LaFontaine vs Hawerchuk

[Ziostilon]

Don't really want to make the strictly a poll question.
I'd like to hear what made you like one player over the other. the qualities that they have as a player and as a person.
Theres quite a bit of LaFontaine fans out there, what made you adore him?

Who is the better player?
Dale Hawerchuk or Patrick Michael LaFontaine

Click to read more...

 

[Big Phil]

Hawerchuk for sure.

Nothing against Lafontaine, he was a dangerous explosive offensive threat and a real treat to watch, but when comparing him to Hawerchuk there are a few disadvantages.

- Hawerchuk was better defensively
- Hawerchuk was a better playoff performer despite being on a worse team
- Hawerchuk was more consistent (one of only two players to get at least 80 points or more for 13 straight seasons, the other is Gretzky, look it up)
- Peak value is closer than one might think. We all look at Lafontaine's 1993 season and while it was a beauty it isn't a whole lot different, if any, than Hawerchuk in 1985. Both were 2nd in Hart voting and Lafontaine was 2nd with 148 points while Hawerchuk was 3rd with 130 points.

Bottom line is I do adore Lafontaine. He was special and a heck of a player. He belongs in the HHOF despite a few people in the minority suggesting otherwise. He was a unique talent, but he had an inability to stay healthy and that hurts him vs. Hawerchuk. Plus he never carried a team anywhere and while Hawerchuk didn't the truth is he was a lot less to blame for his team's misfortunes in the playoffs.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Tough one.

Patty was a better goal scorer and creating his own chances.

Hawerchuk was a better playmaker and literally had nothing to work with (with all due respect to Paul Maclean and Andrew Macbain)

I'll say Hawerchuk, only because of 13-straight 80-plus point seasons (most of which were 90-plus)

 

[tony d]

Close but I went with Dale Hawerchuk

 

[lextune]

Ducky.

For all the reasons laid out by Big Phil.

Another great one is that in his rookie year he led the Jets to what was at the time the largest single season turn-around in NHL history, a 48-point improvement.

 

[seventieslord]

Gotta go with Hawerchuk. Lafontaine has the better peak, but not by very much. Hawerchuk was a better all-around player and leader, and has greater career value. Lafontaine was more dazzling, Hawerchuk more efficient. Both suffered from having very mediocre linemates for a long time. Hawerchuk was able to rise above this more often.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Career Hawerchuk, prime Lafontaine by a bit.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Definitely Hawerchuk. My spastic hands voted for Lafontaine by accident though.

 

[unknown33]

Dale Hawerchuk.

 

[King Woodballs]

Had to say Ducky
simpley because he did the same or more with less
ALLOT less

But I loved Patty
I think he could have one of the all time greats had he not had his brain turn to mush

 

[Shawa666]

Dale, by a squeek.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Just to play Devil's advocate here, when both were teammates, Lafontaine did look a whole lot better. Hawerchuk was only 2 years older than Lafontaine.

Hawerchuk, for whatever reason, had a very early peak and then dropped to an 80-90 pt player. Having seen him, Sakic and Yzerman from day one of their respective careers, I'm shocked that Hawerchuk wasn't at their level, career wise, since IMO his first 8 years are superior to either guy and they looked liked very comparable talents. It's not as if he was derailed by injuries like Lafontaine was.

 

[seventieslord]

Dale, by a squeek.

You mean by a quack?

Hawerchuk, for whatever reason, had a very early peak and then dropped to an 80-90 pt player. Having seen him, Sakic and Yzerman from day one of their respective careers, I'm shocked that Hawerchuk wasn't at their level, career wise, since IMO his first 8 years are superior to either guy and they looked liked very comparable talents. It's not as if he was derailed by injuries like Lafontaine was.

It wasn't as bad as you think. Hawerchuk's decline (at an age that was still pretty normal at the time) coincided with the drop in scoring at the start of the 90s. It was pretty high scoring, just not what we were used to.

If you look at his adjusted points per game at age 29/30, it's actually as impressive as what he was doing in teh early 80s at age 18/19.

I also think based on this, that Yzerman's first 8 years were definitely better than Dale's, with lafontaine far behind both. Lafontaine starts to close the gap on them after that, though, with his two great seasons at 26 and 27.

Hawerchuk didn't age as gracefully as Yzerman (and we can't really say how Lafontaine aged or would have aged), but those years where he was "just" an 80-90-point player were still excellent seasons. They were just as good as a whole (1.07 APPG), as his eight prior seasons, with the aberrational 1985 and 1988 removed. (1.10 APPG)

Age | Lafontaine | Hawerchuk | Yzerman
18 | 1.07 | 1.03 | 0.93
19 | 0.69 | 1.01 | 0.96
20 | 0.69 | 1.09 | 0.71
21 | 0.81 | 1.41 | 1.05
22 | 1.12 | 1.11 | 1.47
23 | 1.01 | 1.18 | 1.76
24 | 1.31 | 1.39 | 1.49
25 | 1.12 | 1.16 | 1.34
26 | 1.58 | 0.95 | 1.27
27 | 1.55 | 1.1 | 1.43
28 | 1.13 | 1.23 | 1.4
29 | 1.38 | 1.04 | 0.92
30 | 1.25 | 1.04 | 1.23
31 | 0.69 | 0.79 | 1.17
32 | 1.13 | 0.77 | 1.15
33 | | 0.75 | 1.14
34 | | | 1.18
35 | | | 1.11
36 | | | 1.13
37 | | | 0.56
38 | | | 0.85
39 | | |
40 | | | 0.57

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Both great players. And both were great offensive players as soon as they entered the league. But I like Hawerchuk a liitle better.

