Player Discussion: Laine (Mod warning OP)

[Farmboy Patty]

Most are, but actually there is also pretty odd phenomenom among Finns hockey fans that passionately hate Laine. That's a minority, but not a very small one. Some of my close friends and co-workers are on that camp.

For example Teemu Selänne, Jari Kurri and Alexander Barkov Jr. never had such anti-fan clubs that Laine has and for example Olli Jokinen had, though in lesser degree.

I know through my own experience that Finns that act confident and somewhat cocky rub a lot of people the wrong way in Finland. Having lived in both Sweden and Finland for many years I know the cultural difference. Of course we have the same crap in Sweden as well with "jantelag" and what not, but Finland is no place for individuals IMO. I still love the country and the people are fantastic in their own way, of course

Because of his personality and cockiness (and sadly, heritage as well), Zlatan has always had a dedicated (and quite large) group of haters in Sweden, although he is arguably one of the top 10 most entertaining football players in the world for over a decade now. He wouldn't be half the player that he is now if he didn't have his larger than life ego and confidence.

The same goes for guys like Laine – the attempts to squueze him into the standard mold of a robotic hockey player is detrimental for a goal scoring artist like him. He is at his best when he's feeling it and having fun, scoring hattricks, celebrating on ice with passion, and speaking his mind on interviews. I wish that my buddies in Finland just let the guy be himself and enjoy our superstar in the making.

 

[Halberdier]

By mobility are you are referring to skating or mobility as it relates to his back issues?

They apparently use term "Functional Range Conditioning". For example in following video I guess they are extending functional rotational range for Laine's back and shoulders:



The back story seems to be that former Stanley Cup winner and currently a FEL coach (fired yesterday, btw.) Ville Nieminen has had good results with his younger players doing that conditioning with this particular trainer (No Limit Performance, Tampere). Ville then suggested the trainer for Barkov and Laine.

Article in Finnish with couple of more videos:
Patrik Laine irvistää, tärisee ja ähisee kovassa treenissä – videot näyttävät Suomen NHL-tähtien rääkin

Rotational movement is crucial for shooting so hopefully they get great results.

 

[ps241]

They apparently use term "Functional Range Conditioning". For example in following video I guess they are extending functional rotational range for Laine's back and shoulders:



The back story seems to be that former Stanley Cup winner and currently a FEL coach (fired yesterday, btw.) Ville Nieminen has had good results with his younger players doing that conditioning with this particular trainer (No Limit Performance, Tampere). Ville then suggested the trainer for Barkov and Laine.

Article in Finnish with couple of more videos:
Patrik Laine irvistää, tärisee ja ähisee kovassa treenissä – videot näyttävät Suomen NHL-tähtien rääkin

Rotational movement is crucial for shooting so hopefully they get great results.

Cool thanks for the story!

I had a bad back for a brief period and it’s incredibly debilitating. I am fortunate it was temporary.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Cool thanks for the story!

I had a bad back for a brief period and it’s incredibly debilitating. I am fortunate it was temporary.

I got a bad back right before I started a new job a couple of years ago. It was incredibly hard, not to say impossible to just will through it. I would leave all meetings as the last person and say that I was just finishing some notes and would catch up with the others later. Truth was that It took me 10 minutes to straighten my back and I didn't want to walk hunched over in the new place

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

They apparently use term "Functional Range Conditioning". For example in following video I guess they are extending functional rotational range for Laine's back and shoulders:



The back story seems to be that former Stanley Cup winner and currently a FEL coach (fired yesterday, btw.) Ville Nieminen has had good results with his younger players doing that conditioning with this particular trainer (No Limit Performance, Tampere). Ville then suggested the trainer for Barkov and Laine.

Article in Finnish with couple of more videos:
Patrik Laine irvistää, tärisee ja ähisee kovassa treenissä – videot näyttävät Suomen NHL-tähtien rääkin

Rotational movement is crucial for shooting so hopefully they get great results.

Google translated, I can't vouch for its accuracy.

