance buyouts were only permitted to be executed on a contract that was entered into on or before Sept. 15, 2012. They were also permitted to be performed on a 35-plus contract.

For one season following a compliance buyout, players were not permitted to rejoin the team which performed the buyout (this restriction does not exist for normal buyouts)."

Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps


So its as they said, the Oilers could have signed Sekera the very next minute for whatever they may have agreed to at the time. No need for an investigation. Any team can do it with any player after a buyout.

Interesting. Definitely a way to massage the cap. Oh well, Bear looks pretty damn good!

The problem with your interpretation is that you don't actually have to violate any specific rule for it to be cap circumvention. There are clauses that allow the NHL to act if the spirit of the CBA is violated. This was the case with the weasel deals that teams were signing to reduce the cap. Kovy's deal for example did not violate any explicit rule in the CAB. I would be shocked if the NHL did not jump on a contract that was bought out and the player immediately resigned since this would clearly violate the spirit of the cap. And in this case, if the deal was signed immediately one could even argue that this was a form of "renegotiation" which is explicitly ruled out in the CBA.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The problem with your interpretation is that you don't actually have to violate any specific rule for it to be cap circumvention. There are clauses that allow the NHL to act if the spirit of the CBA is violated. This was the case with the weasel deals that teams were signing to reduce the cap. Kovy's deal for example did not violate any explicit rule in the CAB. I would be shocked if the NHL did not jump on a contract that was bought out and the player immediately resigned since this would clearly violate the spirit of the cap. And in this case, if the deal was signed immediately one could even argue that this was a form of "renegotiation" which is explicitly ruled out in the CBA.

Interesting. I can see why a few minutes after would matter. A very solid case can be made for what you suggest.

So the printed word or general rule is that there can be no cap circumvention due to buyouts unless it is the compliant one (2013-14).

Then the spirit of the cap must be taken in to consideration...

So they are sort of making things up as they go along. A case by case approach. I can certainly see why so many were upset. The league can pick and choose. That's never a good thing. Subjectivism is the enemy of clarity.

It does sound as if it is really hard to prove.

 

[Fourier]

Interesting. I can see why a few minutes after would matter. A very solid case can be made for what you suggest.

So the printed word or general rule is that there can be no cap circumvention due to buyouts unless it is the compliant one (2013-14).

Then the spirit of the cap must be taken in to consideration...

So they are sort of making things up as they go along. A case by case approach. I can certainly see why so many were upset. The league can pick and choose. That's never a good thing. Subjectivism is the enemy of clarity.

It does sound as if it is really hard to prove.

The CBA is a complex document. Like any legal document of this type there will be aspects that are not explicitly addressed. The solution is to allow for some mechanism to protect the spirit of the CBA when ambiguity arises. Typically the League has been quite lenient with these found "loopholes". But this one would be very problematic. I think the League would want some assurance that both parties acted in good faith before approving a contract like Stones. Even then I was surprised they let it go because it does create the "making it up as you go" impression.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Smith looked good in the first game, but he's also 37. How many games do you see him playing at a high level this season?

When Koskinen is playing or Smith has an off night and the team is playing 2 rookies on D, the team is going to get shelled.

We're going to have to hope for more 6 goal games by the Oil.

Any of our rookies D's are better than Bergeron who we had playing with Chris Pronger a lot of the time in 05-06.

Nurse and Klef have come into their own and can carry people. We'll see what Persson has. Benning is better than most people make him out to be and so is Russel.

Theres still enough solidity to go around. The team is going to need some goals because mistakes are likely, but the kind of young stud D we are playing also contribute offensively.

Last night was indication of a team that could fly, that could expose anybody with lightning transition and counters. That's an interesting look as well, that we haven't seen in awhile and on a considerable amount of nights offensively we might be able to overwhelm some teams, even with Koski in net.

I mean we're having this convo as the Oilers sit in first place in division and have just beat two divisional foes and in a fashion that illustrates that we have some of the very best game deciding players in the world. Don't count those guys ability out to manufacture a goal in critical and deciding minutes. All this team has to do most nights is just hang around, just be in striking distance.