Thought it was a travesty that Hawerchuk didn't get into the HHOF in his first year of eligibility.

 

[Legionnaire]

Lafontaine. Much more dynamic and could take over a game like only Mario and Gretz could. He was easily on par with Yzerman ability wise, and if not for concussions he would have been close career wise.

 

[Legionnaire]

Just to play Devil's advocate here, when both were teammates, Lafontaine did look a whole lot better. Hawerchuk was only 2 years older than Lafontaine.

Hawerchuk, for whatever reason, had a very early peak and then dropped to an 80-90 pt player. Having seen him, Sakic and Yzerman from day one of their respective careers, I'm shocked that Hawerchuk wasn't at their level, career wise, since IMO his first 8 years are superior to either guy and they looked liked very comparable talents. It's not as if he was derailed by injuries like Lafontaine was.

Definitely. Lafontaine was the guy on that team while Hawerchuk was clearly a step below. Maybe is was the fact that Lala had better chemistry with Mogilny but either way he was the better player.

A young Hawerchuck was poised to be one of the greats, but he lacked fire most nights and that was really the difference between him being very good and a great.

 

[EpochLink]

Hawerchuk for sure.

Nothing against Lafontaine, he was a dangerous explosive offensive threat and a real treat to watch, but when comparing him to Hawerchuk there are a few disadvantages.

- Hawerchuk was better defensively
- Hawerchuk was a better playoff performer despite being on a worse team
- Hawerchuk was more consistent (one of only two players to get at least 80 points or more for 13 straight seasons, the other is Gretzky, look it up)
- Peak value is closer than one might think. We all look at Lafontaine's 1993 season and while it was a beauty it isn't a whole lot different, if any, than Hawerchuk in 1985. Both were 2nd in Hart voting and Lafontaine was 2nd with 148 points while Hawerchuk was 3rd with 130 points.

Bottom line is I do adore Lafontaine. He was special and a heck of a player. He belongs in the HHOF despite a few people in the minority suggesting otherwise. He was a unique talent, but he had an inability to stay healthy and that hurts him vs. Hawerchuk. Plus he never carried a team anywhere and while Hawerchuk didn't the truth is he was a lot less to blame for his team's misfortunes in the playoffs.

Being a Jets fan growing up in Winnipeg, alot of our playoff collapses can be directed to our goaltending and defensive coverage. Your not going to win alot of playoff wins if you have Brian Hayward, Pokey Reddick and Daniel Berthiaume in net. Hawerchuk never did get the credit sometimes because Gretzky dominated the Smythe Division back then but he did get Winnipeg out of the basement once he got drafted and the Jets were sometimes seen as a threat to Edmonton and Calgary. He pretty much was our meal ticket during his time here and add to the fact he made Paul McLean, Andrew McBain, Brian Mullen and Doug Smail 30 goal scorers is something to take not off.

I loved Lafontaine when he played but I went with Hawerchuk on this one..

 

[Darth Joker]

I'm also going to go with Hawerchuk here.

A couple reasons to add to the ones already made:

1. The 1992-93 season was an unusually explosive one, league wide, scoring wise. A lot of players, not just LaFontaine, had career years that year. Mogilny, Selanne, Bure, Recchi, Sundin, Damphousse, Turgeon, Roenick, Gilmour, and many others all had their best year that year. For some of them, this year was far before their prime (age-wise) and for Bure it was his rookie year of all things. If you played a full season on a first line on a NHL team in 1992-93, chances are that this was your career year. Unfortunately for Hawerchuk, he was on the 2nd line that year. With this in mind...

2. Hawerchuk's age-prime years had reduced numbers because he was a 2nd line center for much of that time. This was due to playing on the same team as the younger LaFontaine, somewhat ironically.


This is very close, though.

It would be interesting to hear what Sabres fans who watched both Pat and Dale play in Buffalo have to say on this match-up.

 

[jepjepjoo]

I'm also going to go with Hawerchuk here.

A couple reasons to add to the ones already made:

1. The 1992-93 season was an unusually explosive one, league wide, scoring wise. A lot of players, not just LaFontaine, had career years that year. Mogilny, Selanne, Bure, Recchi, Sundin, Damphousse, Turgeon, Roenick, Gilmour, and many others all had their best year that year. For some of them, this year was far before their prime (age-wise) and for Bure it was his rookie year of all things. If you played a full season on a first line on a NHL team in 1992-93, chances are that this was your career year. Unfortunately for Hawerchuk, he was on the 2nd line that year. With this in mind...

2. Hawerchuk's age-prime years had reduced numbers because he was a 2nd line center for much of that time. This was due to playing on the same team as the younger LaFontaine, somewhat ironically.


This is very close, though.

It would be interesting to hear what Sabres fans who watched both Pat and Dale play in Buffalo have to say on this match-up.

Actually it was Bure's 2nd season.

 

[Axxellien]

Pat Lafontaine:

Pat Lafontaine was the TINTIN of Hockey!!

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Love Lafontaine for the skills (and I think there's little doubt as to whether or not he beats Hawerchuk in a purely "skills" discussion), but give me Hawerchuk any day. Better two-way play (+/- obsessers might take issue with that), more consistent (both in terms of play AND production from regular season to playoffs), "tougher" (certainly missed a LOT fewer games), and in the enough bonus on the career value to make up for Lafontaine's blips on the peak years charts.