Lack of Center depth?

[Albus Dumbledore]

Sorry for the click bait title, I meant in terms of drafting and having prospects
we have drafted 5 centers in the last 4 drafts and one was a no-brainer, and the ones we did draft weren't exactly high picks.

Auston Matthews(1st overall)
Semyon Der-Arguchinstev(mid 3rd round)
Riley Stotts(late 3rd round)
Adam Brooks(early 4th round)
Ryan McGregor(6th round)

Brooks is definitely an interesting prospects but thats about it, we seem to draft far too many wingers and dman. I know this isnt an issue but just seems weird and would be nice to know we have a good centers coming up. As for the cut off date I just chose 2015 to now because thats when Dubas and Hunter(although he left) were apart of the drafts. Any thoughts on this? Some center prospects you would have liked these last few years? Personally in 2016 I wanted Kyrou for example and we drafted korshkov, who seems like a fine winger in his own right nothing against the pick.

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[Morbo]

Before Matthews Kadri was the last really good centre we drafted, and that was a while ago now. Historically we haven't done well there either obviously. guys like Perreault Boyes and Stajan are the highlights of our centre drafting in recent decades.

 

[A1LeafNation]

We don't have to worry about a top 6 center for 7 years.

If we don't have some centers coming up in about 4-5 years then we worry.

 

[hector morrison]

Before Matthews Kadri was the last really good centre we drafted, and that was a while ago now. Historically we haven't done well there either obviously. guys like Perreault Boyes and Stajan are the highlights of our centre drafting in recent decades.

Yup,you are correct...it's been sub par as far as the league goes. That said,the Leafs aren't gonna need any 'high end 'centers for a while,as they would likely just rot on the vine. Start gettin ' those two-way kids,preferably with size and no sense of humor.

 

[MyBudJT]

Vladislav Kara and posibly Pontus Holmberg plays C as well.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kyrou is a RW now so that wouldn't have solved much anyways.

It's not a big deal. It's not like the Leafs need centers, and they have those guys plus Gauthier, Aaltonen and Joshua. Considering the Leafs are going to be cycling through wingers and defensemen faster than centers in the future, it does make some sense that they do not have an overwhelming number of center prospects. They should add some more, but they brought in two this year (both within our top 4 picks too) so it's not like they are ignoring them or anything.

Although I have a feeling McGregor and SDA will end up as wingers in the NHL before they would end up centers.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Vladislav Kara and posibly Pontus Holmberg plays C as well.

Kara is a LW. I looked it up, and since he's made the VHL/KHL, he's taken like 10 draws over two years, so he's probably not even the guy that draws in when his center gets kicked out. Holmberg also likely does not end up as a center in the NHL, because then you would consider guys like Trevor Moore a center as well.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Kyrou is a RW now so that wouldn't have solved much anyways.

It's not a big deal. It's not like the Leafs need centers, and they have those guys plus Gauthier, Aaltonen and Joshua. Considering the Leafs are going to be cycling through wingers and defensemen faster than centers in the future, it does make some sense that they do not have an overwhelming number of center prospects. They should add some more, but they brought in two this year (both within our top 4 picks too) so it's not like they are ignoring them or anything.

Although I have a feeling McGregor and SDA will end up as wingers in the NHL before they would end up centers.

yeah i thought he was a c/rw but still hes looking like a gem right about now. Also Aaltonen was gone back to the K.
we barely have a 4th line c let alone anything behind that it just all seems weird. I mean like i said the centers we did draft werent high picks even if they were 3rd rounders, other then matthews our last real first 2 round center was gauthier ouch.

 

[93LEAFS]

Finding good centers outside the top 10 of the draft tends to be pretty challenging. It'd be nice to have solid depth, but I can't complain too much. We have two franchise centers, we spent 7 years or so just wanting one. We have a solid 1b/2a guy who can score 30 goals and take tough match-ups. There's also Marleau and Nylander who at a minimum should be able to fill in.

This year's draft looks pretty deep at the dot. So, maybe we can get a promising one in the 20's.

If you look at teams around the league and look at their top 6 centers you don't find many drafted outside the first, with a significant portion of them being in the top 10. Every one of our top 9 centers was taken 8th overall or higher. For whatever reason, they are more identifiable, and tend to be drafted at the top. Compare that to defenders where multiple elite guys are taken on the 2nd day of the draft, wingers where there are more elite ones taken post-1st, but not to the extent of D, and then there is goalies who are the absolute wildcard.

