News Article: Larsson on LTIR (6-8 weeks, broken fibula)

nabob

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And this is worth sacrificing defense development for?

The Oilers were manhandled at times by the Canucks. What do you think is going to happen when the elites come to town?

And you think that dead cap space is going to help us in a couple years? For pete's sake we're still paying for Pouliot and Gryba. It was a short-sighted move.

How is it sacrificing defensive development? Keeping an aging veteran who literally is on his last legs around to struggle badly on the bottom pairing is good for defensive development?

How much dead cap space will we have from the Sekera buyout in a couple of years?
 

nabob

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Gotta admit just having Manning there on the roster soaking up $2.25 million in cap when someone like Burdasov could have been signed for a LOT less (and been much more useful) is a source of irritation.

I know they had their reasons for not signing Burdasov and he's not some superstar... but he was definitely very likely to be a more useful player than having Manning globbed in the PB.

Chia is a gift that keeps on giving. Thankfully Holland has the team in a position for next offseason where almost all of Chia’s massive blunders will be off the books.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
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How is it sacrificing defensive development? Keeping an aging veteran who literally is on his last legs around to struggle badly on the bottom pairing is good for defensive development?

How much dead cap space will we have from the Sekera buyout in a couple of years?
It sounds a whole lot better to me than subjecting Ethan Bear to significant time on the top 4 of what's already a pretty awful defense. It just screams "Justin Schultz" all over again.

1.5 million. Doesn't sound like a lot but those buyouts add up. We're still paying Pouliot for the next two seasons. 1.5 could easily bring in an upgrade to the bottom six, which if game 1 was any indication, is still sorely needed.
 
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nabob

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It sounds a whole lot better to me than subjecting Ethan Bear to significant time on the top 4 of what's already a pretty awful defense. It just screams "Justin Schultz" all over again.

1.5 million. Doesn't sound like a lot but those buyouts add up. We're still paying Pouliot for the next two seasons. 1.5 could easily bring in an upgrade to the bottom six, which if game 1 was any indication, is still sorely needed.

So you’d rather have Bear, Legs and Jones all in the minors or Sekera taking up space. Then next season we have three young Dmen who didn’t play a minute of NHL time that all need to clear waivers or we lose them for nothing. Bear has played one game and played bottom pairing minutes. Minutes where he played better than Sekera did in any game the last two years btw.

Nothing about Bear playing in the NHL screams
Schultz at all. Bear was WHL dman of the year, then had two strong seasons in the AHL. Should we keep all of our prospects in the AHL until we lose them on waivers? You do realize that really good players can learn and develop while in the NHL as well right? There’s no rule that every player has to be at the peak of their prime to play in the NHL.

$1.5M could bring in help for the bottom six, but not nearly as much as the remaining $4M saved on Sekeras buy out does...you’re not actually saving that $1.5M you’re still spending $4M on top of that to have a broken Sekera sucking on your bottom pairing.
 
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Tobias Kahun

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It sounds a whole lot better to me than subjecting Ethan Bear to significant time on the top 4 of what's already a pretty awful defense. It just screams "Justin Schultz" all over again.

1.5 million. Doesn't sound like a lot but those buyouts add up. We're still paying Pouliot for the next two seasons. 1.5 could easily bring in an upgrade to the bottom six, which if game 1 was any indication, is still sorely needed.
1.5m for an upgrade? If we keep sekera we lose 3m cap space, where’s the money come from for the upgrade?
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

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1.5m for an upgrade? If we keep sekera we lose 3m cap space, where’s the money come from for the upgrade?
He was talking about down the road after Sekera's contract expired. That's 1.5 in dead cap space. Again, cannot stress enough how we're still paying for Pouliot thanks to a foolish buyout.

