Proposal: Laine?

[Retire91]

I am seeing snipets of seider/larkin and our 2021 pick in this thread and that becomes a hard stop for me. No way I trade those assets for a one dimensional offensive winger. We can't afford to pay what WPG wants for this player and I don't want to see the rebuild center around Phill Kesse eh hmm I mean Laine. Laine is now the new Krug, one dimensional bad fit for our rebuild. You guys just can't resist.

 

[Bench]

I am seeing snipets of seider/larkin and our 2021 pick in this thread and that becomes a hard stop for me. No way I trade those assets for a one dimensional offensive winger. We can't afford to pay what WPG wants for this player and I don't want to see the rebuild center around Phill Kesse eh hmm I mean Laine. Laine is now the new Krug, one dimensional bad fit for our rebuild. You guys just can't resist.

He's 22, 6 foot freakin' 5, and has 138 goals in 4 seasons.

Over those 4 seasons, here's the list of names who have scored more:
Ovechkin, Matthews, Pasta, Kucherov, Draisaitl, and McDavid.
That's it. That's the list.

If you don't see why people are at least curious and doing a full Ken Holland tire kicking, then you might want to review that list again.

 

[Retire91]

Ovechikn drafted by current team
Matthews drafted by current team
Kucherov drafted by current team
Draisaitl drafted by current team
McDavid drafted by current team.

I am sorry but who the hell is pasta?

Ovechkin 22 year old and 18 year old McDavid are the 2 players I would for sure selling every single asset Lindrose style and starting at absolute zero. It doesn't matter how good Lanie is one dimensionally at one aspect of the game to compare with these players. If you give up your entire future to get a one dimensional goal scoring winger your rebuild is over before it started. It doesn't matter if any of those players were considered one dimensional at one point, drafting a one dimensional player and selling your entire farm for a one dimensional player are two entirely different discussions.

All of those players are with their original team for a reason. The fact that Lanie is even on the market should scream volumes. If he was in their tier he wouldn't be available.

 

[HisNoodliness]

"Mantha + Veleno + Tuomisto for Laine" value may/may not be there for either side though, not just the Jets. Veleno & Mantha are the type of players you can win with, add to your core. Laine is virtually a 1-dimensional, way overpriced, soon to be mercinary.

My evaluation of Laine is a little different. He had 40 goals a couple of years ago and is 22 years old. That's a core player full stop. Mantha is my favorite wing, and I think Veleno and Tuomisto are very solid prospects. I don't want to trade any of those pieces, but you have to give to get, and I think Laine is a player worth getting.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You will never know the temperature until you put your foot in the pool.

Ok, so you make the call. It's just not a realistic idea. You ask the question to see what they want for him, just like you do any other player who is on the market.

Are other teams realistically going to be able to offer more than that? Maybe we could upgrade on Cholowski to a Veleno, but I can’t imagine much better offers

For a player who is 22 averaging about a goal every other game? Are you sure?

Veleno and Cholo haven't shown that they are capable NHL players. A 2nd in a deal for a guy like Laine is almost completely worthless. It's like Gagner being tossed into the AA deal. That wasn't why Detroit made the deal, it was just a meh level sweetner.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Ovechikn drafted by current team
Matthews drafted by current team
Kucherov drafted by current team
Draisaitl drafted by current team
McDavid drafted by current team.

I am sorry but who the hell is pasta?

Ovechkin 22 year old and 18 year old McDavid are the 2 players I would for sure selling every single asset Lindrose style and starting at absolute zero. It doesn't matter how good Lanie is one dimensionally at one aspect of the game to compare with these players. If you give up your entire future to get a one dimensional goal scoring winger your rebuild is over before it started. It doesn't matter if any of those players were considered one dimensional at one point, drafting a one dimensional player and selling your entire farm for a one dimensional player are two entirely different discussions.

All of those players are with their original team for a reason. The fact that Lanie is even on the market should scream volumes. If he was in their tier he wouldn't be available.

David Pastrnak. That is Pasta.

Laine is a guy that you can build around with a bunch of other core pieces if you draft him. He's not THE nucleus for a roster like a McDavid or Ovechkin or Crosby were so you wouldn't pay that kind of price for him.

