Lack of consistency & lack of Discipline are signs of..

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by jg729, Nov 19, 2013.

View Users: View Users
  1. jg729

    jg729 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Lack of leadership.

    I know people don't like to hear it, but I don't think this team wouldn't be where it is today if Alfie was still here.

    They are too talented to be 8-9-4. Success in the last 2 years have made these guys less focused. If there was one thing I remember about Alfie ever since 95/96, it's how consistent his effort and focus was every single night.

    Yes, it's a bit of a rant after a loss. But honestly, I do miss our captain :(
     
  2. Tundraman

    Tundraman GoneCountry

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    10,335
    Likes Received:
    710
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Location:
    North
    Bad coaching and too much player security.
     
  3. Hale The Villain

    Hale The Villain Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    17,030
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Yep, there is a legitimate lack of leadership on this team.

    None of our captains are captain material.

    Spezza is lazy, inconsistent and one-dimensional
    Phillips, despite working hard, just isn't a good defenseman anymore, and shouldn't be mentoring anyone
    Neil is a 4th line enforcer who is looking more and more scratch worthy every game

    On top of this, the coaching staff seems unable to motivate the players and get them working hard on a consistent basis.

    It's a big problem, much larger than a decent portion of our fanbase would like to admit with Alfie leaving in the way he did.
     
  4. blahblah3

    blahblah3 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Alfy's "...Probably not." comment makes way more sense now. I don't blame him for leaving at all, seeing what a mess this team has become.
     
  5. Kellogs

    Kellogs G'night Sweet Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Or it's a sign that the team isn't as good as people believe it to be.

    Personally, I would start looking at our 22, 23 (2X), 24, and 25 year old defensemen.
     
  6. WhiteLight*

    WhiteLight* Guest

    How dare you people call Spezza a bad leader.

    You guys are way overreacting. You should be more level headed, not too high, not too low.

    We fans should accept the product on the ice with no complaints.

    Murray and MacLean and Spezza and the zamboni driver can do no wrong
     
  7. Hale The Villain

    Hale The Villain Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    17,030
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Also I'd argue we aren't actually that talented besides our top end guys.

    You got EK, Ryan, Turris, Spezza as top end guys
    Then MacArthur, Michalek, Zibanejad as middle-tier scoring forwards
    Then you got a black hole of a bottom 6 with Greening, Condra, Conacher, Smith, Neil, Grant, Kassian - all of whom have a combined 9 goals, 19 points in 124 games played.

    That's an average of 13 points in 82GP. Even more alarming, an average of 6 goals a season. If our top end guys aren't scoring, the team isn't scoring.

    We need to call up a couple guys like Hoffman, Stone, even Pageau to get a little bit of secondary scoring in our bottom 6 if we want to win games with our defense playing poorly.
     
  8. arglebargle

    arglebargle Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You're right about it being the D-men, but Phillips and Cowen are the main problem. Replace those two with average NHL D-men with average passing skills and this team would be well over .500.
     
  9. Neil Patrick Harris

    Neil Patrick Harris Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Ottawa
    We should be making a move for a top-four defenseman who can be a veteran presence. Get two birds stoned at once.

    Like what we had with Gonchar.
     
  10. YNWA14

    YNWA14 You'll Never Walk Alone

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    27,233
    Likes Received:
    473
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Interesting perspective. What are your thoughts on the 08/09 and 10/11 seasons? The leadership corps then was obviously much better so how did our team look so bad despite the talent on it? Genuinely curious.

    Also how about last year and the year before when we were getting lit up early in the season. I mean, this team isn't much worse defensively than last year it just isn't getting the same level of goaltending bailing them out night in and night out.
     
  11. SilverSeven

    SilverSeven Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Messages:
    21,503
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Alfie was the leader when a number of our younger players were party animals. Leadership can't stop that stuff.

    I've heard from a few people that Methot and Karlsson are hitting up the bars all the time. Maybe some others are too? It's a bunch of young new rich guys... And they are almost all the same generation. Let's hope it's not a frat house...
     
  12. SilverSeven

    SilverSeven Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Messages:
    21,503
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I agree about Alfie, but this team was much better defensively last year. Last year we could get the puck out of our end. Our biggest problem this year is we can't.

    We are missing Gonchar big time. Why Wiercoch and Corvo aren't playing is beyond me. They might be bad in our own end, but they can at least get the puck out of our end. Are current D is bad in our end and can't get the puck out. We are running with 5 defensive defenceman and I have no clue why.
     
  13. The Waffler

    The Waffler Registered Offender

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    Messages:
    13,193
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Occupation:
    Master Debater
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    They're signs of a team that doesn't play good.
     
  14. ReginKarlssonLehner

    ReginKarlssonLehner Let's Win It All

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    32,112
    Likes Received:
    1,045
    Trophy Points:
    139
    I don't think Spezza is a bad captain. I just think that this team is at a stage where they need a captain who leads by example, tries his best every shift, will do whatever it takes to motivate the team. A Landeskog/Bergeron/Zetterberg. Only player I see that on Ottawa's side now is Ryan.