We talked to Patrik Laine of Winnipeg Jets ⁠ @patriklaine about the shortcomings of many training programs
Many exercise programs are based on practices that have been done for ages and ages. Movement batteries, such as bench press and squats, are almost invariably straight in every training program, regardless of the goal, and their omission is perceived as highly questionable.
The problem here is that most often people want to improve their physical qualities as a person compared to their goal, rather than their ability to do something in a particular movement more easily.
For example, if you want to be better at hockey (like Patrik), then does it make sense to train the same motion batteries as, say, a bodybuilder?
It is time and reason to practice bench press, for example. If your sport / goal requires you to fully load yourself in a certain movement and thereby increase more muscle mass in your chest muscles (e.g. bodybuilding), bench press is for you. But if your sport / goal requires effective warm-up, then you will also need exercises that bring more strength to other trajectories required for warm-up (spinal rotation, outer rotation of the shoulder joint, etc.).
It is wrong to assume that just a good maximum result in bench press is directed directly to the warm-up movement! ✍
The next time you go to work out, ask yourself: why am I doing these very exercises, compare them to your goal, and think about whether your training will accomplish other movements required by your goal?

 

[Halberdier]

Google translated, I can't vouch for its accuracy.

We talked to Patrik Laine of Winnipeg Jets ⁠ @patriklaine about the shortcomings of many training programs
Many exercise programs are based on practices that have been done for ages and ages. Movement batteries, such as bench press and squats, are almost invariably straight in every training program, regardless of the goal, and their omission is perceived as highly questionable.
The problem here is that most often people want to improve their physical qualities as a person compared to their goal, rather than their ability to do something in a particular movement more easily.
For example, if you want to be better at hockey (like Patrik), then does it make sense to train the same motion batteries as, say, a bodybuilder?
It is time and reason to practice bench press, for example. If your sport / goal requires you to fully load yourself in a certain movement and thereby increase more muscle mass in your chest muscles (e.g. bodybuilding), bench press is for you. But if your sport / goal requires effective warm-up, then you will also need exercises that bring more strength to other trajectories required for warm-up (spinal rotation, outer rotation of the shoulder joint, etc.).
It is wrong to assume that just a good maximum result in bench press is directed directly to the warm-up movement! ✍
The next time you go to work out, ask yourself: why am I doing these very exercises, compare them to your goal, and think about whether your training will accomplish other movements required by your goal?

Actually pretty good translation for an automatic one, but that "warm-up" twice in above should be "shot".

So to get better at shooting pucks you need to have something other than just cool bench press results, namely good mobility.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Actually pretty good translation for an automatic one, but that "warm-up" twice in above should be "shot".

So to get better at shooting pucks you need to have something other than just cool bench press results, namely good mobility.

Shot makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

 

[JetsUK]

They apparently use term "Functional Range Conditioning". For example in following video I guess they are extending functional rotational range for Laine's back and shoulders:



The back story seems to be that former Stanley Cup winner and currently a FEL coach (fired yesterday, btw.) Ville Nieminen has had good results with his younger players doing that conditioning with this particular trainer (No Limit Performance, Tampere). Ville then suggested the trainer for Barkov and Laine.

Article in Finnish with couple of more videos:
Patrik Laine irvistää, tärisee ja ähisee kovassa treenissä – videot näyttävät Suomen NHL-tähtien rääkin

Rotational movement is crucial for shooting so hopefully they get great results.

Google translated, I can't vouch for its accuracy.

