News Article: Larsson on LTIR (6-8 weeks, broken fibula)

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The team could have made an agreement with Sekera to sign him at around a mil after the buyout.

So it was possible.

That’s considered cap circumvention which comes with a 7 figure fine and the loss of your first round draft pick.

You can only resign a player who you bought out if the player cannot find a contract anywhere else in the league. You cannot have any side deals like what you suggest.

Calgary is/was investigated by the league for what happened with Stone. But it appears Stone could not find another deal and so Calgary is/will be off the hook.

As well Sekera signed for $1.5M plus 500k in bonuses. Not sure how you have it locked in that Sekera would agree to a contract for half of his potential earnings here.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I'll be honest. I had no idea this was allowed. But I still think that had the agreement been in place before the buyout it would have been nixed. Though how do you prove it.

I didn't know either. Now I get to look cool and smart.

That’s considered cap circumvention which comes with a 7 figure fine and the loss of your first round draft pick.

You can only resign a player who you bought out if the player cannot find a contract anywhere else in the league. You cannot have any side deals like what you suggest.

Calgary is/was investigated by the league for what happened with Stone. But it appears Stone could not find another deal and so Calgary is/will be off the hook.

As well Sekera signed for $1.5M plus 500k in bonuses. Not sure how you have it locked in that Sekera would agree to a contract for half of his potential earnings here.

I believe that what you are writing is what the story is right now.

It's a bunch of bullshit though.

The Oilers perhaps could have gotten him a bit cheaper as they were the only one allowed to talk to him. Could have even afforded him at 2 mil.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I didn't know either. Now I get to look cool and smart.


I believe that what you are writing is what the story is right now.

It's a bunch of bull**** though.

The Oilers perhaps could have gotten him a bit cheaper as they were the only one allowed to talk to him. Could have even afforded him at 2 mil.

The CBA is not bullshit. You cannot do what you propose and Sekera once bought out is free to explore the market. What you are suggesting as what “could have” happened cannot happen.

It’s that simple.

 

[nabob]

That’s considered cap circumvention which comes with a 7 figure fine and the loss of your first round draft pick.

You can only resign a player who you bought out if the player cannot find a contract anywhere else in the league. You cannot have any side deals like what you suggest.

Calgary is/was investigated by the league for what happened with Stone. But it appears Stone could not find another deal and so Calgary is/will be off the hook.

As well Sekera signed for $1.5M plus 500k in bonuses. Not sure how you have it locked in that Sekera would agree to a contract for half of his potential earnings here.

Yeah I really don’t get how HF posters think they can just say things like that. Or simply say we should have paid Chiasson and Grandlund less because it’s that simple.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The CBA is not bull****. You cannot do what you propose and Sekera once bought out is free to explore the market. What you are suggesting as what “could have” happened cannot happen.

It’s that simple.

Facts do not support your view.

Calgary signed him. End of story. It's gone on record that it is allowed under certain buyouts. So either those people are wrong or you are. Unless you can show the wording of your claim in the CBA, your post is just conjecture or just NHL propaganda that they furthered toward you because you have the inside track.

I couldn't care less either way. It is just some interesting tidbit to me.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Fact of the matter is that buying out Sekera was dumb. The team could field exactly the same team and be under the cap, but now the Oilers wouldn't be throwing two rookies to the wolves.

Use this year to evaluate rookies (1 at a time, or 2 if the team has 2 injuries), and possibly buy Sekera out at the end of the year (when he will count against the cap for 2 fewer years).

If Klefbom goes down (entirely possible), the team's D is:

Nurse - Benning
Russell - Bear
Manning - Persson

That line up is good for a minimum 3 GA per game.

Disagree, and I don't think that's giving enough credit to an apparent plan in place.

First of all getting Smith in here is not incidental to where we stand with D this season.

Smith, more than any other goalie we could attain offers our D ample support. Essentially we now have 3 D back on any dump in and Smith is as comfortable playing the puck forward or out as he is to handing it off to a D on either side, who have more time, and have an easier time moving the puck because any back end that has Smith on it is a pressure 3 scenario, which is REALLY difficult for the opponent forecheck. Somebody is always open. You can't shutdown a goalie that plays the puck this well. You end up hanging back a whole lot. Its really taxing for the forecheckers. Perplexing.