    Something Alfredsson would do consistently last year whenever we would play like **** his line would come out and calm everything down and stop the bombardment.

    Now, besides that, Spezza is playing the worst hockey of his career which really doesn't help. I believe time is needed to sort things out. However, if Spezza's play doesn't improve, I fear it's not cause he can't handle the leadership but that it's cause his play is being dragged down due to injuries finally catching up to him.

    It remains to be seen. Gimme another 20 games to make a proper judgement.

    I also think Murray will try to bring in a veteran guy to help Spezza out. Lol @ Phillips and Neil as leaders when they can barely keep hold of their roster spots.
     
  15. bert

    bert Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    17,177
    Likes Received:
    1,743
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Home Page:
    To an extent yes, I think this is a very immature group with the losses of Alfredsson and Gonchar its been tough. I think that certain leaders despite being very young aren't totally into it either, that trickles down.


    Are you kidding? The coach has had this team pre pared to play for the last two seasons, its on them to show up. They haven't!!!

    Player scrutiny? A sense of entitlement is what I get from a large part of the group. The Jared Cowen hold out to me is just mind blowing... What has he ever done? Who does this guy think he is? He got out of his last year of his contract with a loup hole then he holds out.

    These players that were just happy to be in the NHL two years ago have an unwarranted arrogance to them that just stinks. It stinks in their play, easy passes constantly missed, dumb decisions with the puck and without. Wreaks of a team of privileged youngsters with not enough true leadership to hold them accountable. They don't care so they don't show up ready to go. That's on Melnyk the Alfredsson fiasco is his fault, and he wouldn't pay Gonchar.

    Look at the players that have impressed this year and last. Its been the new faces because they come from serious organizations and know what its like to be moved around or out of a job. I think the bingo group needs a wakeup call one of them should be traded maybe two. Then it might sink in this is a business and a professional sports league.

    Alfie and Gonchar are two huge pieces, maybe they aren't vocal in the room but they sure do play the game right. They are calm veterans something this team does not have. They both make the game look easy, I don't see one player doing that this season.

    Its not that I think Spezza, Neil and Phillips are doing a bad job they are doing the best job they are capable of, they just need some support.
     
  16. Nac Mac Feegle

    Nac Mac Feegle wee & free

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    27,058
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    190
    To be honest, this team has been inconsistent since 1992-93.

    Before Alfredsson.
    Before Spezza.

    I don't know what the root cause of it is anymore. Different arenas, different owners, different management, different coaches, different players...hell, even a different fanbase now.
     
  17. NyQuil

    NyQuil Not Steve Yzerman

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    63,142
    Likes Received:
    8,278
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    The 2003 team was about as consistent a team as I've ever seen, anywhere.
     
  18. Huston

    Huston Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,219
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Architecture
    Location:
    London
    The team was inconsistent and undisciplined with Alfredsson. We like to blame the refs for years and years, but no, it is because the Sens are undisciplined, and a part of inconsistency his how the team reacts to teams lower on the rankings. Like Philly or Columbus, or Edmonton. Then they play a teams like Detroit or Boston and win. It is this sort of inconsistency that has been around for years.
     
  19. Huston

    Huston Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,219
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Architecture
    Location:
    London
    I miss that team...
     
  20. Very Stable Genius

    Very Stable Genius #WeLostOurKarlssons

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    13,905
    Likes Received:
    888
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Chicago
    Too much of a country club atmosphere, everyone has gotten their contracts so its time to relax. Scary thing is no one is hold these slackers accountable. Cowen, Greening, Wiercioch etc...
     
  21. Huston

    Huston Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,219
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Architecture
    Location:
    London
    Why aren't other teams like that then? They have their big comfy contracts too.
     
  22. ChocolateLeclaire

    ChocolateLeclaire Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,042
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Clearly that leadership is what is propelling Detroit to the top of the standings. *Checks standings* Hmmm...lost 7 straight....

    Some of you fans might be too young to remember the first years of Alfredsson's captaincy but the same complaints you're making now about Spezza "lazy! lack of heart! never shows up in the clutch!" were the same complaints leveled at our false god.

    This team is missing leadership however, it's just that to believe we need Alfredsson's unique brand of leadership is ridiculous. He was as much to blame for the crappy seasons as he deserves credit for the good ones.
     
  23. SenzZen

    SenzZen Now Let's See

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,614
    Likes Received:
    1,258
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Occupation:
    Ziggy = Too Preachy
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Spezza is a bad captain, but sadly the most obvious choice we had.

    I'm with OP to the extent that I don't think the dust has settled from Alfie's departure yet.

    And yes, I'm aware that Alfie wasn't the picture-perfect captain, either. But he was someone you could depend on night in, night out in terms of effort level.
     
  24. Very Stable Genius

    Very Stable Genius #WeLostOurKarlssons

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    13,905
    Likes Received:
    888
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm sure its a league wide problem, but we don't have to surrounding talent to make up for it.
     
  25. Quo

    Quo ...

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7,524
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    hack
    Location:
    Hamsterdam
    On Measuring Intangibles in Hockey

    We are still a very young team, with a brand new captain. I don't think instant success should be one of our demands.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"