 

[Winger98]

Also, I don't have a problem with liking and wanting to trade for Patrik Laine. He's a fabulous player. But Winnipeg isn't letting him go for less than Larkin or Seider+. And for our roster, that's way past a bridge too far. Mantha+ for him doesn't make sense unless that plus is almost on the level of Mantha too. For all the reasons you state, Winger, Winnipeg wouldn't want to deal Laine. If they are in their window right now, Laine is the better win-now piece than Mantha. Laine is better than Mantha. And the Wings don't have a second "win-now" piece that makes any sense for Winnipeg while also still making sense for Detroit to surrender it.

Because Mantha + 1st? That does nothing for win now. Mantha + Larkin is way too much. Mantha + Zadina, way too much. Mantha + Bertuzzi, maybe, but do you want to trade two really good wingers who provide different things for one great one who is by far a better scorer than either, but a worse defender than both?

9M on a contract for a star wing? I've got no problem paying that. But I don't want to pay that and also give up two top 6 wingers or even more. Really pessimistic outlook on it? Say we trade for Laine and he's what TG2V thinks he is. By the time we are competing for anything... he's 26-27 and all of a sudden everyone is head over heels for the next 20 year old... like "let's trade everything we've got to try to get Aatu Raty!"

I never said Winny did want to trade him. I thought the story was that Laine was wanting out and we're basing his availability on, at some point, that issue being pushed. And it's not like Winny has a good history of mending bridges with guys. If laine is legitimately unhappy and wants out, a deal is going to be made at some point. And when the deal goes down it will probably be for less than people think.

My offer would be something like Mantha, Cholo, 2nd. Maybe a second 2nd if we have one sitting around. I don't think laine will garner an offer that would include a player like Mantha and the sort of 1st rounder we are likely looking at the next couple of years - with or without Laine.

And I like Laine at 26/27 a lot more than Mantha at 30/31 if that is when we're contending. If we're solidly in the playoffs, folks aren't going to care nearly as much about who is being drafted first. Unless we NYR our way to it.

"Mantha + Veleno + Tuomisto for Laine" value may/may not be there for either side though, not just the Jets. Veleno & Mantha are the type of players you can win with, add to your core. Laine is virtually a 1-dimensional, way overpriced, soon to be mercinary.

Veleno isn't even a guy the Griffins can win with.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I am seeing snipets of seider/larkin and our 2021 pick in this thread and that becomes a hard stop for me. No way I trade those assets for a one dimensional offensive winger. We can't afford to pay what WPG wants for this player and I don't want to see the rebuild center around Phill Kesse eh hmm I mean Laine. Laine is now the new Krug, one dimensional bad fit for our rebuild. You guys just can't resist.

That is the Jets fan coming in. It's also probably realistically what Winnipeg would be looking for. They want to trade Laine before they have to pay him, but they don't NEED to.

There is also like two people in this topic remotely interested in making this trade in any way, shape, or form. I'm okay with it if it's reasonably cheap (upgrade Mantha into Laine at the cost of Cholowski and a 2nd) but if it's anything but a bargain price, I'm out.

 

[Bench]

I am sorry but who the hell is pasta?

They played his Dunkin' ads a lot during the playoffs. I figured we were all chill calling him Pasta.



Get it? Cause he's a Bruin.

 

[r0bert8841]

I haven’t seen Rasmussen mentioned at all in this topic. How would people feel about Mantha + Rasmussen + 2nd? It wouldn’t surprise me if Rasmussen has more trade value due to draft position and size.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Ovechikn drafted by current team
Matthews drafted by current team
Kucherov drafted by current team
Draisaitl drafted by current team
McDavid drafted by current team.

I am sorry but who the hell is pasta?

Ovechkin 22 year old and 18 year old McDavid are the 2 players I would for sure selling every single asset Lindrose style and starting at absolute zero. It doesn't matter how good Lanie is one dimensionally at one aspect of the game to compare with these players. If you give up your entire future to get a one dimensional goal scoring winger your rebuild is over before it started. It doesn't matter if any of those players were considered one dimensional at one point, drafting a one dimensional player and selling your entire farm for a one dimensional player are two entirely different discussions.

All of those players are with their original team for a reason. The fact that Lanie is even on the market should scream volumes. If he was in their tier he wouldn't be available.

