LA Times:Serious talks going on to save the NHL

[RangerBoy]

From Helene Elliott and Chris Foster

About a dozen influential owners, general managers, players and agents held "serious" discussions Sunday to shape a new labor agreement and save the NHL season but were losing a battle with the clock, a source familiar with the talks said.

The source said the group, whose members he declined to identify, hoped to "construct a framework they can present jointly to the players' association and the league in hope it can get them to sit down and put something together." However, the source said, "they might just find time ran out."

One source said a large contingent of players held a conference call early last week and that Dallas Star forward Bill Guerin, a union vice president and member of its negotiating committee, grew "agitated." Guerin accused other players of caving under owners' pressure to accept a salary cap and said they could have reached a similar deal in September — and then hung up.

Billy,Billy,Billy...What a punk!

Another source said a group of players, frustrated with the stalemate, had called Goodenow on Saturday to express concern about losing the season. "They tried to speak with Bob and say, 'This isn't the road we want to go down,' " the source said.

Goodenow apparently was unmoved

http://www.latimes.com/sports/print...oll=la-headlines-pe-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true

If this thing ends with cancellation,it will be fascinating to see the players reaction because some of them STILL think the NHL will cave and refuse to believe the NHL will pull the plug

Click to read more...

 

[chiavsfan]

Bill Guerin is the poster boy for this lock-out. Big money, big talk...no production

 

[Isles72]

players are about to be ambushed

good job bob , at least you have your pride to hang on to .

bring on the impasse already

 

[RangerBoy]

Bill Guerin is the poster boy for this lock-out. Big money, big talk...no production

Chris Chelios

"It's just a rotten deal they are offering us," Chelios said. "Sometimes life isn't fair. We're going to try to fight this." He maintains a bit of optimism. "I really don't see how they can throw away a whole season," Chelios said of Bettman and the owners. "I can see them push it right to the edge and get as much as they possibly can."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/14/sports/hockey/14hockey.html?pagewanted=2&oref=login

Chelly is in denial

Mark Parrish

"It can't just end like this," Islanders forward Mark Parrish said yesterday. "There's got to be a push somewhere." Parrish then pleaded with Bettman to "show us a sign you're human."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/ny-spnhl0214,0,3106584.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Nice comment Mark

 

[Greschner4]

Chris Chelios

"It's just a rotten deal they are offering us," Chelios said. "Sometimes life isn't fair. We're going to try to fight this." He maintains a bit of optimism. "I really don't see how they can throw away a whole season," Chelios said of Bettman and the owners. "I can see them push it right to the edge and get as much as they possibly can."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/14/sports/hockey/14hockey.html?pagewanted=2&oref=login

Chelly is in denial

Mark Parrish

"It can't just end like this," Islanders forward Mark Parrish said yesterday. "There's got to be a push somewhere." Parrish then pleaded with Bettman to "show us a sign you're human."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/ny-spnhl0214,0,3106584.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Nice comment Mark

Hey Mark: Profit sharing, cap up from 32 to 42, willingness to play at least two years UNDER YOUR OFFER.

Pretty "human" to me.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Hey Mark: Profit sharing, cap up from 32 to 42, willingness to play at least two years UNDER YOUR OFFER.

Pretty "human" to me.

Parrish plays for the Isles, I think that's more man than anybody else so his standards might be up there

 

[chiavsfan]

I think it's time the players have someone pinch themselves, and WAKE THE HECK UP! I still haven't heard how their December 9th proposal works, or WHY a cap wouldn't work. They keep crabbing that they don't want to play under a cap, but no one has ever stepped up and told us why it wouldn't work.

The players continue to show that they are an un-educated bunch of idiots.

 

[mudcrutch79]

I think it's time the players have someone pinch themselves, and WAKE THE HECK UP! I still haven't heard how their December 9th proposal works, or WHY a cap wouldn't work. They keep crabbing that they don't want to play under a cap, but no one has ever stepped up and told us why it wouldn't work.

The players continue to show that they are an un-educated bunch of idiots.

Work to what end? The players felt that their proposal would give owners the ability to make money if they ran their team like a business. The sides have different goals right now, so it's easy for the NHL to say that the players offer won't work. It won't save the morons from themselves, which is apparently where the bar has been set.

 

[GKJ]

The players employ Goodenow. If he's not doing what they want, they are the ones who have to get rid of him.

 

[shadoz19]

Hey Mark: Profit sharing, cap up from 32 to 42, willingness to play at least two years UNDER YOUR OFFER.

Pretty "human" to me.