The Oilers, under Tippet, are now a dangerous team to play. We're going to give other clubs fits on a lot of nights. This was one of the most motivated games the Kings have played in years, and we beat them. just saying.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The CBA is a complex document. Like any legal document of this type there will be aspects that are not explicitly addressed. The solution is to allow for some mechanism to protect the spirit of the CBA when ambiguity arises. Typically the League has been quite lenient with these found "loopholes". But this one would be very problematic. I think the League would want some assurance that both parties acted in good faith before approving a contract like Stones. Even then I was surprised they let it go because it does create the "making it up as you go" impression.

I was surprised they let the Orpik one go as that one was clearly engineered to get Orpik back at a lower salary rate. I did read Bettman was incensed over the trade with Colorado that brought Orpik back to Washington and warned the teams that while the situation was not specifically covered in the CBA, the spirit of cap circumvention may have been broken and that another similar deal may not be allowed in the future. (He was also pissed that Vegas used cap space to sign and trade Tatar with retained salary)

With the Stone investigation Daly said it was clear there was no intent on either party to circle back when Stone was bought out, and it was Stones inability to find a contract elsewhere combined with the much later injury to Valimaki and Calgary not being able to find a suitable D so they let that one go.

Either way, the theory that the Oilers could have created a side deal with Sekera to buy him out and resign him 1 minute later to $1M is nonsensical as the league would probably have not validated the contract, and Sekera has an agent who isn't stupid, and would have shopped him elsewhere, as he did, and got double the money that was suggested Sekera "would have" signed for.

In the end, when we as fans state a player or team could have done this or that in a contract negotiation, we are talking out of our asses because we have no clue as to the state of the negotiation including other offers, player preferences, team dynamics, and a million other variables that are almost always unpublished.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Any of our rookies D's are better than Bergeron who we had playing with Chris Pronger a lot of the time in 05-06.

Nurse and Klef have come into their own and can carry people. We'll see what Persson has. Benning is better than most people make him out to be and so is Russel.

Theres still enough solidity to go around. The team is going to need some goals because mistakes are likely, but the kind of young stud D we are playing also contribute offensively.

Last night was indication of a team that could fly, that could expose anybody with lightning transition and counters. That's an interesting look as well, that we haven't seen in awhile and on a considerable amount of nights offensively we might be able to overwhelm some teams, even with Koski in net.

I mean we're having this convo as the Oilers sit in first place in division and have just beat two divisional foes and in a fashion that illustrates that we have some of the very best game deciding players in the world. Don't count those guys ability out to manufacture a goal in critical and deciding minutes. All this team has to do most nights is just hang around, just be in striking distance.

The Oilers, under Tippet, are now a dangerous team to play. We're going to give other clubs fits on a lot of nights. This was one of the most motivated games the Kings have played in years, and we beat them. just saying.

Little quick on the hype train. This team has a long way to go to show it can play and win against top opposition. Full marks for two home wins however the first they were outplayed quite significantly and last night's rollercoaster was against a last year lottery team in significant transition. In both the Oil show solid resiliency to face adversity and not wilt like a 74 Pinto as they've done forever.

Two wins on the board for a soft schedule start is a big deal. Tippett is instilling strong accountability and commitment to change the mental aspect of a losing culture; better defensive zone structure while on boarding a slew of inexperienced players. He'll need every bit of his coaching experience and savvy in-game decision making to keep this team believing, competing and staying in games.

Winning early against two weak sisters which quite likely roll differently in past years is a good start. But premature until we see better competition and ten to fifteen games of road and home play.

For the record, Pronger is a first ballot HOFer who could play with a pylon as a reasonable d partner. He was that good. Bergeron though was a ten year NHL defender and this year's inexperienced d-men are two NHL games in on the most difficult position to play, one which many experts feels requires 200-300 NHL games to know what you have in defenseman. I like the young guys a fair bit but drawing conclusions after two real games is fool's gold.

 

[Bangers]

Any of our rookies D's are better than Bergeron who we had playing with Chris Pronger a lot of the time in 05-06.

Nurse and Klef have come into their own and can carry people. We'll see what Persson has. Benning is better than most people make him out to be and so is Russel.

Theres still enough solidity to go around. The team is going to need some goals because mistakes are likely, but the kind of young stud D we are playing also contribute offensively.

Last night was indication of a team that could fly, that could expose anybody with lightning transition and counters. That's an interesting look as well, that we haven't seen in awhile and on a considerable amount of nights offensively we might be able to overwhelm some teams, even with Koski in net.

I mean we're having this convo as the Oilers sit in first place in division and have just beat two divisional foes and in a fashion that illustrates that we have some of the very best game deciding players in the world. Don't count those guys ability out to manufacture a goal in critical and deciding minutes. All this team has to do most nights is just hang around, just be in striking distance.