We talked to Patrik Laine of Winnipeg Jets ⁠ @patriklaine about the shortcomings of many training programs
Many exercise programs are based on practices that have been done for ages and ages. Movement batteries, such as bench press and squats, are almost invariably straight in every training program, regardless of the goal, and their omission is perceived as highly questionable.
The problem here is that most often people want to improve their physical qualities as a person compared to their goal, rather than their ability to do something in a particular movement more easily.
For example, if you want to be better at hockey (like Patrik), then does it make sense to train the same motion batteries as, say, a bodybuilder?
It is time and reason to practice bench press, for example. If your sport / goal requires you to fully load yourself in a certain movement and thereby increase more muscle mass in your chest muscles (e.g. bodybuilding), bench press is for you. But if your sport / goal requires effective warm-up, then you will also need exercises that bring more strength to other trajectories required for warm-up (spinal rotation, outer rotation of the shoulder joint, etc.).
It is wrong to assume that just a good maximum result in bench press is directed directly to the warm-up movement! ✍
The next time you go to work out, ask yourself: why am I doing these very exercises, compare them to your goal, and think about whether your training will accomplish other movements required by your goal?

Actually pretty good translation for an automatic one, but that "warm-up" twice in above should be "shot".

So to get better at shooting pucks you need to have something other than just cool bench press results, namely good mobility.

Very interesting -- thanks chaps.

Feel like I've seen versions of this technique, with the ball stabilizing the core, done in sports physio, though not aimed specifically at hockey players. Makes sense though, and anything that helps get Pate back in the groove while being kind to his spine is a plus.

 

[backwards motion]

This has been so hot topic and couldn't keep up it all since... I don't know how, but I had more things other than Jets's board, sorry about that.

Anyways, I still hope that Laine is in Winnipeg to stay. Before draft and thing, I had no real bias from the teams in FEL, but felt very connected to Winnipeg. History and the people. Still protective of one Finland talent, sure. I admit that, but since I had no bias with Finnish Liiga about Laine's position (and hated the Finnish jelousness, while they were minority, but it did excist as well as the neverending feed of Laine in tabloids), just the talent, I might have not being player first, just liked to watch Winnipeg. Even though it took a lot of sleep out of me...

All that being said, I've always been a supporter of Winnipeg. Numminen and Selänne are the roots of it, before I even know about forums, or if there were any.

I have no bad blood in this, I will give support to you, but I totally hope Laine is a part of it to give me something extra. Some excitement. Not to sound selfish...

Sorry about the text of wall, but I'm really tired of all the gossip that nothing really is known or happened really. I don't know. Feels weird, but man does this thread have momentum. Stay safe people. I'll be here every once in a while at least.

 

[PhilJets]

Very good discussion on Laine now,nice

Nice to know they worked on that back.
He is training his core.
And most importanly improving still one of the best arsenal of shots in the league.

 

[Halberdier]

All that being said, I've always been a supporter of Winnipeg. Numminen and Selänne are the roots of it, before I even know about forums, or if there were any.

This, exactly.

Ps. no, there were no forums. Basically there was no Internet in wide use back then . There was just Wayne Gretzky Hockey 1 and 2 and some newspapers to read about.

 

[Easternbull]

Just a reminder when pointing fingers at Laine's defensive game. Other premium goal scorers also have some work to do.

Look at this stat of Leon Draisaitl from this season:

"Draisaitl became just the second player in NHL history to lead the league in points (110) and have a minus rating (-7), joining Wayne Gretzky in 1993-94 (130 points, -25 rating"

66 of those 110 points are even strength points.

 

[Halberdier]

Just a reminder when pointing fingers at Laine's defensive game. Other premium goal scorers also have some work to do.

Look at this stat of Leon Draisaitl from this season:

"Draisaitl became just the second player in NHL history to lead the league in points (110) and have a minus rating (-7), joining Wayne Gretzky in 1993-94 (130 points, -25 rating"

66 of those 110 points are even strenght points.

Minus rating is pretty typical when you play PP, no PK. If you also play all those "with empty net" -situations and not much "against empty net", minus rating is almost inevitable.

The only reasonable stat is 5-on-5 goal differential and even that is relative to the rest of the team, as on a bad team with terrible goalie or line mates your goal differential will likely suck anyway.

5-on-5 stats:
Draisaitl was on ice for 69 goals for (tied for 3rd place in NHL), 62 goals against in 71 games. That's +7.