Nothin but a PR move...

 

[GG#60]

Chris Chelios

"It's just a rotten deal they are offering us," Chelios said. "Sometimes life isn't fair. We're going to try to fight this." He maintains a bit of optimism. "I really don't see how they can throw away a whole season," Chelios said of Bettman and the owners. "I can see them push it right to the edge and get as much as they possibly can."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/14/sports/hockey/14hockey.html?pagewanted=2&oref=login

Chelly is in denial

Mark Parrish

"It can't just end like this," Islanders forward Mark Parrish said yesterday. "There's got to be a push somewhere." Parrish then pleaded with Bettman to "show us a sign you're human."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/ny-spnhl0214,0,3106584.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Nice comment Mark

Wow, this leaves me speechless once again.. "sometimes life isn't fair" ?? ***** millionaires

 

[chara]

Chris Chelios

"It's just a rotten deal they are offering us," Chelios said. "Sometimes life isn't fair. We're going to try to fight this." He maintains a bit of optimism. "I really don't see how they can throw away a whole season," Chelios said of Bettman and the owners. "I can see them push it right to the edge and get as much as they possibly can."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/14/sports/hockey/14hockey.html?pagewanted=2&oref=login

Chelly is in denial

Mark Parrish

"It can't just end like this," Islanders forward Mark Parrish said yesterday. "There's got to be a push somewhere." Parrish then pleaded with Bettman to "show us a sign you're human."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/ny-spnhl0214,0,3106584.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Nice comment Mark

Let's ask Mr. Chelios if he wants to invest in a small-medium sized NHL team.

As an INVESTOR, he would want the following assurances:

1. Positive net revenue (i.e. some kind of 'linkage' between revenues and expenses)

2. Ability to compete in the marketplace (i.e. all teams playing at the same level financially...hmmm sounds like a cap)

 

[ladybugblue]

Chris Chelios

"It's just a rotten deal they are offering us," Chelios said. "Sometimes life isn't fair. We're going to try to fight this." He maintains a bit of optimism. "I really don't see how they can throw away a whole season," Chelios said of Bettman and the owners. "I can see them push it right to the edge and get as much as they possibly can."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/14/sports/hockey/14hockey.html?pagewanted=2&oref=login

Chelly is in denial

Mark Parrish

"It can't just end like this," Islanders forward Mark Parrish said yesterday. "There's got to be a push somewhere." Parrish then pleaded with Bettman to "show us a sign you're human."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/ny-spnhl0214,0,3106584.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Nice comment Mark

So why has the NHLPA made only ONE proposal and ZERO counter proposals since the lockout started?? All they are doing is pissing off the fans...remember us the ones that play your salaries!!

 

[Egil]

The PA Dec 9th proposal, like the Owner trigger points, is a JOKE.

The players proposal changed, for practical purposes, 3 things from the current CBA, besides the rollback. The players put in a luxury tax, lowered the inflationary aspect of QO (but NEVER deflationary) land offered owners a VERY limited power to claw a players salarie back through arbitration.

A 20% luxury tax was going to be applied at 64.2% of STATED league revenue
A 50% luxury tax was going to be applied at 71.4% of STATED league revenue
A 60% luxury tax was going to be applied at 85.7% of STATED league revenue

Now, lets just suppose the NHL is understating its revenue by 10% (which would be about double the difference between the NHL numbers and Forbes, for example).

Then,

A 20% luxury tax was going to be applied at 58.4% of STATED league revenue + 10%
A 50% luxury tax was going to be applied at 64.9% of STATED league revenue + 10%
A 60% luxury tax was going to be applied at 77.9% of STATED league revenue + 10%

Basically, the Luxury tax as laid out by the players is a complete joke.

Next, the change to QO would lower the inflationary point to $1 mil from $1.37 mil (average league salary * 0.76). But their is STILL no way to lower a players salarie through the QO

Finally, the ONLY tool that the NHLPA gave the NHL to lower a RFA's salary is arbitration. A player could only have this done to them once in their career, and a club can only do this once a year, and no more than 2 times in 3 years (so VERY limited). This would allow a RFA like Paul Karyia to have his salary lowered, ONCE.

Now, if the PA is serious about its dec 9th offer, then were are the changes to it? WHere is a easy to use tool for ownership to reduce the salary of a group II FA when it should be lowered? As it currently stands, the PA NEEDS to make a better offer, it is their turn. It doesn't need to involve a Cap, or Linkage, or whatever, but it NEEDS to try to adress the concerns of the NHL with respect to the current framework. And the BEST offer so far from the PA doesn't even do that.