The Oilers, under Tippet, are now a dangerous team to play. We're going to give other clubs fits on a lot of nights. This was one of the most motivated games the Kings have played in years, and we beat them. just saying.

So, we're just missing a Chris Pronger? I'd agree

I do like the speed the Oilers have been playing with, and I'm not sure if it's Smith, not having Lucic or Tippett's coaching, but I do agree that the transitions out of the D zone are waaaaay quicker this season.

That being said, it's 2 games, and we've given up 7 goals in 2 games (including 5 goals to a team that was an abject mess last season) - and that's without playing our tire fire backup who is likely to play 30+ games this season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Little quick on the hype train. This team has a long way to go to show it can play and win against top opposition. Full marks for two home wins however the first they were outplayed quite significantly and last night's rollercoaster was against a last year lottery team in significant transition. In both the Oil show solid resiliency to face adversity and not wilt like a 74 Pinto as they've done forever.

Two wins on the board for a soft schedule start is a big deal. Tippett is instilling strong accountability and commitment to change the mental aspect of a losing culture; better defensive zone structure while on boarding a slew of inexperienced players. He'll need every bit of his coaching experience and savvy in-game decision making to keep this team believing, competing and staying in games.

Winning early against two weak sisters which quite likely roll differently in past years is a good start. But premature until we see better competition and ten to fifteen games of road and home play.

For the record, Pronger is a first ballot HOFer who could play with a pylon as a reasonable d partner. He was that good. Bergeron though was a ten year NHL defender and this year's inexperienced d-men are two NHL games in on the most difficult position to play, one which many experts feels requires 200-300 NHL games to know what you have in defenseman. I like the young guys a fair bit but drawing conclusions after two real games is fool's gold.

I'm hardly known here for positivity or blanket trust and yet I feel suddenly that the org is in much better hands. With Holland and Tippet its now much more easy to feel the ship is being steered.

This team I expect is making the playoffs.

The first 10 games were critical, for the team to bond, and with its new team mates. But we have management and coaching now that are veterans at this game that are really quite good at what they do.

Really its been amazing what Holland and Tippet have been able to do with a capspace and roster that was so compromised by Chiarelli. I mean in my estimation the Koski, Manning type end moves were even angrily designed subterfuge from the parting Chia bastard. Chiarelli laid landmines in his wake that the next GM was going to have to surmount and yet the offseason additions have been quiet effective, have filled some spots. I'll be happy with this.

Theres plenty of times where I've felt other things about this org.

Finally I don't think of Vancouver as a soft start. I think they will surprise and compete for a wild card spot. These are divisional opponents and still important games. neither team was rolling over, both teams had to be buried still kicking.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The CBA is a complex document. Like any legal document of this type there will be aspects that are not explicitly addressed. The solution is to allow for some mechanism to protect the spirit of the CBA when ambiguity arises. Typically the League has been quite lenient with these found "loopholes". But this one would be very problematic. I think the League would want some assurance that both parties acted in good faith before approving a contract like Stones. Even then I was surprised they let it go because it does create the "making it up as you go" impression.

Yup. You only have to take the time to look to see how they approach that problem.

It's interesting how the NHL uses the innocent before proven guilty approach. It puts the burden of proof on the league to prove collusion, not for the team to prove it did not. Hence the nothing is cap circumvention unless....

It makes one wonder what a team would have to do for a contract to be nullified. That's pretty huge. Taking away a persons contract. One can see the Stone issue because they just claim no one else wanted him. That's taking away his right to work.

It's a pretty shoddy approach in my opinion. More of an honor system than anything. This issue is going to get more common, IMO.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'm hardly known here for positivity or blanket trust and yet I feel suddenly that the org is in much better hands. With Holland and Tippet its now much more easy to feel the ship is being steered.

This team I expect is making the playoffs.

The first 10 games were critical, for the team to bond, and with its new team mates. But we have management and coaching now that are veterans at this game that are really quite good at what they do.

Really its been amazing what Holland and Tippet have been able to do with a capspace and roster that was so compromised by Chiarelli. I mean in my estimation the Koski, Manning type end moves were even angrily designed subterfuge from the parting Chia bastard. Chiarelli laid landmines in his wake that the next GM was going to have to surmount and yet the offseason additions have been quiet effective, have filled some spots. I'll be happy with this.