So you’d rather have Bear, Legs and Jones all in the minors or Sekera taking up space. Then next season we have three young Dmen who didn’t play a minute of NHL time that all need to clear waivers or we lose them for nothing. Bear has played one game and played bottom pairing minutes. Minutes where he played better than Sekera did in any game the last two years btw.
I have no problem playing any of those players on the third pairing in a sheltered role. Slotting them next to a veteran D seems ideal to me. And Jones wasn't anything special in preseason, so I'm not sure why we're worrying about him. And it's good to compare one simple game to a person's body of work over the past two years. That was not a game the Oilers were in control of at any point. Asking him to deal with the big guns of the NHL (MacKinnon, Seguin, pretty much the entire Vegas roster, etc) seems a bit much for him at this point of the career.

Nothing about Bear playing in the NHL screams
Schultz at all. Bear was WHL dman of the year, then had two strong seasons in the AHL. Should we keep all of our prospects in the AHL until we lose them on waivers? You do realize that really good players can learn and develop while in the NHL as well right? There’s no rule that every player has to be at the peak of their prime to play in the NHL.

I said playing him in the top 4. You seem to have misconstrued my point. Sheltering him on the third pairing is fine. And really, being WHL dman of the year means absolutely nothing considering we traded for Petrovic last year, who also won that award. Not to mention we have Kris Russell... well, you get the idea. We need to bring our defensive prospects along very slowly.

$1.5M could bring in help for the bottom six, but not nearly as much as the remaining $4M saved on Sekeras buy out does...you’re not actually saving that $1.5M you’re still spending $4M on top of that to have a broken Sekera sucking on your bottom pairing.
You're still paying 1.5 after his contract expires on nothing. And we didn't spend that cap space anyway, nor are we likely to during the season. I get that Holland is the new hotness on here but why the rush to buy out Sekera? Let him play in a year we obviously aren't contending for the playoffs then buy him out next season.

Oh, that's right... Holland thinks this is a playoff team this year. With that defense, he's dreaming. If only we had some insurance in case one of our top 4 went down as is the case basically every year.
 
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nabob

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He was talking about down the road after Sekera's contract expired. That's 1.5 in dead cap space. Again, cannot stress enough how we're still paying for Pouliot thanks to a foolish buyout.


I have no problem playing any of those players on the third pairing in a sheltered role. Slotting them next to a veteran D seems ideal to me. And Jones wasn't anything special in preseason, so I'm not sure why we're worrying about him. And it's good to compare one simple game to a person's body of work over the past two years. That was not a game the Oilers were in control of at any point. Asking him to deal with the big guns of the NHL (MacKinnon, Seguin, pretty much the entire Vegas roster, etc) seems a bit much for him at this point of the career.



I said playing him in the top 4. You seem to have misconstrued my point. Sheltering him on the third pairing is fine. And really, being WHL dman of the year means absolutely nothing considering we traded for Petrovic last year, who also won that award. Not to mention we have Kris Russell... well, you get the idea. We need to bring our defensive prospects along very slowly.


You're still paying 1.5 after his contract expires on nothing. And we didn't spend that cap space anyway, nor are we likely to during the season. I get that Holland is the new hotness on here but why the rush to buy out Sekera? Let him play in a year we obviously aren't contending for the playoffs then buy him out next season.

Oh, that's right... Holland thinks this is a playoff team this year. With that defense, he's dreaming. If only we had some insurance in case one of our top 4 went down as is the case basically every year.

Your point is wrong and invalid because Bear has played one single game and played sheltered minutes and excelled. How much slower could we possibly bring our young D along? Should we leave them in the AHL until their waivers exemption expires? What evidence do you have to say that one of Bear, Legs or Jones shouldn’t be given a chance to show what they have in the NHL this year?

But we were $90k from the cap when Larsson was put on LTIR. Looks like you’re wrong yet again. The money saved on the Sekera buyout was used to bring in bottom six players as you suggested.
 
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Tobias Kahun

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He was talking about down the road after Sekera's contract expired. That's 1.5 in dead cap space. Again, cannot stress enough how we're still paying for Pouliot thanks to a foolish buyout.