This is the BEST time to bring up our young D and its the very season it should happen. Its never going to be easier for prospect D's to acclimate to NHL speed because the Veteran Smith is able to slow down that pressure and by being back there steady the nerves and start the transitions with poise.

A lot more than people think, in this Tippet scheme were running, hinges on Smith. We'll be a different team anytime he's in the cage.

Not surprising either Smith was running through some schemes in practice yesterday with the defenders. This is a very bright goalie and he understands the game impeccably. Smith is a future coach if he wants it.

 

[guymez]

Nygard-McDavid-Neal
RNH-Draisaitl-Kassian
Khaira-Cave-Archibald
Granlund-Haas-Chiasson
Jurco, Sheahan

Nurse-Larsson
Klefbom-Bear
Sekera-Russel
Benning

Smith
Koskinen


This team fits under the cap.

Surely you can see the value there would have been in having Sekera here to move up into a top 4 spot with Larsson going on LTIR?

Show your work and the associated numbers with each player.
Once you do that you will see that your math is off.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Facts do not support your view.

Calgary signed him. End of story. It's gone on record that it is allowed under certain buyouts. So either those people are wrong or you are. Unless you can show the wording of your claim in the CBA, your post is just conjecture or just NHL propaganda that they furthered toward you because you have the inside track.

I couldn't care less either way. It is just some interesting tidbit to me.

The facts do support his view.

Calgary was investigated. Check

Stone was unable to find work anywhere else. Check.

You can’t have a pre-arranged agreement like that.

“Calgary signed him, end of story” that doesn’t win you your argument when you don’t have a clue with what you’re talking about.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Show your work and the associated numbers with each player.
Once you do that you will see that your math is off.

I’m curious how the same team but with a 5.5m cap hit instead of a 2.5m cap hit works

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The facts do support his view.

Calgary was investigated. Check

Stone was unable to find work anywhere else. Check.

You can’t have a pre-arranged agreement like that.

“Calgary signed him, end of story” that doesn’t win you your argument when you don’t have a clue with what you’re talking about.

Link?

I guess others were wrong then if a link can be provided. There seemed to be no argument at the time. General consensus seemed to be the order of the day. Hence my post.

I also have never seen it in the CBA. Did they add something?

Link?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Link?

I guess others were wrong then if a link can be provided. There seemed to be no argument at the time. General consensus seemed to be the order of the day. Hence my post.

I also have never seen it in the CBA. Did they add something?

Link?

Calgary Flames Sign Michael Stone

Note the this sentence : “ This move screams of cap circumvention. “

Note the last sentence: This could however be investigated by the league for cap circumvention if they believe it was intentional, as they did in the case of Brooks Orpik last summer.

Bill Daly also discussed it in a podcast I listened to where he said they cleared Calgary of cap circumvention.

You cannot intentionally buyout a player and resign him the next day at a much lower salary saving the club money on some side deal.

While it may not have specific language it is implied in the CBA.

Stone was bought out August 2 and signed Sept. 11. giving him nearly 6 weeks to find work elsewhere and at the time of the buyout there was no intent for Calgary to resign him.

What you are suggesting could have and should have happened is Edmonton approach Sekera’s agent saying we will buy you out of the remaining 2 years of the $5.5M per year contract and resign you the next day to a $1M 1 year contract. And that Sekera and his agent would have agreed to that without shopping his services elsewhere.

The league would smack Edmonton with cap circumvention in that case.

Now if Sekera couldn’t find work and Larsson went down in training camp we could have resigned him to whatever the two parties agreed to.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Calgary Flames Sign Michael Stone

Note the this sentence : “ This move screams of cap circumvention. “

Note the last sentence: This could however be investigated by the league for cap circumvention if they believe it was intentional, as they did in the case of Brooks Orpik last summer.

Bill Daly also discussed it in a podcast I listened to where he said they cleared Calgary of cap circumvention.

You cannot intentionally buyout a player and resign him the next day at a much lower salary saving the club money on some side deal.

While it may not have specific language it is implied in the CBA.

Stone was bought out August 2 and signed Sept. 11. giving him nearly 6 weeks to find work elsewhere and at the time of the buyout there was no intent for Calgary to resign him.

What you are suggesting could have and should have happened is Edmonton approach Sekera’s agent saying we will buy you out of the remaining 2 years of the $5.5M per year contract and resign you the next day to a $1M 1 year contract. And that Sekera and his agent would have agreed to that without shopping his services elsewhere.

The league would smack Edmonton with cap circumvention in that case.