I mean, how many promising centers have we passed on in the spots we drafted? 2017 we passed on Thomas who is doing well, but far from proven. We took Marner over Barzal (and if you want to be optimistic about him you could add Zacha), we took Nylander and the only promising center taken after him is Point (close to 90 picks later). 2013 we took Gauthier, but it is not like any good centers were taken after him. 2012 we took Rielly, and no real elite centers taken after him. While I think you need to generally go BPA, its why teams like the Habs and Coyotes (and previously the Blue Jackets) reached for centers in the top 5, because they know its almost impossible to find good ones elsewhere.

 

[Boutette]

Nylander can play center if there's an injury. And there's Lindberg whose currently pencilled in as a 5-8 minuter.

Cracknell, Greening and Gauthier can be emergency 4th line centers if need be, all of which have NHL experience. The team also signed three or so NCAA centers 22-23 years olds to AHL contracts along with former 2015 5th round pick Matt Bradley. One or two who might turn out to be late bloomers and hold the fort with Brooks until SDA and Stotts show what they are capable of or a NCAA or a European/Russian gets the teams attention.

23 year old NCAAer Brady Ferguson, for instance, has scored 107 pts (42 goals) in 79 games in the NCAA over the last couple years, plays PP and PK and owned a 57% face off percentage last year. Didn't look out of place on the Marlies on his ATO when he picked up 4 pts in 5 games. Could surprise this fall.

Center depth isn't one of our big worries, seriously. Drafting isn't the only way to find a 3rd/4th line center. Its not like we'll need anything higher for that for the forseeable future.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I have been a big proponent of this topic of late. I too have been a bit curious as to why we have been really loading up on wingers and the centres have been thin. I realize you dress less centres, but it's also a far more important position.

The signing of Tavares has made me back up from this though, as now we truly don't have to worry about our elite centre depth. Also good to see us drafting two centres in SDA and Stotts this year.

I think the thing with us is, we never seem to have that Morgan Frost, Sam Steel, Robert Thomas type. Guys who were taken late 1stish and profile as the prototypical 2nd line centre. (Gauthier aside, even though he was taken in that spot, he never profiled that high). We either take a top 10 guy (Matthews, Kadri) or take lower tier unknowns (McKegg, Verhaeghe, Brooks).

With the 2018 draft coming before Tavares, I was down for taking the type of centre I mentioned earlier (2nd line profile) in Veleno, Wise, Thomas, Dellandrea, McLeod, Kupari, O'Brien etc... It just seems like we haven't had this type of propsect since Boyes, Steen and Stajan.

 

[93LEAFS]

I have been a big proponent of this topic of late. I too have been a bit curious as to why we have been really loading up on wingers and the centres have been thin. I realize you dress less centres, but it's also a far more important position.

The signing of Tavares has made me back up from this though, as now we truly don't have to worry about our elite centre depth. Also good to see us drafting two centres in SDA and Stotts this year.

I think the thing with us is, we never seem to have that Morgan Frost, Sam Steel, Robert Thomas type. Guys who were taken late 1stish and profile as the prototypical 2nd line centre. (Gauthier aside, even though he was taken in that spot, he never profiled that high). We either take a top 10 guy (Matthews, Kadri) or take lower tier unknowns (McKegg, Verhaeghe, Brooks).

With the 2018 draft coming before Tavares, I was down for taking the type of centre I mentioned earlier (2nd line profile) in Veleno, Wise, Thomas, Dellandrea, McLeod, Kupari, O'Brien etc... It just seems like we haven't had this type of propsect since Boyes, Steen and Stajan.

The thing here is, we need to see if those guys stay at the dot full-time as pros. So many centers get moved to the wings as they progress. It is hard to tell who is going to 100% stay at the dot. You only really can tell on guys who are clearly very elite (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, etc). Look at how high guys like Bennett and Reinhart were viewed at, and both are probably wingers long-term in the NHL. So, sometimes you have to question how big a lock is a guy to stay at the dot, and is that worth a value discount (such as Kotkaniemi and Hayton this year).

Most teams 2nd line center is still a fairly high draft pick.

 

[Fogelhund]

The team in the NHL that might have the greatest C depth, and we have a thread about the concern of lack of C depth. Ok, I get it, after the two elite C's, that are #1C's on any team, and a 1c/2C... yes, we have question marks. Basically, we have questions, around that 6-8 minutes we have left for a C... I mean, we only have Par Lindhom, one of the best C's not in the NHL, trying for that C spot. Or the Goat... , or Jooris... plus whomever we invite as a PTO.