Theres plenty of times where I've felt other things about this org.

Finally I don't think of Vancouver as a soft start. I think they will surprise and compete for a wild card spot. These are divisional opponents and still important games. neither team was rolling over, both teams had to be buried still kicking.

Vancouver spent heavily in the off season to be a playoff contender. Getting them early, at home, was a good thing and so was the crossbar ping as time expired. I viewed game one as a must win and despite being outplayed for much of it the Oil beat an improved division rival.

Holland is a godsend for this franchise. He's proven that already with the Lucic deal and letting Pool Party sulk in Finland. Coaching hasn't been a weakness with McLellan and future Hall of Famer Hitchcock, it's been a personnel issue created by an overwhelmed Chiarelli. I'd hoped for new blood as a coach but have changed my tune listening and watching Tippett mold the mental approach of this team and the in game management required to stretch a thin roster.

This thread is about Larssen and it is the first, substantive adversity the Oil face this year. He's a 20 minute per game warrior who will be missed. The kind of player teams win with in playoff wars of attrition. Will be interesting to see this team's coaching staff adapt an inexperienced supporting d-corp to make up this big, early loss.

Oiler fans as much as this team's players needed these two early wins. This team won't out skill most of its opponents but good, honest hard work and commitment and discipline to own zone play and it can compete for a playoff spot.

 

[Fourier]

Vancouver spent heavily in the off season to be a playoff contender. Getting them early, at home, was a good thing and so was the crossbar ping as time expired. I viewed game one as a must win and despite being outplayed for much of it the Oil beat an improved division rival.

Holland is a godsend for this franchise. He's proven that already with the Lucic deal and letting Pool Party sulk in Finland. Coaching hasn't been a weakness with McLellan and future Hall of Famer Hitchcock, it's been a personnel issue created by an overwhelmed Chiarelli. I'd hoped for new blood as a coach but have changed my tune listening and watching Tippett mold the mental approach of this team and the in game management required to stretch a thin roster.

This thread is about Larssen and it is the first, substantive adversity the Oil face this year. He's a 20 minute per game warrior who will be missed. The kind of player teams win with in playoff wars of attrition. Will be interesting to see this team's coaching staff adapt an inexperienced supporting d-corp to make up this big, early loss.

Oiler fans as much as this team's players needed these two early wins. This team won't out skill most of its opponents but good, honest hard work and commitment and discipline to own zone play and it can compete for a playoff spot.

Losing Larsson for the first 6-8 weeks might be the best time for this to happen. They have a reasonably easy schedule and teams are typically playing a little differently than they do by mid December. But I agree with you. Larsson is a warriors. Even when he is not playing well he is generally still very hard to play against.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

One game in, Persson and Bear played well in his absence, fills me with a bit of hope they can weather Larsson's injury.

 

[MessierII]

Losing Larsson for the first 6-8 weeks might be the best time for this to happen. They have a reasonably easy schedule and teams are typically playing a little differently than they do by mid December. But I agree with you. Larsson is a warriors. Even when he is not playing well he is generally still very hard to play against.

I agree I think it’s probably the best time to get this out of the way. Also if this is our biggest injury on the blue line this year I am 100% good with that.

 

[McFlyingV]

Losing Larsson for the first 6-8 weeks might be the best time for this to happen. They have a reasonably easy schedule and teams are typically playing a little differently than they do by mid December. But I agree with you. Larsson is a warriors. Even when he is not playing well he is generally still very hard to play against.

Also a pretty good time for guys like Persson and Bear to get their feet wet. If one of them can grow the confidence to be a top 4 D by mid season the team will look a lot better when Larsson returns. If both are able to continue to grow their game then you might even see it push one of the bottom pairing guys out of the line up.

That along with guys like Jones, Lagesson, and Bouchard knocking on the door who could be up with the team later in the season it gives you a lot of different options and looks. Need a steady bottom pairing D? You got Russell, Benning, or Lagesson to choose from. Need a mobile puck moving D on your bottom pair? You got Caleb Jones. Need an offensive PP QB/puck moving D on your bottom pair? You got Bouchard. The Larsson injury opens up an opportunity for Persson and Bear, and the other guys I mentioned to play higher in the line up while games are less structured and more wide opened. After a month or two defensive structures tighten up and systems play become prevalent most nights, and that is when you really want Larsson back in your line up.