Now if Sekera couldn’t find work and Larsson went down in training camp we could have resigned him to whatever the two parties agreed to.

Thanks. So it does appear they bent the rules?

It just sounds a tad iffy. All kinds of things can be implied. I can only imagine the NHL conference call.

"Why did you sign him when supposedly no one else thought him worthy of a contract? He also says he couldn't even grab a walk on? Sounds doubtful. Yet you are saving a lot on cap space due to buying him out? Why?"

"He has dogs to feed. So we gave him an NHL contract out of the goodness of our heart."

"So you didn't have a hand shake agreement?"

"Define 'have'."

"Is that good enough for you Bobby N.?

"Yup, sounds like a thorough investigation/process/forensic audit to me."

"OK, then. Good to go!"

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Thanks. So it does appear they bent the rules?

It just sounds a tad iffy. All kinds of things can be implied. I can only imagine the NHL conference call.

"Why did you sign him when supposedly no one else thought him worthy of a contract? He also says he couldn't even grab a walk on? Sounds doubtful. Yet you are saving a lot on cap space due to buying him out? Why?"

"He has dogs to feed. So we gave him an NHL contract out of the goodness of our heart."

"So you didn't have a hand shake agreement?"

"Define 'have'."

"Is that good enough for you Bobby N.?

"Yup, sounds like a thorough investigation/process/forensic audit to me."

"OK, then. Good to go!"

No they didn’t bend the rules but they had to be investigated by the league to make sure. The podcast Daly was asked about it and he said (and I paraphrase) that at the time of the buyout there no intent to resign him and it was circumstances weeks later and lack of other opportunities with Stone that led to his resigning but the league looks at situations like this very carefully.

Bottom line is the Flames had no intention to resign Stone. Even after Valimaki went down the Flames explored other options on D while Stone was exploring other options with teams. In the end they both mutually circled back and had to pass the sniff test from the league.

We could sign Sekera now to a $1M x 1 if he wasn’t already signed.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

No they didn’t bend the rules but they had to be investigated by the league to make sure. The podcast Daly was asked about it and he said (and I paraphrase) that at the time of the buyout there no intent to resign him and it was circumstances weeks later and lack of other opportunities with Stone that led to his resigning but the league looks at situations like this very carefully.

Bottom line is the Flames had no intention to resign Stone. Even after Valimaki went down the Flames explored other options on D while Stone was exploring other options with teams. In the end they both mutually circled back and had to pass the sniff test from the league.

We could sign Sekera now to a $1M x 1 if he wasn’t already signed.

Yup.

The league bent the rules, made an exception, whatever someone wants to call it. It's not in the CBA. It's really no biggie. Just a way of doing business. Everyone that matters nods that they don't care and really who should?

The bemusing part is that the Flames and Stone can say whatever they wish. Then it is just believing the honor system. He said, she said. If that's OK with them who are we to argue?

It's not surprising. The league certainly didn't want a lawsuit on their hands. I'm sure it was mentioned.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Yup.

The league bent the rules, made an exception, whatever someone wants to call it. It's not in the CBA. It's really no biggie. Just a way of doing business. Everyone that matters nods that they don't care and really who should?

The bemusing part is that the Flames and Stone can say whatever they wish. Then it is just believing the honor system. He said, she said. If that's OK with them who are we to argue?

It's not surprising. The league certainly didn't want a lawsuit on their hands. I'm sure it was mentioned.

Did you even read his post? Seems like you’re missing the whole point of it.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Did you even read his post? Seems like you’re missing the whole point of it.

I give up.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I give up.

lol

They made an exception. Amazing how you do not want to admit that. It is the very definition of the word. You defined it by how you described it. Perhaps you thought it meant something else?

"An exception is something that is left out or not done on purpose. An exception to a rule does not follow that rule. This word is used for all sorts of things that are not usual or usually allowed. The saying ”i before e except after c,” is about an exception to a spelling rule."

/https://www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › exception

That's an exception to the buyout rule. It's English. Argue with Websters.

 

[Snowpants]

lol

They made an exception. Amazing how you do not want to admit that. It is the very definition of the word. You defined it by how you described it. Perhaps you thought it meant something else?

"An exception is something that is left out or not done on purpose. An exception to a rule does not follow that rule. This word is used for all sorts of things that are not usual or usually allowed. The saying ”i before e except after c,” is about an exception to a spelling rule."