I have no problem playing any of those players on the third pairing in a sheltered role. Slotting them next to a veteran D seems ideal to me. And Jones wasn't anything special in preseason, so I'm not sure why we're worrying about him. And it's good to compare one simple game to a person's body of work over the past two years. That was not a game the Oilers were in control of at any point. Asking him to deal with the big guns of the NHL (MacKinnon, Seguin, pretty much the entire Vegas roster, etc) seems a bit much for him at this point of the career.



I said playing him in the top 4. You seem to have misconstrued my point. Sheltering him on the third pairing is fine. And really, being WHL dman of the year means absolutely nothing considering we traded for Petrovic last year, who also won that award. Not to mention we have Kris Russell... well, you get the idea. We need to bring our defensive prospects along very slowly.


You're still paying 1.5 after his contract expires on nothing. And we didn't spend that cap space anyway, nor are we likely to during the season. I get that Holland is the new hotness on here but why the rush to buy out Sekera? Let him play in a year we obviously aren't contending for the playoffs then buy him out next season.

Oh, that's right... Holland thinks this is a playoff team this year. With that defense, he's dreaming. If only we had some insurance in case one of our top 4 went down as is the case basically every year.
Did you miss where the oilers are already pretty tight to the cap? Where’s that 3m coming from for sekera
 

nabob

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Did you miss where the oilers are already pretty tight to the cap? Where’s that 3m coming from for sekera

Just get rid of Jurco, Sheahan, Nygard, Granlund, and another player and we’d be able to have $1.5M in cap space to improve our bottom 6...and a broken Sekera wasting space struggling on the bottom pair.
 
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KeithIsActuallyBad

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Did you miss where the oilers are already pretty tight to the cap? Where’s that 3m coming from for sekera
Make Manning's contract disappear. Trade Benning. Got any other brainbusters?

Your point is wrong and invalid because Bear has played one single game and played sheltered minutes and excelled. How much slower could we possibly bring our young D along? Should we leave them in the AHL until their waivers exemption expires? What evidence do you have to say that one of Bear, Legs or Jones shouldn’t be given a chance to show what they have in the NHL this year?

But we were $90k from the cap when Larsson was put on LTIR. Looks like you’re wrong yet again. The money saved on the Sekera buyout was used to bring in bottom six players as you suggested.
Well now Larsson's gone. Where do you think that 20+ minutes per game is going to go? If it goes to Benning you're screwed. If it goes to Bear you're not sheltering him. And if you play Manning you might as well forfeit the game. Larsson also played a large part of the PK. Bear did not. Think he gets any PK time? Which reminds me, why the hell is Manning here? If he plays a game, Holland has failed the defense. There's no reason to have this player even with the team.

Again, you keep putting words into my mouth. I don't have any issue with Bear being here, I don't think he's ready for prime minutes. Jones looked like nothing special during the preseason. I don't know why you keep bringing up this player. Where's he going to fit anyway if Bear sticks around? Russell/Larsson/Klefbom are all signed for next year. Nurse isn't going anywhere either. Benning seems to be favoured by the coaching staff. Doesn't exactly leave room for Jones/Lagesson.

The salary cap isn't a 5000 piece puzzle. Teams make it work. Make some of the anchors vanish. That's Holland's job. Maybe pay Granlund less than 1.3, Chiasson less than 2.1 for starters.
 
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Tobias Kahun

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Make Manning's contract disappear. Trade Benning. Got any other brainbusters?


Well now Larsson's gone. Where do you think that 20+ minutes per game is going to go? If it goes to Benning you're screwed. If it goes to Bear you're not sheltering him. And if you play Manning you might as well forfeit the game. Larsson also played a large part of the PK. Bear did not. Think he gets any PK time? Which reminds me, why the hell is Manning here? If he plays a game, Holland has failed the defense. There's no reason to have this player even with the team.

Again, you keep putting words into my mouth. I don't have any issue with Bear being here, I don't think he's ready for prime minutes. Jones looked like nothing special during the preseason. I don't know why you keep bringing up this player. Where's he going to fit anyway if Bear sticks around? Russell/Larsson/Klefbom are all signed for next year. Nurse isn't going anywhere either. Benning seems to be favoured by the coaching staff. Doesn't exactly leave room for Jones/Lagesson.