Pastrnak is pasta.

And I agree, don't want to pay for Laine. Cap and assets.

 

[TCNorthstars]

They played his Dunkin' ads a lot during the playoffs. I figured we were all chill calling him Pasta.



Get it? Cause he's a Bruin.

Hey ref check your voicemail you missed a few calls.

He is great in those commercials.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

They played his Dunkin' ads a lot during the playoffs. I figured we were all chill calling him Pasta.



Get it? Cause he's a Bruin.

I call him Pasta because I always pause on how he spells his name. He isn't my team so I am not really obligated to learn it. I know I should know it. Pastrnak is what I think it is but I can never remember if I am doing it right without a vowel on either side of the r, I don't think so, but hence why I generally call him Pasta if I am going to own when I am doing it...

Would not trade for Laine, I don't know what the price would be, but it will be too much. Though you have to wonder at times he was a lot more physical and looked more engaged (specifically when guys were down and he played first line minutes) so you wonder if he is a guy that snaps in and plays harder as everyone has wanted after he is dealt. Given that he is pursuing the deal and pressuring the Jets I doubt that a little, but I think that is really the only pause on Laine. We assume he kind of is who he is, but man if he views this as a kick in the ass and starts to care about more than just goal-scoring more often he could be a terrifying player. He has a ton of talent, I for the record think he stays who he has been which is why I wouldn't trade for him and then lock him up for 10+ million. I have to acknowledge though given his talent, if he does get super motivated by this 50 goal seasons and better all around play should be happening with the new team. Guy is going to score for a long time in this league, his shot is that good.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

Replace Raymond with Seider then yes.

Wow, hard pass then. Likely #1 d-man for a winger not named Shanahan or Hull, yeah no thanks.

 

[Bench]

I call him Pasta because I always pause on how he spells his name.

Same.

I learned Vasilevskiy. I paid my dues.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Ok, so you make the call. It's just not a realistic idea. You ask the question to see what they want for him, just like you do any other player who is on the market.



For a player who is 22 averaging about a goal every other game? Are you sure?

Veleno and Cholo haven't shown that they are capable NHL players. A 2nd in a deal for a guy like Laine is almost completely worthless. It's like Gagner being tossed into the AA deal. That wasn't why Detroit made the deal, it was just a meh level sweetner.

It's called a negotiation. When you go to the dealership you don't give them your bottom line price first offer. It doesn't hurt to ask. But if you never ask you don't get shit! We are f***ing terrible you have to see what's going on...

 

[19 for president]

I'd consider Mantha only because of age. I think Laine fits our timeline a bit better age wise. Which is also why I don't trade Zadina for him. Wings can afford Laine and Mantha.

I will say that a lot of players really seem to dislike Peg.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's called a negotiation. When you go to the dealership you don't give them your bottom line price first offer. It doesn't hurt to ask. But if you never ask you don't get shit! We are f***ing terrible you have to see what's going on...

No, you have to see what’s going on. We are terrible. If we swap out even Mantha, Cholo, and a second for Laine, assuming Winnipeg would even do that (I strongly believe they wouldn’t), we would still be terrible. We would still need a shit ton of luck and time to build out the roster and we would still be lacking an actual top line C and a legit, all situations top pairing D.

We would be using assets to turn a 26 year old strength on our roster (Mantha as a wing) into a more expensive bigger strength (Laine as a wing)

Laine is fantastic, but he doesn’t improve the Wings enough for what he’d cost. Instead of having to pony up big assets and big dollars for Laine, I’d rather spend my time trying to pry Zach Werenski out of CBJ or Aleksander Barkov out of Florida. Shit, let me see a huge package put together for Barzal out of NYI or even use Stevie’s relationship with Briesbois and the Lightning and their shitty cap situation to spirit away Stamkos or Sergachev or Cirelli.

Acquiring Laine would be a luxury. It would improve us because he’s an elite talent, but it would be like the Lions adding Jeff Okudah or TJ Hockenson. Even though they have elite talent, they’re at lower value positions. A wing that can’t drive a line by himself like Kane or Panarin is of lower value than a top C or a top pairing D.