Scheifele 71 games, 67 GF (6th), 65 GA, +2.

Laine 68 games, 53 GF (tied 63rd), 49 GA, +4.

As we know, Laine is third for the Jets in 5-on-5 goal differential for his 4 seasons + post seasons. And would be 1st without his bad 18-19 season. So I don't think people should be worried about Laine's defensive ability. It's still better than anyone on TOP-6 not named Ehlers (or Stastny).

FYI, these were just animals:

Panarin NYR 73 GF, 38 GA, +35
Point T.B 66 GF, 35 GA, +33
Josi NSH 74 GF, 45 GA, +29
MacKinnon COL 69 GF, 45 GA, +24

 

[Ippenator]

I know through my own experience that Finns that act confident and somewhat cocky rub a lot of people the wrong way in Finland. Having lived in both Sweden and Finland for many years I know the cultural difference. Of course we have the same crap in Sweden as well with "jantelag" and what not, but Finland is no place for individuals IMO. I still love the country and the people are fantastic in their own way, of course

Because of his personality and cockiness (and sadly, heritage as well), Zlatan has always had a dedicated (and quite large) group of haters in Sweden, although he is arguably one of the top 10 most entertaining football players in the world for over a decade now. He wouldn't be half the player that he is now if he didn't have his larger than life ego and confidence.

The same goes for guys like Laine – the attempts to squueze him into the standard mold of a robotic hockey player is detrimental for a goal scoring artist like him. He is at his best when he's feeling it and having fun, scoring hattricks, celebrating on ice with passion, and speaking his mind on interviews. I wish that my buddies in Finland just let the guy be himself and enjoy our superstar in the making.

I absolutely looveee Zlatan! Best soccer player ever! Seriously! And part of it is for sure his attitude, but also that with his cockiness he is the greatest club soccer winner of all times. Just look at his winning history. Winning the championships with every possible club that he has played for and even several times with some of them. And usually those clubs have been in serious championship droughts before and after Zlatan was there. And the goals that he has scored! Just absolutely insane! And that he is doing that still at his age as a forward! An absolute stud and legend! Just love the guy, no matter that he is Swedish.

And what I have exactly loved about Laine has been exactly the slight hint of a bit similar attitude. Not even close to Zlatan with it, but anyway something that Finnish players way too rarely have. Of course Laine has ways to go by many ways to be an insane hockey player. I do still believe that he has the chance of becoming that. But he needs to fix some of his physical problems that he has had for most of his hockey career. But he seems to be on the right track with the physiotherapists that he is using with his training.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

This, exactly.

Ps. no, there were no forums. Basically there was no Internet in wide use back then . There was just Wayne Gretzky Hockey 1 and 2 and some newspapers to read about.

There were Usenet discussion groups back in the 80's. Completely unmoderated, not for the faint of heart. I miss flame wars.

 

[backwards motion]

This, exactly.

Ps. no, there were no forums. Basically there was no Internet in wide use back then . There was just Wayne Gretzky Hockey 1 and 2 and some newspapers to read about.

LOL, I remember playing Wayne Gretzky Hockey. Quite the graphics on that...

Also remember the days when in the morning I woke to basicly check "text tv" for NHL scores. So very high tech days, but haven't moved my mind about Winnipeg. Social media really amps things up right know, even if there's nothing behind statements.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

I absolutely looveee Zlatan! Best soccer player ever! Seriously! And part of it is for sure his attitude, but also that with his cockiness he is the greatest club soccer winner of all times. Just look at his winning history. Winning the championships with every possible club that he has played for and even several times with some of them. And usually those clubs have been in serious championship droughts before and after Zlatan was there. And the goals that he has scored! Just absolutely insane! And that he is doing that still at his age as a forward! An absolute stud and legend! Just love the guy, no matter that he is Swedish.

