Largest gap in plus minus between Teammates

[markrander87]

Anyone have some large differences among full season teammates for plus minus? Also biggest gap between the best plus minus on a team and the second best plus minus.

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[danincanada]

Anyone have some large differences among full season teammates for plus minus? Also biggest gap between the best plus minus on a team and the second best plus minus.

Maybe not the largest gap but I always noted that guy in your picture had a difference of 78 with Dan Quinn in ‘88-89. In fact, only his two line mates had good +/- numbers while much of the rest of the team had brutal numbers.

 

[McGarnagle]

Are we setting a minimum number of games?

Bobby Orr was +124 in 1971. Danny Schock was -1 (in only 6 games though). Gap of 125 there. I doubt anyone's going to top that.

Gretzky's best season was +100 in 1985, Kevin mcClellland was -10.. Difference of 110.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

not quite as high as gretzky/mcclelland but mark howe (+87) and thomas eriksson (-12): 99

 

[VanIslander]

Guy Carbonneau won the Selke trophy for best defensive forward in the NHL in 1992 with the 16th "best" +/- on his own team (3rd in Habs even strength goals) with a humble +2 compared to some Hab who got +29 and nine Habs had plus double digits. Only Brian Skrudland and Sylvain Turgeon had a lower/"worse" Habs plus minus.

What do you think the +/- means?

 

[psycat]

Guy Carbonneau won the Selke trophy for best defensive forward in the NHL in 1992 with the 16th "best" +/- on his own team (3rd in Habs even strength goals) with a humble +2 compared to some Hab who got +29 and nine Habs had plus double digits. Only Brian Skrudland and Sylvain Turgeon had a lower/"worse" Habs plus minus.

What do you think the +/- means?

Slithtly more than the Selke.

 

[The Panther]

That Dan Quinn -37 in 1988-89 with .544 Pittsburgh really jumps out at you. Two seasons earlier, with .450 Pittsburgh, he'd been +13.


On the 1976-77 Canadiens (arguably the greatest team of all-time), Larry Robinson played the full season and was +120. Another D-man, Pierre Bouchard, also played more-or-less the full season and was +33.

Imagine being an NHL defenseman who goes +33 on the season and you're the five-on-five weak link of your defense core....

 

[ForsbergForever]

Brian Engblom was a +78 with the Habs in 1981-82 while Guy Lapointe, of all people, was a -3 in 47 games before being traded to St. Louis.

 

[MadArcand]

It's nowhere near the biggest all-time difference, but somehow last season Thomas Hickey managed to be +20 for the Isles, while Nick Leddy 'managed' an impressive -42.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

1971 Bruins.

Orr +124
Marcotte +20

difference of 104 (Marcotte played 75 games to Orr's 78)

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Brian Engblom was a +78 with the Habs in 1981-82 while Guy Lapointe, of all people, was a -3 in 47 games before being traded to St. Louis.

Engblom's partner was Rod Langway, which helped.

 

[ForsbergForever]

Engblom's partner was Rod Langway, which helped.

Langway was only a +66 that same season for comparison. I believe Langway and Engblom were a defensive pair together so I'm sure they helped each other to some extent. I think Engblom would be more appreciated as a player if he hadn't bounced around so much in his career. He was clearly great in his own right as he made Team Canada in 1981.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Langway was only a +66 that same season for comparison. I believe Langway and Engblom were a defensive pair together so I'm sure they helped each to some extent. I think Engblom would be more ppreciatedas a player if he hadn't bounced around so much in his career. He was clearly great in his own right as he made Team Canada in 1981.

From the 79 playoffs until their arrival in Washington in 82 when they were split by Bryan Murray, Langway & Engblom were arguably the best D duo in the league over that time (certainly top 5 at any given time taking into account Potvin-Persson, Potvin-Morrow, Bourque-Park & Robinson--Savard). Note that while Langway went on to be a Norris winner & Hart candidate, Engblom quietly faded into the role of solid second-pairing D after their split, never on the Norris or All-Star radar again. Engblom having a higher +/- than Langway didn't make him a better defenceman than Langway: it was Langway's shut down play that gave Engblom the shine, just as he gave Bob Gainey enough shine to win the Smythe in 79. Langway was, & still is, a criminally underrated player. In the 79 Finals, Bowman played the rookies Langway-Engblom behind Gainey-Jarvis-Chartraw; the times the Rags managed to escape Gainey's lock, they ran into Langway toeing the line with perfect kitty-bar-the-door completely choking off zone entries. The duo had a unique chemistry: Langway would shut 'em down & Engblom would move 'em out. But as talented as Engblom was, even as early as 79 I was under no illusion who the better player was: Langway was a unique & special player who stood out for his masterful defensive prowess; Engblom was very good but never elite.

 

[reckoning]

Not the NHL, but in 74-75 Bobby Hull was plus+63 for Winnipeg in the WHA. A teammate by the name of Heikki Riiharanta was minus-40. That's got to be the two largest distances away from zero in both directions on any team.

 

[MadLuke]

What do you think the +/- means?

Except for some special teams consideration, the difference between their team's total scoring versus their opponent's when the player is in the game, the only thing that matter in winning hockey game, making a team score more than being scored again. Adjusted for some PDO bad or good luck, quality of teammate, quality of competition and zone usage, should give a good idea of a player value.

 

[markrander87]

Guy Carbonneau won the Selke trophy for best defensive forward in the NHL in 1992 with the 16th "best" +/- on his own team (3rd in Habs even strength goals) with a humble +2 compared to some Hab who got +29 and nine Habs had plus double digits. Only Brian Skrudland and Sylvain Turgeon had a lower/"worse" Habs plus minus.

What do you think the +/- means?

I don't think I implied once its the be all end all of statistics so thanks for popping by. It's a conversation starter for situations like the above.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

In 1996, Vlad Konstantinov was +60, while Stu Grimson was -10 (in 56 games). A gap of 70 - I think that's the biggest from the 1990s onwards.

 

[The Panther]

In 1996, Vlad Konstantinov was +60, while Stu Grimson was -10 (in 56 games). A gap of 70 - I think that's the biggest from the 1990s onwards.

A similar one a bit later: On the 2003 Avs, Forsberg, a center, is +52 in 75 games, and in about the same number of games, another center, Jeff Shantz, is -12. (Hedjuk was also +52.) Perhaps not coincidentally, this was Shantz's final NHL season...