If we are going to ask for an aggressive move to add a young, elite piece, I’m interested in going whole f***ing hog and say Larkin + Mantha or Zadina + another high value asset and let’s get Barkov. Top 3 protected 1st and maybe something else and welcome Werenski home.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I haven’t seen Rasmussen mentioned at all in this topic. How would people feel about Mantha + Rasmussen + 2nd? It wouldn’t surprise me if Rasmussen has more trade value due to draft position and size.

Where do I sign? lol

 

[kliq]

I'd consider Mantha only because of age. I think Laine fits our timeline a bit better age wise. Which is also why I don't trade Zadina for him. Wings can afford Laine and Mantha.

I will say that a lot of players really seem to dislike Peg.

I was against the trade, however this is a very good point. Mantha is a candidate to see his play decline in the next 3-5 years, while Laine will be 25 in 3 years right in the middle of his prime.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

No, you have to see what’s going on. We are terrible. If we swap out even Mantha, Cholo, and a second for Laine, assuming Winnipeg would even do that (I strongly believe they wouldn’t), we would still be terrible. We would still need a shit ton of luck and time to build out the roster and we would still be lacking an actual top line C and a legit, all situations top pairing D.

We would be using assets to turn a 26 year old strength on our roster (Mantha as a wing) into a more expensive bigger strength (Laine as a wing)

Laine is fantastic, but he doesn’t improve the Wings enough for what he’d cost. Instead of having to pony up big assets and big dollars for Laine, I’d rather spend my time trying to pry Zach Werenski out of CBJ or Aleksander Barkov out of Florida. Shit, let me see a huge package put together for Barzal out of NYI or even use Stevie’s relationship with Briesbois and the Lightning and their shitty cap situation to spirit away Stamkos or Sergachev or Cirelli.

Acquiring Laine would be a luxury. It would improve us because he’s an elite talent, but it would be like the Lions adding Jeff Okudah or TJ Hockenson. Even though they have elite talent, they’re at lower value positions. A wing that can’t drive a line by himself like Kane or Panarin is of lower value than a top C or a top pairing D.

If we are going to ask for an aggressive move to add a young, elite piece, I’m interested in going whole f***ing hog and say Larkin + Mantha or Zadina + another high value asset and let’s get Barkov. Top 3 protected 1st and maybe something else and welcome Werenski home.

Will we ever have someone on a list like this???



He is the youngest too on this list btw. And sorry guys it doesn't have his +/- also btw that's a TEAM STAT!....

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Enjoy 50 games of Mantha every year guys....

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Enjoy 50 games of Mantha every year guys....

You can’t force Winnipeg to trade him to you. For the same reasons you want Laine, they want to keep him. Or they want to get a f***ing haul for him.

You aren’t going to get Patrik Laine at 22 for Mantha + other assets that won’t hurt the rebuild.

Hell, I don’t even think Winnipeg would be interested in Mantha. Would you want a package centered on Seider, the 2021 1st, or Larkin +? Because that’s a far more realistic price than Mantha + a GR C (Veleno, Ras, etc) + a 2nd.

Yzerman is a good GM, he’s not a miracle worker.

I mean, fine, ask the price. Don’t be surprised if it’s too damn high. Teams don’t tend to trade a Laine for a cheap price even if that player wants off the roster.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Will we ever have someone on a list like this???



He is the youngest too on this list btw. And sorry guys it doesn't have his +/- also btw that's a TEAM STAT!....

I am just saying if we are going to pay the price for Laine, let’s actually go super aggressive and try to get a guy like Barkov who is a truly elite C. Instead of picking a sniper wing for a high price, why shouldn’t we look for a top C at a crazy price? If we want to throw a bunch of assets at acquiring a young, elite piece, let’s get one that actually addresses the crazy dearth of talent at important places.

Two of our three best prospects are high end wingers. Shouldn’t you hope/think that Raymond and Zadina will hit? Do we have a true 1c? If you consider Larkin to be one... do we have a true 2C? Veleno and Rasmussen might have promise, but them hitting that level is pretty damn optimistic.

 

[ricky0034]

Will we ever have someone on a list like this???



He is the youngest too on this list btw. And sorry guys it doesn't have his +/- also btw that's a TEAM STAT!....

and the last 2 years he's basically identical statistically to Evander Kane