And what I have exactly loved about Laine has been exactly the slight hint of a bit similar attitude. Not even close to Zlatan with it, but anyway something that Finnish players way too rarely have. Of course Laine has ways to go by many ways to be an insane hockey player. I do still believe that he has the chance of becoming that. But he needs to fix some of his physical problems that he has had for most of his hockey career. But he seems to be on the right track with the physiotherapists that he is using with his training.

Can I give this post 10 likes? Always fun to meet/find a fellow Zlatan fan. He has that swag that makes him extra fun to watch playing and listening to in interviews. Laine has the same traits, he just needs to walk his own path and not give a s&@ about what haters think. I mean, seriously, We’ve got ourselves a real gem here in Laine. He is a swan, damn it. I think next season will be his final breakthrough to the very elite group of players in the league.

 

[buggs]

There were Usenet discussion groups back in the 80's. Completely unmoderated, not for the faint of heart. I miss flame wars.

I read this and went 80s? Nah, couldn't be 80s. Then I gots ta thinkin' and doin' my guzzintas and danged if you weren't correct. Lord I'm old. GeoCities. Chuckle.

 

[DashingDane]

Can I give this post 10 likes? Always fun to meet/find a fellow Zlatan fan. He has that swag that makes him extra fun to watch playing and listening to in interviews. Laine has the same traits, he just needs to walk his own path and not give a s&@ about what haters think. I mean, seriously, We’ve got ourselves a real gem here in Laine. He is a swan, damn it. I think next season will be his final breakthrough to the very elite group of players in the league.

I'm still bitter that he grew up less than 20 min from me and is Swedish And as such he will always be the 2nd best Scandinavian player to play the game

 

[Farmboy Patty]

It would be kind of poetic if the Jets traded Laine for a huge return and won a cup with the assets that came in return, and Laine went on to break goal scoring records and win a cup later with another team.

 

[grieves]

We humans are so extremely poor at taking into account all the variables.

It is a sign of the times to think that giving people things is the way to help them, but that is so rarely the case, and it is a possibility that this is exactly the route that needed to happen to compress this kid into a diamond.

Laine is entering his prime now (or in the MacKinnon'esque near-future) with a half a dozen of **** sandwiches eaten and a chip on his shoulder with an extra side of defensive ability.

**** sandwiches will be eaten in the future also, but perhaps not by Laine this time around.

 

[Heldig]

Minus rating is pretty typical when you play PP, no PK. If you also play all those "with empty net" -situations and not much "against empty net", minus rating is almost inevitable.

The only reasonable stat is 5-on-5 goal differential and even that is relative to the rest of the team, as on a bad team with terrible goalie or line mates your goal differential will likely suck anyway.

5-on-5 stats:
Draisaitl was on ice for 69 goals for (tied for 3rd place in NHL), 62 goals against in 71 games. That's +7.

Scheifele 71 games, 67 GF (6th), 65 GA, +2.

Laine 68 games, 53 GF (tied 63rd), 49 GA, +4.

As we know, Laine is third for the Jets in 5-on-5 goal differential for his 4 seasons + post seasons. And would be 1st without his bad 18-19 season. So I don't think people should be worried about Laine's defensive ability. It's still better than anyone on TOP-6 not named Ehlers (or Stastny).

FYI, these were just animals:

Panarin NYR 73 GF, 38 GA, +35
Point T.B 66 GF, 35 GA, +33
Josi NSH 74 GF, 45 GA, +29
MacKinnon COL 69 GF, 45 GA, +24

That would be a great stat to show all the time.

 

[ps241]

I really enjoy Laine’s unique personality. I don’t find it off putting at all. I want to see his game grow but his personality can stay just.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Laine
Matty P
Buff
Breath of fresh air
Even Wheeler in that group

They are passionate or don’t give a flying flip about what others think

 

[Jets 31]

Laine
Matty P
Buff
Breath of fresh air
Even Wheeler in that group

They are passionate or don’t give a flying flip about what others think

I would add Ehlers in that group, every time you watch the guy he always looks like he's having fun. Smiling all the time and seeing his love for the game is great, just don't piss him off or pay the price.