The salary cap isn't a 5000 piece puzzle. Teams make it work. Make some of the anchors vanish. That's Holland's job. Maybe pay Granlund less than 1.3, Chiasson less than 2.1 for starters.
Make mannings contract disappear?

You would be on here complaining when he gave up assets to do that.
 

OilerTitanFan

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I’ve seen him play more than one game. If you are basing your evaluation of this player on one game well.......

Hughes can skate circles around Bouchard. If you had the choice between the two players and you actually chose Bouchard, then you would be a fool.
I bet you Yakupov can skate circles around Draisaitl. How did that turn out,
 

Debbie Mathers

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I think buying out Gags and Manning would have given similar cap savings but only for 2 years of paying for it.

For curiosity sake now that we know Gagner is being filled alongside Manning as out of date for the game today

Gags+Manning buyout calculator:

Y1 Cap hit: 3.15M + 2.25M = 5.4M
Y1 Buyout Caphit = 1.02M + 0.92M = 1.94M
Y1 Savings: 3.46M

Y2 Buyout Caphit = 1.02M + 0.67M = 1.69M (Sek's is 2.5M, and then 1.5, 1.5 for years 3,4)


There is the extra cost to replace 1 more player in the lineup of course vs Sek's 3M of savings for 1 spot, but it's pretty darn close, and of course, this pain only goes 2 years.

oooohhhh welllllll
Isn't there a rule that a team can only have three players in their current buyout history? We already had Gryba and Pouliot...

Thanks again Chia for buying out Gryba. That was a really smart move.
 

Debbie Mathers

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So we brought up Bouchard and sent down Bear a couple of days ago (at least on paper), and now that particular process has been reversed. Anyone care to enlighten me what sensible reason this could have had?
 

Fourier

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Isn't there a rule that a team can only have three players in their current buyout history? We already had Gryba and Pouliot...

Thanks again Chia for buying out Gryba. That was a really smart move.
A team can have as many buyouts as they can afford. The restriction is on retained salaries. There can only be three on the books at any given time.
 

Fourier

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Maximizing LTIR cap-pool, or something like that.


There are a number of reasons to do this. The most obvious is that it maximizes the LTIR room. But there is a less obvious reason and that has to do with how LTIR essentially resets a team's ceiling. This impacts things like accruement of cap space if a team goes under the new ceiling while the injured player is still out. In the Oilers case, this probably has an impact if the other players on IR heal. It's a technically complicated process so I won't get into it (Capfriendly does a good job of outlining the rule) but rather I would just say that it is good to see that management is looking at even small details. I have my doubts that the previous regime would have been as on the ball.
 

ThePhoenixx

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The team could have made an agreement with Sekera to sign him at around a mil after the buyout.

So it was possible.
 

Fourier

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The team could have made an agreement with Sekera to sign him at around a mil after the buyout.

So it was possible.
I'll be honest. I had no idea this was allowed. But I still think that had the agreement been in place before the buyout it would have been nixed. Though how do you prove it.
 

McDraekke

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Correct me if I’m wrong, because maybe I don’t understand all of the rules, but was there not a buyout window that took place during the off-season that ended just prior to free agency starting? All of this bitching and moaning that Sekera was bought out “for no reason,” is such BS. Holland had to make the decision to gain some cap space before he knew if he could sign a replacement or not. So while it’s maybe fair to be annoyed that he didn’t end up signing someone, to actually allow himself the luxury to TRY, he felt that he HAD to buyout Sekera to afford himself and the team the space. And we all know that some of the same shit posters would be complaining that Holland didn’t try to clear space before free agency if he hadn’t bought out Sekera - yes, I realize that there are other ways to clear cap space, but Holland isn’t a dumb GM, he clearly had/has a plan, and while the plan doesn’t always come to fruition, he had to at least try.