/https://www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › exception

That's an exception to the buyout rule. It's English. Argue with Websters.

Two exceptions in two years does not seem like much of an exception more like new norm

Face it this is an under handed thing teams are getting away with now bet you though the Oilers could not they would get fined and stripped of picks

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Calgary Flames Sign Michael Stone

Note the this sentence : “ This move screams of cap circumvention. “

Note the last sentence: This could however be investigated by the league for cap circumvention if they believe it was intentional, as they did in the case of Brooks Orpik last summer.

Bill Daly also discussed it in a podcast I listened to where he said they cleared Calgary of cap circumvention.

You cannot intentionally buyout a player and resign him the next day at a much lower salary saving the club money on some side deal.

While it may not have specific language it is implied in the CBA.

Stone was bought out August 2 and signed Sept. 11. giving him nearly 6 weeks to find work elsewhere and at the time of the buyout there was no intent for Calgary to resign him.

What you are suggesting could have and should have happened is Edmonton approach Sekera’s agent saying we will buy you out of the remaining 2 years of the $5.5M per year contract and resign you the next day to a $1M 1 year contract. And that Sekera and his agent would have agreed to that without shopping his services elsewhere.

The league would smack Edmonton with cap circumvention in that case.

Now if Sekera couldn’t find work and Larsson went down in training camp we could have resigned him to whatever the two parties agreed to.

How do they even investigate that in regards to nobody wanting him? Did they actually go and interview/ask every single GM around the league if they would have been willing to sign him and if they were even contacted by Stone's agent?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

lol

They made an exception. Amazing how you do not want to admit that. It is the very definition of the word. You defined it by how you described it. Perhaps you thought it meant something else?

"An exception is something that is left out or not done on purpose. An exception to a rule does not follow that rule. This word is used for all sorts of things that are not usual or usually allowed. The saying ”i before e except after c,” is about an exception to a spelling rule."

/https://www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › exception

That's an exception to the buyout rule. It's English. Argue with Websters.

Whatever you say.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

How do they even investigate that in regards to nobody wanting him? Did they actually go and interview/ask every single GM around the league if they would have been willing to sign him and if they were even contacted by Stone's agent?

How do I know. I am repeating what was said and how the CBA applies.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

lol

They made an exception. Amazing how you do not want to admit that. It is the very definition of the word. You defined it by how you described it. Perhaps you thought it meant something else?

"An exception is something that is left out or not done on purpose. An exception to a rule does not follow that rule. This word is used for all sorts of things that are not usual or usually allowed. The saying ”i before e except after c,” is about an exception to a spelling rule."

/https://www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › exception

That's an exception to the buyout rule. It's English. Argue with Websters.

You really cant tell the difference between what you said they should of done with Sekera which was a handshake agreement to resign at a much cheaper cap hit and what happened with the Flames and Stone?

They didn't make an exception, calgary didn't break the rules. Your idea would of broken the rules.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Two exceptions in two years does not seem like much of an exception more like new norm

Face it this is an under handed thing teams are getting away with now bet you though the Oilers could not they would get fined and stripped of picks

I think you may be right. teams will get away with whatever they can.

How do they even investigate that in regards to nobody wanting him? Did they actually go and interview/ask every single GM around the league if they would have been willing to sign him and if they were even contacted by Stone's agent?

This is what I was wondering. I thought perhaps a mass email. If no one cared then no one cared. Obviously no one cared.

Whatever you say *******.

Ok ,then.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

You really cant tell the difference between what you said they should of done with Sekera which was a handshake agreement to resign at a much cheaper cap hit and what happened with the Flames and Stone?

They didn't make an exception, calgary didn't break the rules. Your idea would of broken the rules.

I agree completely. It's obvious the way it was explained before was false. This is not something a certain buyout window allows. It's an exception to the general rule. I can see why. If he truly could prove in a court of law that this is the only contract he could sign then it's all that right to work stuff.

Teams will try and get away with anything they can. This appears to be a little loop hole. Obviously legal, just as tax loop holes are legal. Good on Calgary for recognizing it.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

You really cant tell the difference between what you said they should of done with Sekera which was a handshake agreement to resign at a much cheaper cap hit and what happened with the Flames and Stone?

They didn't make an exception, calgary didn't break the rules. Your idea would of broken the rules.

Better be careful. You’ll get an Encyclopedia Brittanica reference thrown at you.