 

[Icey]

Let's ask Mr. Chelios if he wants to invest in a small-medium sized NHL team.

As an INVESTOR, he would want the following assurances:

1. Positive net revenue (i.e. some kind of 'linkage' between revenues and expenses)

2. Ability to compete in the marketplace (i.e. all teams playing at the same level financially...hmmm sounds like a cap)

Find me a business that assures a postivive net revenue and I'll sign up in a hearbeat.

Just because you own a NHL team don't assure you a positive net revenue. You actually have to do a little work and make some smart business decisons and that is the problem. Too many owners want to just sit back and watch the money roll in, and that doesn't happen in the NHL nor any other business you own.

Welcome to life.

 

[chiavsfan]

Well for PA's sake, I hope they know that the only way they get a decent deal is to get it done now. Every year after this, the deals get smaller and smaller, then you'll really hear some whining and crabbing

 

[john g]

Find me a business that assures a postivive net revenue and I'll sign up in a hearbeat.

Just because you own a NHL team don't assure you a positive net revenue. You actually have to do a little work and make some smart business decisons and that is the problem. Too many owners want to just sit back and watch the money roll in, and that doesn't happen in the NHL nor any other business you own.

Welcome to life.

True - but on the flipside, a normal employee can get fired for lack of production, or a laid-off with minimal compensation. Both sides live in a fantasy land.

 

[Vomiting Kermit*]

The players are ****ing idiots.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Find me a business that assures a postivive net revenue and I'll sign up in a hearbeat.

Just because you own a NHL team don't assure you a positive net revenue. You actually have to do a little work and make some smart business decisons and that is the problem. Too many owners want to just sit back and watch the money roll in, and that doesn't happen in the NHL nor any other business you own.

Welcome to life.

Again, hockey is rather unique among businesses as it is a partnership as well as a competitive environment. But the mutual reliance among teams makes the standard business models a bit 'off.' Now it could be argued, or not, that some of the poorer sisters among the family may not be necessary for the model to suceed, however what is not debatable is that there are only 5 or 6 markets that are so large that they can throw the entire 'partnership' out of whack for the others destroying the market for everyone, big and small, as television will never offer any kind of contract to a 5 team 'sport.' Therefore the business models above are innacurate on their face based on the nature of the business.

 

[Chayos]

Work to what end? The players felt that their proposal would give owners the ability to make money if they ran their team like a business. The sides have different goals right now, so it's easy for the NHL to say that the players offer won't work. It won't save the morons from themselves, which is apparently where the bar has been set.

The problem with your logic is that the few "idiots" in NY, Det, Col, Dal, Tor and Philly set the market for the other 24 teams. These other teams now have to deal witha system where the player get to say hey the market for my services just went up because player "a" just got $5 million for that 45 point season he had so that is what i am worth now.

Under you logic it would be better for teh players if the league gave in to the players and shrunk to a 6 team league and then the players coul make as much as they wanted. Yup all 175 player left with a job could make big money!

Nice logic!

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

The problem with your logic is that the few "idiots" in NY, Det, Col, Dal, Tor and Philly set the market for the other 24 teams. These other teams now have to deal witha system where the player get to say hey the market for my services just went up because player "a" just got $5 million for that 45 point season he had so that is what i am worth now.

Under you logic it would be better for teh players if the league gave in to the players and shrunk to a 6 team league and then the players coul make as much as they wanted. Yup all 175 player left with a job could make big money!

Nice logic!

this just is a cliche ... what 45 point non UFA player has been paid 5m ? can you name 2 ?

dr

 

[Wolfpack]

this just is a cliche ... what 45 point non UFA player has been paid 5m ? can you name 2 ?

dr

Even though it is difficult to find a RFA player who scored only 45 points signing for $5 million, there are dozens of examples of RFA players who had a couple of good seasons then getting $5 million+. The really big RFA contracts that come to mind are Pavel Bure, Jerome Iginla, Eric Lindros, Joe Sakic, Paul Kariya, Chris Pronger - superstar players, but still only RFA's. Those players were not even impending UFA's when they signed their big deals. I LMAO whenever I hear people claim that players only really "cash-in" once they become UFA's. Give me a break.

The direction things were headed with the previous CBA, RFA Ilya Kovalchuk would be asking for $5 million+ on his next contract. If ATL didn't want to pay it, he'd hold out. Anyone who thinks that strategy is good for the league or good for ATL needs to give their head a shake. It's good for Kovalchul and his greedy agent - that's it.