Also: most teams struggle when they lose a dman who was set to play 20 mins a night, this is not an Oilers-specific ailment. Most teams would have to get creative to fill that gap, unless we are talking about some of the top defensive teams in the league, which we aren’t. It sucks to lose a major player (again), but somehow making this about Holland failing to provide sufficient coverage is a pretty weak argument, considering that Holland has taken over this team from one of the worst GMs we’ve seen. He’s not a wizard, he can’t create solutions to our problems out of thin air, he has limitations of players not wanting to play in Edmonton, GMs not wanting to trade their players or asking for too much in return, etc.

Maybe - just maybe - we need to give the man more than one game to see if he can actually do something positive with this team and bring us out of the bottom heap eventually. But guess what? It might take a couple years. That’s a hard f***ing pill to swallow, agreed, but you can’t change the past, and Holland is the best chance we have right now.

Larsson, hurry up and get healthy!
 

Aerchon

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Draisaitl’s skating is much improved. He is likely a better skater than Yakupov by a fair margin.

Yakupov was not a good skater at the nhl level. He had no separation and his agility was nothing special either.

Yakupov had great shot, strength, speed, talent... etc at the junior level. None of which were "good enough" to translate to the nhl. I see Sam Bennett as similiar in that regard. Both good at lots great at nothing.

Draisaitl is as different from Yak as possible. In terms of skating people exaggerated Draisaitl’s deficiency. He was as good a skater as Yakupov in junior and then he improved it significantly. Right now I don't think there is any question Draisaitl is currently the better skater.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
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Make mannings contract disappear?

You would be on here complaining when he gave up assets to do that.
To clear cap room from a contract nobody wants? As long as it wasn't something egregious, nah. I said similar things about Lucic's contract.

There is zero reason for Manning to be on this roster right now.
 

nabob

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Make Manning's contract disappear. Trade Benning. Got any other brainbusters?


Well now Larsson's gone. Where do you think that 20+ minutes per game is going to go? If it goes to Benning you're screwed. If it goes to Bear you're not sheltering him. And if you play Manning you might as well forfeit the game. Larsson also played a large part of the PK. Bear did not. Think he gets any PK time? Which reminds me, why the hell is Manning here? If he plays a game, Holland has failed the defense. There's no reason to have this player even with the team.

Again, you keep putting words into my mouth. I don't have any issue with Bear being here, I don't think he's ready for prime minutes. Jones looked like nothing special during the preseason. I don't know why you keep bringing up this player. Where's he going to fit anyway if Bear sticks around? Russell/Larsson/Klefbom are all signed for next year. Nurse isn't going anywhere either. Benning seems to be favoured by the coaching staff. Doesn't exactly leave room for Jones/Lagesson.

The salary cap isn't a 5000 piece puzzle. Teams make it work. Make some of the anchors vanish. That's Holland's job. Maybe pay Granlund less than 1.3, Chiasson less than 2.1 for starters.

So now we’re just making contracts disappear to suit our narratives?

Can you show me where Bear played these prime minutes that you keep on about? When did this happen in the one game that has been played?

Your solution is to make contracts disappear and to have an endless supply of top 4 Dmen in case one or more of our top 4 Dmen get hurt. Manning is here because Chia wanted him and his contract is one that no one will take. Please tell me how you’d propose to simply make his contract “disappear” and how you just simply pay less than market value for UFAs. Sounds so simple the way you say it. Can you make Kosikinen’s contract disappear too? Maybe make Nurses contract a $5M x 8 year deal as well, then sign Nuge for 6 years at $6M per season as well. Damn this GMing thing is easy. While we’re at it we’ll pretend that players who didn’t hugely impress in one preseason after two very strong AHL seasons no longer exist like you’re doing with Jones. You magically make Benning and Manning’s contracts disappear...then say we might as well lose Jones on waivers for nothing because we have Russell and others on the team...why didn’t you magically suggest we make Russell’s contract disappear as well?
 
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