 

[MagicalRazor]

One of my buddies from school is a scout for the Barrie colts , he is so high on Der-Arguchintsev He's got him locked in as high end talent he promises me that this one was one of the best picks in the draft . he told me his comparable is low end Marner , and if he can bring half of what marner brings i'd be happy . Hes booking him a Second line center all day . His biggest strengths are his hockey IQ , Passing , Skating , and able to play with and without the puck are his biggest strengths,. He also played on one of the worst teams in the OHL last year . Only 2 people on his team had more points than him on the petes last year , 2 Over ager's a 21 year old and a 20 year old . He was also the youggest player in the NHL draft , as well as second youngest player on his team to play a full season last year.

I think he's a decent pick .

Brooks had a garbage AHL next year i'm unsure about him He really has to prove his self this year , i fear he might be one of the those players who tare up JR but never are able to transfer it over to the pros.

McGregor & Stotts i have no opinion on so i can't give any info or even say anything because i have 0 idea about these 2 young men . But im not worried about lack of cetner depth at all when you have AM signed for 9 years ( 1 this year on his ELC + 8 MAX next contract ) . J.T for 7 years , and kadri for another 4 we have the next 4 years to draft a 3'd line center , and the next 7 to draft or try and develop / trade for a 1/2 center like this isn't worry sum at all

 

[Gabriel426]

Don’t think it is an issue now with the signing of JT.

Beside, Willie can also play as C when needed.

Having said that, it is always good to have good C depth as it is much easier for a C to play wing than vice versa.

 

[Advanced stats]

As much as you're not supposed to draft for need, you kind of do have to as well.

With Matthews and Kadri in the fold( and Tavares now) drafting a top 6 center was unnecessary when those positions were under virtual lock for the next 5 years, and now under lock for the next 7 seasons.

With openings on the defensive end, drafting equally valued defensemen makes much more sense.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I mean, we only have Par Lindhom, one of the best C's not in the NHL, trying for that C spot.

Yes, Lindholm and Aaltonen should at least get mentioned in this conversation.

 

[Clark4Ever]

We have arguably the best 1-2-3 punch in the league for the next several years. There's lots of time to draft and develop centres in the coming years.

 

[Mess]

In junior the most talented players usually centre. When its much easier to move a C to the W to play an easier position with less responsibilities but rarely do you move wingers into the centre spot unless they've had extensive time in the middle in the past.

Leafs draft tendencies inexplicably have been drafting wingers with many of the small variety. This creates a hole in your prospect pool and hurts your depth.

Luckily Leafs have the best 1-3 punch in the league perhaps and so its not as big a concern.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Finding good centers outside the top 10 of the draft tends to be pretty challenging. It'd be nice to have solid depth, but I can't complain too much. We have two franchise centers, we spent 7 years or so just wanting one. We have a solid 1b/2a guy who can score 30 goals and take tough match-ups. There's also Marleau and Nylander who at a minimum should be able to fill in.

This year's draft looks pretty deep at the dot. So, maybe we can get a promising one in the 20's.

If you look at teams around the league and look at their top 6 centers you don't find many drafted outside the first, with a significant portion of them being in the top 10. Every one of our top 9 centers was taken 8th overall or higher. For whatever reason, they are more identifiable, and tend to be drafted at the top. Compare that to defenders where multiple elite guys are taken on the 2nd day of the draft, wingers where there are more elite ones taken post-1st, but not to the extent of D, and then there is goalies who are the absolute wildcard.

I mean, how many promising centers have we passed on in the spots we drafted? 2017 we passed on Thomas who is doing well, but far from proven. We took Marner over Barzal (and if you want to be optimistic about him you could add Zacha), we took Nylander and the only promising center taken after him is Point (close to 90 picks later). 2013 we took Gauthier, but it is not like any good centers were taken after him. 2012 we took Rielly, and no real elite centers taken after him. While I think you need to generally go BPA, its why teams like the Habs and Coyotes (and previously the Blue Jackets) reached for centers in the top 5, because they know its almost impossible to find good ones elsewhere.

Great observation that I couldn't agree with more. The Leafs have also noticed this trend (or market inefficiency) of more Dmen outside the top 10 or so picks becoming impactful players. In the last two drafts both 1st and 2nd rounders were used on D. D are also becoming more impactful at a younger age then they use to with how the NHL has evolved.

As you noted Nylander was drafted as a C and on a lot of teams would likely have already been playing C.

There's also simply taking best player available and every draft being different. In the last two draft we took a C with our 3rd and 4th picks.

It's great to say we drafted a C but if that player never amounts to anything who cares? Gauthier was drafted as a C but his upside never really justified his draft position. I'd have been happier with them going for a D or winger who actually had upside.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yes, Lindholm and Aaltonen should at least get mentioned in this conversation.

Aaltonen went back to Europe.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Aaltonen went back to Europe.

Darn. Forgot about that.